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BRLawyer said:
Sorry, but this myth has been dead long ago...Macs can perfectly talk to anything, as they use exactly the same file formats as any other PC, including .doc, pdf, .ppt et al...besides, Internet is mostly standards-based...

No one needs Windows to work (apart from tiny few specific applications or hardcore gamers), so I really don't think such considerations are relevant anymore...

yes i agree the format etc are all the same (thanks to MS office etc). But have you tried Windows XP networking? Nightmare! There will need to be software to communicate to update both calendas and things like that. Im not talking about file formats, im talking to common sense PDA things like calendas and email things etc.

I know very well Mac and Windows can talk due to the standard networking and same file formats. But we are talking about the end user here. They want a device that just plugs in and updates "just works". Drag and drop is so 1990's (in mac terms anyway ;) )

For this device to be truly successful in the Windows world it will need to act and talk 100% to a windows computer. Not just simple networking and sharing file formats. But things like updating calendas and syncing emails and things. All minor but very important things.

But im guessing Apple wont do this and they will make it mac-centric which is fine for me cos' im a mac user no probs. But all depends who is Steve's target users are.

Will a Windows user pay 500$ for this PDA plus extra you know what for the computer that will run it 100%? No.

They can buy Bill's offering for a slightly cheaper price and run it 100%.

You have misunderstood my post, i agree with you totally but we need to go furthur from that for the bussiness point of view.
 
tiiim said:
But there is a problem: 95% of computers run Windows. This new MS pda/laptop device will already be able to "talk" to most computers in the world.
An accurate point, but flawed - you can use an iPod with Windows, why couldn't you use a MacPad?

I would like one, because all my 12" powerbook is for these days is listening to music (through my iPod mind you), remote controlling my desktop, writing notes at lectures and browsing stupid Mac-based forums :p

I think I could do that in a smaller form factor.
 
hob said:
An accurate point, but flawed - you can use an iPod with Windows, why couldn't you use a MacPad?

Exactly! Steve has already done many changes to Windows iTunes to make it sync with calendas etc. So all im saying providing he gives the software there is no problems at all. Its not a major issue whatsoever.

however, and this a big however, if he makes it mac only and impossible to work with Windows then you must take his market share in account for this tablet device.

If he releases windows software no prob, if its OS X only then we do need to question how much impact will this make.:) that all im saying. I hope it "just works" with windows too so people can get a taste of the better computering experience.
 
mwidjaya said:
Your points are arguable.

Have you actually used a Pocket PC? It is just so unusably convoluted that a lot of people who have bought one just ended up putting it aside. It is definitely not the best PDA out there. Palm is better in usablity. There are more of Pocket PC simply because it is perceived to be fully compatible with Windows. So again an extension of monopoly effect from Windows.

I use Windows everyday and while that is bad enough, Pocket PC is worse.

Likewise, have you used the Media Centre? My playing around with me left me with "what is the big deal?". Nothing special about it. It is typical "good enough" approach to things.

This is not about MS bashing. This is about bashing mediocre products by a greedy, manipulative company.

Think of it this way, I use Windows at work because I am not given a choice. I use Mac at home despite of all the choices available to me.

And with that comment we can suspect that you've never used a Pocket PC either! Some people just don't know how to use computers.
 
Whistleway said:
This looks like a killer device if it is under $500 as it is rumored.

This is hilarious! MS SOOOO wants to be Apple, or at least cool. This thing is a clunker. MS always portrays people doing such "creative" tasks with their stuff, but in the end, it's a battle with dorky software and cheap plastic.

Meh.:rolleyes:
 
looking at that thing right away tells me I would never use it....Its obviously way to big, it doesnt look like the strongest thing around, and I hate windows...alot. It looks like a step behind instead of a step ahead. Im sure apple's product is going to blow bill and our minds away tomarro!
 
This microsoft product is either going to be extremely good, or extremely bad. I think they need a good product; after Windows, the Xbox and other devices that haven't really been all that great they need one killer hit to get a bit of faith back.
 
AvSRoCkCO1067 said:
ooo....sexy...

