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The surface may not be perfect but it certainly has ruffled a few feathers in the industry.

With apple abandoning their pro line a huge amount of professionals have moved on... if they are using windows workstations it makes sence to use windows portables.

Especially with how poor the newest gen MBP has been and how poorly structured the mac line up is. Full of compromise and product similarity that actually makes choosing a product extremely difficult. The forums are full of these questions and it shouldn't be this difficult.

Same with Mac OS, HS has been a joke. With most professional apps now cloud based the OS is not as integral because they offer the same experience across platforms... With apple refusing to give people tech options. These days its put up shut up or move on.

People are fed up and the latter seems the direction of a lot of people.

At least with the competition there seems to be an interest are re imagining what the laptop is and what it can do. Having a touch screen with the pen with a fully fledged OS is probably the best thing thats happened for creatives in the industry for a long time.

To get the same experience you would have to buy a full desktop machine then then buy something like a wacom cintique which are as expensive as a laptop on its own. This is such a great plus for an artist, illustrator, designer or photographer. Once you have used a machine like this its hard to go back. So much more tactile.

On the other hand you would need to buy a macbook pro and an ipad to have the same functionality on the apple side. The iPad still doesn't offer fully fledged apps, the apps it does are half baked with half the functionality meaning its not a replacement for anyone serious and yet the ipad pro is £1000 in a decent config.

Yet the macbook does everything better, better keyboard for email, word processing, it stands on its own if you want to watch in bed instead of holding it. Main thing it doesnt have a touch screen or a pen... yet anywhere you would want to use the amazing functionality of the pen and touch screen on the iPad doesnt give you the full control like a fully fledged desktop app... Because IOS is gimped. Two products that are defined by an OS and the experience but try to do the same thing... screaming to take the best bits and make a new product line.

People get hung up on the 2 in 1 tablet option in comparison to an iPad. I dont see it like that I see it as I can detach the screen and use it in scenarios where having the base isnt necessary. Like if i wanted to edit some images casually on the sofa and use the pen...

The macbook line is super stagnant.

In all honesty what extra use case has the Macbook pro offered since the line was established in 2006? It exactly the same. Nothing has changed apart from spec bumps and movement with similar technology, screens, ports etc. They have become less reliable and Apple have taken more away than added. The things they have added are gimmicks nobody asked for like the TB, then only put it on the high end products which makes adoption even slower as we all know the low end machines are the best sellers. They added the TB as an upsell, but pros spend more for more speed not gimmicks.

To add insult to injury the price has increased significantly. The worst bit is they just arent pro anymore. 3-4 years ago there would have been no question that the Macbook pro was the market gold standard, now its not so clear and its sitting in a haze of really good products some significantly less that offer similar like the Dell XPS and others like the surface that is trying something new at a similar premium price point.

Its interesting that mobile tech review made a video titled "best laptop for photoshop and lightroom" and the macbook pro in any form wasn't highlighted at all.

Simply because there are better products now and apple has sat on its laurels.

I applaud Microsoft for filling the gap and innovating where apple has left it wide open. Competition is good. The surface may not be perfect but they will crack it, they are already impressive but has the problems and bugs of a new product.

The 2006 macbook pro moved me to the mac. The surface is pushing me back. Especially when all my work machines are dell workstations because the 2013 mac pro was a joke. 5 years on there is still no option to the 2010 and 2012 mac pro.

Its a whirlpool effect... one product being missing in the line causes you to move on, being on multi platforms doesn't make much sense and apples direction doesnt fill me with confidence going forward.
 
That was a bit press-releasey. What exactly is desktop class architecture, a Retina display, an enhanced camera or an advanced sensor?

I would also contend the desktop architecture is not that good. It may have a retina display, but not one piece. Some say it may help reparability if the screen cracks, but the air gap and the light bleeding around the display doesn't say quality product. Again, lack of support for the Smart Keyboard. I would not want to be creating projects and reports typing on the screen all night.

