Microsoft Origami "Lifestyle PC"

[MarcelV]

Now I am lost in 5 pqages of reading. Is M$ having the surprise press event on the 28th or not? If so, they are trying to take away some of the Apple press thunder, no doubt about that. And I am not sure, like others on this forum, that MS Origami will only be a concept product. The concept was out there for a long time and showed by Gates and Co before. Both Gates and Jobs acknowledged that M$ would relase products relatively soon to attack the iPod line. Head to head on just music, M$ knows it has lost the battle. So, they need to change the landscape, moving to an all-in-one device. Take some of their partners, like Samsung, that can release pretty well designed products, they may be able to introduce the Origami within a month, and it will not look like the product in the video.
I really don't think M$ is introducting the concept; they have done that before.

 

[Hattig]

As I wrote elsewhere, 'meh'.

I'm sure it'll be a reasonably good device, functionality wise.

It might even be a good price.

I'm sure there'll be a demand somewhere.

But it'll take another company to make it popular. It may be Apple, with a Mac OS X based MFCD (Multi-Function Computing Device), it may be Nokia, or Palm, or it could be some other company we never imagined.

If it's anything like PocketPC, then they can shove it. I've never used software that was so poor, or which exposed so much of the inner workings. PalmOS was, from a user perspective, far better (although the innards were a complete mess). I think Nokia's Series 80 platform could do well, as well as Nokia's Linux based tablet software.

 

[(L)]

What I believe we are missing is a real portable device that can do something more than an ipod.

A portable computer as we know them now are only "transportable" computers. You can lug them around but you need to sit down to use them.
The ipod is portable but has no input mechanisme and although is is able to show you video or adress data and such it is not very handy for it.

I'd like a somewhat bigger device that is concepted as a data exhange device.

Actually, I rather disagree. Yes, the iPod has only the clickwheel as an input device, but when you consider it is designed for portability and on the go use, no major input devices that require you to stop moving should be put in it. What you say about "transportable" computers would still apply to anything that you have to stop and put input in - that is WHY people sit down to use laptops, not because they are big, etc. Even a 5" ultra portable would need you to sit still to use it. Dealing with data exchange and communication is no different in that regard. However, you'll probably get something close to what you want. As revolutionary crystal memory and such come out, computers will get lighter and lighter...maybe the optical drive would be embedded in the screen, not under the keyboard, and the keyboard would be a super sensitive sheet, instead of springy keys, and laptops will be the thickness of the current powerbooks' screens, but protected by carbon fiber casing for durability. No moving parts, perhaps. Toss it in the air, why don't you, it won't break.... 10 day battery life. You'll still stop to use it, but it'll weigh a quarter of a pound and fit in any briefcase with no problem. If you didn't stop to use these things, you'd run into poles.

 

[Yvan256]

Microsoft already has manufacturers with sub-notebooks... Such as the Sony Vaio U1 Subnotebook (okay, not the official page, but it does have a hand in the picture to give us an idea of the size).

What's Origami? A new Windows version + platform specs?

If it's meant to be ultra-portable, à-la-iPod, there's already the OQO.

So, what is this "Origami" thing supposed to be?

Apple is the one missing a sub-notebook and a PDA here...

As for using a stylus on a touch-screen, I recently bought Meteos for my Nintendo DS. After playing for an hour, I went back to my Mac. That was one of the most weird feeling ever, like using my mouse was out-of-touch, not connected to the cursor on the screen... Like "using a gamepad to mouse a cursor around" experience... Hard to describe, best way to say it would be "not natural" (and yes I know the word "natural" doesn't fit computers).

 

[alywa]

I actually think this thing looks pretty cool. Many of us have said that we want a "iBook Mini" or an iTablet. Well, that's pretty much what this thing is, just from the MS camp.

The question is: Do the masses really want this product? I agree with most everyone that it is too big to replace the iPod / possible vPod. Kinda like the huge Day Planners from the early 1990's, this thing is just too big to fit into a pocket, and doesn't really offer anything over a laptop.

Other questions: Battery life? That's a big screen. Wireless internet / bluetooth also drains battery. For it to have a 4 hour battery life, it would need some big batteries... so the device would have to be big and heavy. Again, what does it get me that a laptop doesn't?

I'm hoping this kind of product catches on, but in the 4-5" screen form factor. 40-80GB hard drive, up to 1GB RAM, 4-6 hour battery life, completely seemless .Mac, iLife, iCal, Address Book and phone syncing. Priced at 400-600 USD. Kinda like the mockups of the video iPod, only real.