MacPad. The Center of your iLife.

BAM. :D :eek:

or... Mac ego

... the name doesn't need to represent or describe anything ala "Mac", "Macintosh", "iPod", etc.... it just needs to speak/sound right and pique your imagination.
 
raggedjimmi said:
This microsoft product is either going to be extremely good, or extremely bad. I think they need a good product; after Windows, the Xbox and other devices that haven't really been all that great they need one killer hit to get a bit of faith back.

I agree with you, but after seeing that video Im going towards extremly bad, but like anything else, some people will love it and some people will hate it.
 
Whistleway said:
This looks like a killer device if it is under $500 as it is rumored.

However good that may be, it still looks horrid. It's like a Cassiopeia EM500 got fat. Ugly. But looks very good. If Apple came up with one I'd get it.


... but realistically.

A machine that size playing Halo? Yea. I'll believe that when I see it. And have more than 1 minute battery life and no heat issues.
 
Zillatron said:
Myabe MS knows something we dont, that would be a very good reason why they are getting in first with a 'pre-release'.

Once again, I was thinking the same thing, Zillatron.

balamw said:
One thing that just struck me is that if this device really does run the full version of XP, then by design it will already be iTunes and iTMS compatible. Apple will finally have enabled someone else to compete with them in this space. :p

Oh. Man, that's a good point. But, as someone mentioned in another thread, the iPod is just ingrained in people's minds now as a must-have device. It will take a lot (perhaps a Creative lawsuit) to knock it off its pedestal, I think.

shrimpdesign said:
The day Apple releases a PDA or Tablet is the day they solve that problem. Steve Jobs wouldn't let the iPod into production until he could find a song in 5 seconds. Really, Apple wouldn't fudge the interface, that's pretty much all they obsess over.

Is that (the 5 second comment) a fact or just a myth? 'Cause if it's a fact, then it's a pretty cool one. Definitely believable.

All this talk about OS X on a small device, yadda, yadda. Well, I think they have to give the good ol' halo effect a little push and do this: make people think they're buying a high-end iPod when really they're buying an ultra-portable mac. And the hybrid iPod/PDA/tablet (or something) is just the way to do it. Don't give them too much OS X...just enough to make them think that much harder about replacing that Pentium 4 at home with an iMac.

My 20 won.

-Squire
 
tiiim said:
If he releases windows software no prob, if its OS X only then we do need to question how much impact will this make.:) that all im saying. I hope it "just works" with windows too so people can get a taste of the better computering experience.

I've had loads of problems with my 3G iPod 15GB with my Windows PC. Ive had to reformat the HDD (the PC not the iPod) about twice cos iTunes + iPod screwed it up:confused: . And I'm switching the Mac as soon as the intelBook comes out:D .

As for MS Origami, tis ugly and just a revival of TabletPC. I've never seen a tablet PC except for in shops (and then only 1 or 2).
About the MacTablets (iTab?) it would be nice to have OS X in my bag, but thats why I'm getting a laptp:D

Chris
 
Okay, this is big. At the beginning of that Origami video, the turntable is running backwards. Microsoft have perfected time travel!
 
true

kirk26 said:
I miss when MacRumors used to be a rumors site when I first joined. Those were the days.

True, seems more like a "confirmed news" site. Much like MDN, but with less flaming and more intelligent comments. :)
 
I understand the initial bad-talking of Microsoft and such, I have been at the beginning quite a few times, but really, is this not a good idea? I understand that it's not as if everyone is going to want/need one of these things, but it doesn't mean it's not a good concept that will make it into everyone's workforce eventually. I'll admit, the device is ugly as anything Microsoft has ever shown in an ad before, but it doesn't mean the concept won't grab the attention of the consumer. And it's not like they haven't done well with the ad concept: Don't show 40 year old people using this product, show 20 year olds and it will sell. We sometimes forget that there is a huge college market out there, and people outside of colleges don't understand the real competition Apple has been bringing up. You really see a mac or two for every five Windows computers here at the University of North Florida, and that even after we sell Dells via our bookstore. As a college student, I see much use in a product as such and would be highly enthralled to get my hands on one with at least slightly superior PDA skills. But as always, I will continue waiting for Apple to come out with such, I just can't have anything I own running Windows, it would break me.