I love Apple products, don't get me wrong, but Apple still has a long way to further mature the IPad to be about creation instead of a consumption product.
 
That sounds a lot like the overdue Surface device powered by Snapdragon for Windows. That was potentially nail in the coffin for the iPad but companies got greedy and priced it too high on release.

Just take the current 12.3" Surface Pro 4 shell and put Snapdragon for Windows inside and slap a $400 sticker on it. People will buy it up for consumption and light to medium full MS Office type productivity.

Personally, I want a 13" to 14" Surface Pro with AMD APU or Intel+Radeon IGP hybrid CPU. Also, make keyboard options with extended battery and discrete GPU. Surface Pro form factor is the best I've experienced.
 
And that's the point, people think that individuals such as myself are "fanboys" or whatever BUT the reason i choose Apple products is because i have not issues with them, for example i still use a 2011 MacBook Pro (will be upgrading to a 12" MacBook at some point) and i've literally had NO issues with it from the day i brought it. The same can be said for every iPhone and iPad i've ever brought (going back as far as the 3Gs) now either i'm extremely lucky (which i doubt) OR Apple make brilliant hardware and software that lasts.

If Microsoft were to do the same, make a Surface device that was as reliable i'm sure most people would give it a try, hell even i would try and get over my distain for Windows and try it, at this point tho i'm not willing to sacrifice my Apple products for something that is of less quality. I will say one thing for Microsoft tho the design of the Surface Pro is nice.

I was “all in” on MS for years. I tried quite a few Surfaces. I think it was around 5 or 6 devices, but I lose count because a few of them were replacement devices under warranty. I had so many usability/stability/quality issues with the non-Pro models that I could never bring myself to buy the Pro model. Restarting the Surface was easily a weekly thing due to sleep issues. I wanted so badly to like these, but I had to cut my losses. Contrast that with the Apple products I’ve owned, like our 3 year old Air that still works despite 2 cracks in the display.

For everyone poo pooing the idea I think you might have Apple-colored glasses on. This is an aggressive move by MS to staunch any effort for the iPad to really penetrate the lower tier of the "quality" tablet market. It also serve as a gateway to Surface to those who are curious about it but aren't going to fork over $700+.

Obviously we'll have to see what MS pushes out but it could give the lower end iPad a run for its money, even impact the mid-range if MS does a good job with it. For one, the entry iPad isn't compatible with the Smart Keyboard. That gives Surface a leg up right there. OTOH, if it just serves up a bucket of old parts, Apple's old parts are better than Wintels and Apple easily wins on build quality. You only get one shot at a first impression.

But as someone with zero MS hardware and a home chock full of Apple product I have to say I'll probably buy one to toy with if it retails for $300. I imagine there will be loads of Black Friday deals and bundles. But even if it doesn't pan out it puts more pressure on Apple to remain competitive in the tablet market and also take a hard look at getting iOS for iPad right.

I just have my doubts, especially with MS, who abandons products with alarming regularity. I’m honestly surprised they are attempting this again, since they couldn’t do it well with the RT devices and Surface 3–all of which cost more than $400 and felt underwhelming, even though Office worked fine on them all. I get that MS needs to make sure they don’t lose traction on Office 365, but how many people “need” advanced Office functionality on a tablet in a budget scenario? Based on previous lack of success on budget Surfaces, not very many.
 
1st comment and also surface is the best right now in the market
Best for breaking down
Display failures. (requires Device swap out)
Battery/charging failure (requires device swap out if you don't notice the issue before the battery is below 30%)
Dock failure
Russian roulette firmware updates

We have had dozens of these and every single unit has been replaced at least once. Surface Book Pro's are a better buy, apart from the GPU failures (not had a lot of those though by comparison)
 
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The surface is an awful tablet
Depends on what you want to do with your tablet - if you’re just web browsing and emailing it’s as good, and arguably better than an iPad (full web browsers vs mobile browsers) the only thing is the current pro models are very expensive for casual browsing machines. If you’re wanting to use tablet optimised software (“apps”) iPads still outcompete though often not without their own set of drawbacks - again, many iPad versions of software are cut down, you can use the full versions on a surface pro.
 