-alywa

 

[Seasought]

I half expected to hear a British woman's voice dubbed over saying "Welcome to the Umbrella Corporation..."

Creepy.

 

[BritinNC]

This is what I've been talking about...

The Origami thing is way off being a successful entry into this market, but a lot of the concept is right. I think the form factor will look more like the OQO Model 1 http://www.oqo.com/hardware/basics/ but running OSX of course. The main thing that the OQO is missing in my opinion is a PCMCIA slot so that you can do broadband wireless.

I also agree with some others here that we shouldn't expect too much from the first version of this device, it'll have some new features to it so that it is distinguished from the tablet pc, but there will be room for improvement over the next few years as well.

As an aside, I think that Steve was goading (had to look that one up in case I set off an MR spelling s**tstorm) Bill recently about the iPod when he was saying only M$ could come up with an iPod killer. I think Steve knows that there is little more that can be done with the digital music player without overloading it and ruining its raison d'etre. My guess is that he was trying to get Bill to commit to the digital music player business then slap him down with a whole new post iPod category.

Not long now...

Edit : I see someone beat me to it with the OQO link

 

[cr2sh]

Microsoft already has manufacturers with sub-notebooks... Such as the Sony Vaio U1 Subnotebook (okay, not the official page, but it does have a hand in the picture to give us an idea of the size).

The link you posted shows a price of $1899 US.

If it's meant to be ultra-portable, à-la-iPod, there's already the OQO.

Again, a staggering $1899.

So, what is this "Origami" thing supposed to be?

According to the article.... $500.

And touch screen interactive. I certainly consider tablets to be the personal computers of the future... and neither of the machines you recommended are tablets.

So to answer your question.. this machine is different because its almost 1/4 the price of the machines you quoted.... and has touch screen interface. Two huge differences, IMHO.

 

[balamw]

According to the article.... $500.

That, if true, has the potential to be the killer feature of origami vs. existing tablet PCs that could enable a killer app to finally be found.

B

 

[beatle888]

i want.......something that will fit in my glove box and can bang around in a backpack and i can pull it out on the train with ease.

sounds good but would you complain about scratches?

 

[sishaw]

A tablet needs a new killer app and I don't see it. The iPod was innovative in the ease in which songs were cataloged and transferred via iTunes. Everything I've seen or heard about a tablet just allows it to do the same old thing. But it lacks the power and ease of input of a laptop and lacks the portability of a PDA. A tablet seems to be a misfit not fitting any niche well.

Help me if I'm wrong...I don't get it.

The killer app would have to be really good handwriting recognition--I mean, the device would have to recognize handwriting as well as people do. That way, the tablet model could be satisfactory as a writing instrument and move out of niche markets.

The problem with that, though, is that there already IS a killer device for text input. It's called a keyboard. The device would have to provide an awfully good user experience to compete.

 

[lukasgardiner]

click wheel?

i'm not too clear on this but i thought i saw a click wheel in the origami video that is used pretty much the same way the ipod's click wheel is used... can they do that?

 

[beatle888]

Amen.

And at $500... I just pray the resolution isnt 600x800.

Ars Technica ties together and has a bitchin graphic:

thats a "bitchin" graphic? thats ugly fugly and looks like something from a sci-fi movie from the seventies/eighties.

 

[Hattig]

So to answer your question.. this machine is different because its almost 1/4 the price of the machines you quoted.... and has touch screen interface. Two huge differences, IMHO.

So if such a system can only be sold for $1899 today, (i.e., $1299 in a year's time), how can someone make it today for $500?

Answer: it's massively cut down.

Remember in a pen interface, the 'menu at bottom of screen' approach is the best (your hand would cover it otherwise). I guess this product will be a more powerful Windows Mobile device. Running on a fast XScale or similar ARM based product. Basically it is going to be Smartphone, but enlarged and more capable.

Alternatively, if it is a standard x86 platform, then the $500 device is going to use the cheapest components ever, that can be used in a subnotebook sized system. That's the slowest Celeron M, the cheapest integrated graphics chipset from Intel, ...

A cross-over idea is that this will use Windows XP, but recompiled for ARM. Cheaper less powerful hardware, more powerful OS.

 

[crees!]

That's some terrible typography. Typical though of MS.

 

[macgirl75]

"quicktimecast"

Does anyone know if there will be a "quicktimecast" of the event?

I know there will be live coverage at http://www.AppleNews.info

 

[MarcelV]

So if such a system can only be sold for $1899 today, (i.e., $1299 in a year's time), how can someone make it today for $500? Answer: it's massively cut down.