One more minor note, am I the only one who thinks the case that the kid had with the keyboard was disgusting? One way to really ruin a products appeal: show it in a bad case.
 
grubesteak said:
You got that right. That video says, "Do you know me?"

Um, "No?"

"Do you know how I can change your life?"

Oh please. If something tells me it's going to change my life, it usually doesn't. But it's those things that come out from nowhere and blindside you (ahem, iPod) that make an impact.

It's amazing how all the money in the world can't buy creativity.

Yeah, I don't know why MS people have been acting like a bunch of care bears recently. Introducing Vista, they said the phrase "if you care about that" or "memories you care about" blah blah blah about caring, and yet their user interface and the organization of the info includes stuff I can't imagine anyone would care for! Lol. Creative's PMC description, Microsoft's recent software ads, and third party winders box companies' ads all act like being able to store and playback multimedia equates to General Life Betterment and A Happy Gay Time. Like, seriously, it's fun to store photos on an iPod, just because you can, but nobody makes it his hobby, right? The good thing about Apple is that they are aware of what their products are, which are usually solid, focused products that do one realm of things really well - they don't market stuff as a life betterment pill. (I am reminded of a Newton commercial, though, that seemed rather optimistic, but Apple never used language as openly shallow as the Microsoft-affiliated do today, though I think they were guilty of advertising the Newton as something greater than it was.)

The Creative site describes one of their players with such a typical description..."Live life your way with music, photos and video," and "View precious memories - tens of thousands of them," and more gushy care bear talk about how this Vision player is the next electronic Viagra or something. (Not a great comparison, but I think you get my peeve.)http://www.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=213&subcategory=214&product=12985

Apple, even, says "Browse your memories with photo slideshows," but there is a difference. The Creative site (and most other rival sites) seem to consider each and every photo to be a "precious memory," which is overly sissy. Who the heck puts 10,000 such "precious memories" in a media player to keep with them wherever they go? Maybe a young, stupid couple of new parents, but nobody sane. I mean, it's kind of like having 10,000 wallet photos. On the other hand, Apple's advertising does it right - it recognizes that the iPod has the potential to be a personal photo album in some ways, but Apple doesn't assume that every photo you put on its product will be something of a precious memory. Rather, it's a do with it what you will, but here's an example kind of approach. Plus, Apple has been true to its word in that the iPod is mainly geared at music, and therefore the company doesn't market the iPod as a do-all life enhancer, but as a really cool music player that can now take on multimedia.

I think it is fairly obvious from the stance of the competitors that few companies other than Apple have a clear idea of what consumers actually want and enjoy. MS continues to try to release cool products - they have understood that the iPod is cool - but those guys have yet to learn that the products they are up against are not simply cool, but cool for a reason. There's another difference - Apple's site describes a few things about one of their products and follows it with a reasonable conclusion (ex iPod battery life, capacity, portability, = good companion); other companies just try to force adjectives, claiming their products are gorgeous (with the unstated "like the iPod, choose us instead, please"), amazing, etc. Those are subjective decisions for the user to make, and a smart company will only claim such if it has a knack for making designer products, and still be able to back it up with more than a color (ahem, that would be Apple).

Okay, that's the end of my rant. I'm sure you all already could see this, but my point is that the companies that don't are the oafs like MS and Sony and such that have difficulty winning consumers with their products. Until they learn, their products really won't be all that great, know matter how many adjectives they can throw together.
 
Kingsly said:
They are just not doing a very good job of it.

I think they're doing a hell of a job when it becomes the topic of choice on Mac rumor sites, on the eve of an Apple special event.
 
Origami = Toy

This has probably already been said, but oh well.