My only gripe with Surface Pro line right now it is their refresh is basically on par with Apple aka behind everybody else.

Someone stole my old Surface Pro, so I got a new one which turned out to the same model that I had a year ago?
 
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Not sure why anyone would buy this crap. The surface is an awful tablet and a mediocre laptop.

Not sure why you would say that, except that your blatant bias precedes you. I have an Surface Pro 2 that I've had since December 2013, and it has not had one hiccup. It performs as well today, as the day I got it. I also have an Surface Pro 2017 that I got in July 2017. It also has not had one hiccup. I use it extensively in my Real Estate business for things my iPad Pro could never do. Don't get me wrong, I have an iPad Pro 12.9 inch and I love it. It is a beautiful piece of hardware, but iOS just cannot compete with a full operating system in the business world. As you can see from my avatar, I like both companies and their products and will not get into silly, useless debates about who is better. I use my iPad Pro for a lot of things, but the Surface Pro is my choice for all things business. When iOS grows up and becomes a full operating system that has all the features a business user needs, I might change my mind at that point.
 
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Awww, bless 'em - you can't knock them for trying :D
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Not sure why anyone would buy this crap. The surface is an awful tablet and a mediocre laptop.

Naturally, because a compromise is NEVER 100% one or the other, and ALWAYS half of both.
 
I
I just have my doubts, especially with MS, who abandons products with alarming regularity. I’m honestly surprised they are attempting this again, since they couldn’t do it well with the RT devices and Surface 3–all of which cost more than $400 and felt underwhelming, even though Office worked fine on them all. I get that MS needs to make sure they don’t lose traction on Office 365, but how many people “need” advanced Office functionality on a tablet in a budget scenario? Based on previous lack of success on budget Surfaces, not very many.

1. All companies abandon products at some point. Apple does so at 7 years, and has even dropped OS support before then. Android can't even be updated regularly unless the manufacturer chooses to push out an update. MS really isn't any worse in this department. Even if Surface Budget was short lived it would continue to be supported for years since it would be Win 10 based. Plus we are talking about a $300 tablet. That's throw-a-way territory anyway. Same as the iPad. Neither are intended to be a workhorse.

2. RT was eons ago in Tech Years. It's like comparing the original Apple TV to the Apple TV 3. Also hard to compare the Balmer-era Microsoft with the Nadella-era. Nadella-era products. Balmer was a vindictive Win fanboy clown that had no sense of quality or consumer needs. Nadella pretty much saved the sinking USS MS.
 
"They will be the first Surface devices to adopt USB-C and rounded edges "like an iPad," instead of the square corners of the current devices."

I'm kinda surprised they'd lose the square edges, not only is it an industrial design separator that visually marks the device as "not being an iPad" from any distance. But also, it works well with the actual square edge UI of Windows.

They are accepting the fact people prefer rounded edges.
 
is iOS not a full operating system?
While iOS is a full OS, I think the person you responded too wants the iPad to be a desktop/laptop replacement.

Compared to Windows 10 or MacOs, its missing many features and options.
True, but I would not declare Windows 10 is not a full OS because it doesn't have feature parity with HP-UX or even Windows Server. iOS is a full OS in its own right and is designed for a specific purpose.
 
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is iOS not a full operating system?

iOS was originally designed as an OS for iPod. It's so limited it's embarrassing. Even a $5 Raspberry Pi Zero can do proper background multitasking and I use it a lot more than the iPad.
 
I don't really see iPad and Surface as competing products. A small memory iPad is perfectly usable for most things people use cheap iPad's for (media, email, web, social). A small memory Surface will just be awful for what people use a real computer for.