It also may be subsidezed to gain market share. Don't forget the mobile Halo version that shows for this thing. They may ask game developers to build for this and get license fees in return, just like Sony and M$ already doing on their current gaming consoles.

 

[SpaceMagic]

I would buy one actually!

 

[beachboy89]

ya they need to market this better to, watching that thing at the origami website felt like a horror movie about a stalker

 

[cr2sh]

So if such a system can only be sold for $1899 today, (i.e., $1299 in a year's time), how can someone make it today for $500?

Microsoft has a history of producing a piece of equipment, taking a loss and buying into the market... don't they? I thought this was standard practice with Microsoft..

I don't think OQO has the leverage of Microsoft.. and just because OQO is required to charge $1900 to produce a machine, doesn't mean Micrososft has the same costs or even makes the same poor decisions...the very idea that anyone would pay $1900 for a palm sized computer is an absurd business premise.

That's not to say MS can do magical things.. but comparing them to OQO is not accurate.

As far as typographies and bitchin graphics go... I'll admit my opnion is as dumb as yours, but if that's your major criticisim of this concept.. you got no legs. I think the retro design is intended, by the way.

 

[BritinNC]

The killer app would have to be really good handwriting recognition--I mean, the device would have to recognize handwriting as well as people do. That way, the tablet model could be satisfactory as a writing instrument and move out of niche markets.

The problem with that, though, is that there already IS a killer device for text input. It's called a keyboard. The device would have to provide an awfully good user experience to compete.

I think people write so infrequently these days that it is hard for even people to recognize their handwriting. I agree this is the most frustrating thing about tablets. My only conclusion is that this new device will not be marketed for heavy inputting of data, like a PDA, input will be available through handwriting recognition or a virtual keyboard but you wouldn't want to write a novel on it. I still see it as an extension of a mac, not a replacement.

 

[beatle888]

So shouldn't it be on engadget or something other than MR? or at least page 2.

why do people come here and bitch how the site is run? Its not your site, go conceptualize, develop, launch, advertise and maintain your own site if you dont like it here.

its your fingers that bring you here. you make the decision to visit macrumors. if you dont like the site go somewhere else, plain and simple.

this happens to be very relevant to a more sophisticated (i guess) mac enthusiast. understand that microsoft is apples only competitor when it comes to consumer OS creators. and the fact that microsoft wants to announce their lifestyle device the same day apple has been scheduled to announce "Fun new products" goes to show that microsoft (apples only consumer OS competitor) is a bit insecure, enough to feel they need to show their hand and try to steel some fire from apple.

now let arn run HIS site and you can leave us and go start conceptualizing your own.
i cant believe you dont find this interesting and would bury it on page 2. goes to show i wouldnt be typing in your url.

 

[Hattig]

It also may be subsidezed to gain market share. Don't forget the mobile Halo version that shows for this thing. They may ask game developers to build for this and get license fees in return, just like Sony and M$ already doing on their current gaming consoles.

x86 based systems will never benefit from the integration that Sony can and have done with the PSP and the current PS2 which is a console-on-a-chip that could probably run at 4x the speed than the original if they wanted.

Mobile Halo on a generic x86 $499 device that is highly integrated and shrunk down, with always-on capability, and presumably a battery life longer than 4 hours? Sorry, but even the integrated GMA950 graphics aren't that good. That means costly discrete graphics.

So we are talking about a [cut-down?] Windows XP, on a Celeron M, with at least 256MB RAM, wireless ethernet, wireless GPRS/3G, discrete graphics with their own VRAM, a display, a digital camera, storage (HD), media readers, touch screen input, mini keyboard, microphone ... under $500. And I don't think that Microsoft would want to subsidise this part of the market, this is just a platform they want other companies to make and sell products for, much like the incredibly successful tablet pc ...

 

[baddaddy]

Hardware?

Ok, I am coming into this late, and I am too lazy to read the 9,000 posts before me, but is the Evil Empire actually getting into the hardware biz???

Well if history is true then one thing is certain, Apple with come out with a unit that is cooler and will kick this thing's ass, for twice the price!

 

[Yvan256]

The link you posted shows a price of $1899 US. (The other is) a staggering $1899. According to the article (the Origami will be).... $500.

I was merely pointing these devices as form factors that Microsoft already has.

So to answer your question.. this machine is different because its almost 1/4 the price of the machines you quoted.... and has touch screen interface. Two huge differences, IMHO.

Technology always gets cheaper as time goes on. As for the touch screen, I'm not sure if both of the above devices don't have it already.