"An online marketing presentation (has been pulled) depicts a small wireless tablet that offers a number of functions, including handwriting, sketching, instant messaging, GPS/mapping and gaming.
"

OK, those are all kind of toy-like. Don't you think so? Sure, GPS is great, but only if you're not in a vehicle with one and when you actually need to know where you are. In Japan, the majority of recent (since 2 or more years ago) cell phones include GPS functionality or can be equipped with it (unfortunately there are always costs). But how often do I use it? Very rarely, maybe a couple days out of a year. Handwriting is an OK thing, I guess, but it still doesn't seem zippy enough to beat paper or keyboard. Maybe it's good. But sketching, unless you are a professional that already has input pads and likes to sketch electronically, is not exactly going to be a favorite activity for the consumer (and probably not for the pro either). All in all, this thing looks like it has neat features that would rarely be useful in a productive way, and would probably boil down to a neato product for teens and young people addicted to IM and gaming. Or maybe just the geeks.

Origami kannkei ne-shiyo. Dame da korya.

Well, another plastic toy from MS. Nothing to see here, folks.
 
MacsomJRR said:
I'm having a tough time understanding the usefulness of a device somewhere in between a laptop and a pocket PC / palm pilot. I'd rather see Apple come out with a pocket PC sized device that acts a super portable addition to my mac. It does seem like the next logical step considering the size of the iPod's current hard drive and the advancements that have been made in touchscreen quality and interactivity. I'd also looooooooove a cell phone to be included in the mix as well as wireless connectivity with 3G type download speeds for mp3s, shows, and movies!

What I believe we are missing is a real portable device that can do something more than an ipod.

A portable computer as we know them now are only "transportable" computers. You can lug them around but you need to sit down to use them.
The ipod is portable but has no input mechanisme and although is is able to show you video or adress data and such it is not very handy for it.

I'd like a somewhat bigger device that is concepted as a data exhange device.
It would sync with your Mac (music, video, presentations, foto's, documents, iCall, Adressbook etc.) and you'd have limited capacity to enter data.
Foto's, movies to and from other computers or camera's,TV
Music, speech from microfoon
Alfanumeric from a one handed touch screen keyboard or handwriting recognition
It would be able to double as a remote control for TV, stereo or even toaster if you're inclined to that
You could use it to show presentations in meeting rooms wirelesly connected to a beamer.
WIFI enabled ofcourse and you link wirelesly, or via cable, other devices to it, cell phone, printers, monitors, keyboards

What it is not is a computer.
 
sam10685 said:
i thought this was 'macrumors.com', not 'microsoftnews.com'.

Well, MS is the big poop competitor, and so what they try to do makes a difference. Plus, the events are close together. Still, I think that Apple will announce a couple things that have nothing to do with this Origami thing (what a stupid name...), and the next plastic brick from MS will flop.
 
Logic in that Flash?

Pause the flash video a few seconds in where the girl is doing some editing on a desktop computer with dual LCD's. Anyone else notice the aqua interface with what looks exactly like Logic Express/Pro?

I will admit from the start I have no idea what program is running, but it looks an awful lot like Mac's GUI in the Pro department. If anyone else noticed this, let me know!

Tax return = new Mac what-ever-they-want-to-sell-me
 
killer app?

kalisphoenix said:
This doesn't look all that innovative to me. Of course, I'm blind in all three eyes, so I might have missed something, but this is what I saw:

1. A girl write a note on it.
2. A guy make a face impossibly fast on it.
3. Another guy take a picture with a camera, transfer it to the tablet, and send it to someone to be printed (or just make a note on it -- either way, it'll look stoopid hanging on the wall with "x print this" written on it).
4. A woman paint on it and use it as a remote for a media center.
5. Another guy playing games on it.
6. Another guy call up a map on it.
7. Another guy send a photo to the first girl with it.

I might be missing implicit and explicit qualities demonstrated by the video, and if so please correct me -- I feel like the only person who didn't get the joke.

A tablet needs a new killer app and I don't see it. The iPod was innovative in the ease in which songs were cataloged and transferred via iTunes. Everything I've seen or heard about a tablet just allows it to do the same old thing. But it lacks the power and ease of input of a laptop and lacks the portability of a PDA. A tablet seems to be a misfit not fitting any niche well.

Help me if I'm wrong...I don't get it.
 
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