Also interesting how MS will have a new model this year, but it takes Apple 5 years to get anything designed and out the door.
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Careful...your Apple bias is showing with ridiculous statements like this.

What's a computer?
 
Microsoft has struggled to find a high-volume hit with the Surface devices as well as to introduce a flow of new choices to keep growth steady. In the fiscal year that ended last June, Surface revenue declined 2 percent as the company faced lower volume sales owing to an aging Surface Pro line. Revenue rose 32 percent in the most recent quarter, indicating new interest in Microsoft’s hardware.

Well of course they do. Did they ever think to actually start selling the tablet elsewhere, other than USA and some bigger EU countries? If you look at Apple iPad, you can buy it in almost every country in the world. And where does microsoft sell its surface lineup?

There are 28 member states in EU, yet they sell them only in 12
Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Italy, Portugal, Spain

Outside EU and USA
Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Bahrain, China, Hong Kong, India, Korea, Kuwait, Malaysia, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand and the United Arab Emirates


And then they wonder why on earth surface revenue isnt going anywhere. The same crap like they did with Zune.

Maybe they could have growth if they provide emerging markets a device with good hardware, a tablet based experience, include the keyboard with it, and charge an affordable price and still have good profit margins?

Surface devices are really more productivity based. iPads cover more breadth with productivity, multimedia consumption, gaming, an easy to use video chat platform, etc.

With a Surface, I can do more, but it won’t be optimized to do it well. iPads do less, but are more optimized to do things better, hence why they are more popular for people who want a tablet experience, not a hybrid experience.
 
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As a former SP4 owner, I concur. With the random reboots, freezes, excessive heat, loud fan, and 1/2 the advertised battery life, I was glad to get rid of the thing. That said, the pen, with magnetic attachment and ability to activate an App through clicking the top (like a real pen) was the best thing about the device.
My SP3 is still going strong. I've never had the problems other Surface owners have told me about, except shorter-than-expected battery life. I also have an iPad Pro, and I use them both for totally different things. IMO they are both great devices.
 
As a former SP4 owner, I concur. With the random reboots, freezes, excessive heat, loud fan, and 1/2 the advertised battery life, I was glad to get rid of the thing. That said, the pen, with magnetic attachment and ability to activate an App through clicking the top (like a real pen) was the best thing about the device.

When you've dealt with Windows before, and see this product come out, you ABSOLUTELY know what you just described is going to happen with these. That's why I'm always skeptical of the Surface Pro shills that come in here touting how it's the greatest device ever.
 
I would love to have a Surface-like device from Apple. The built-in stand alone makes it so much more convenient than the Smart Covers for iPads. Should Apple bring iOS apps to macOS, I see no reason why they shouldn't build a Surface-wannabe running macOS (with touch screen and Apple Pen support, preferably one that you can also stick onto the device).
 
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Clearly a bunch of people here have not used a Surface or even Windows 10....

I've been rocking the low end Surface Pro (M3, 4GB, 128GB) for a couple weeks now and it's the iPad Apple should have made. So far it's got good battery life, performance in Chrome for Internet stuff is great, handles Office stuff fine, and sleeps/wakes well. Initial testing with RAW files from my DSLR seem to be serviceable. The display is gorgeous as well. It works well as a tablet and as a PC with the Type Cover. It was $649 (now $699) at Best Buy and included the cover. That's cheaper than the iPad Pro, 10" iPad, and close to the new iPad. Having access to real, functional apps (vs watered down phone apps) is a Godsend.

4GB of RAM doesn't seem to be too limiting - you do have to manage things a little more carefully than 8GB but it's stuff like closing Chrome when trying to work on pictures, etc. But I can have 5 tabs open in Chrome, some Excel, Mail, and OneNote open and it works well. The pen (I use the Bamboo from my HP) and inking are great.

We'll see how it holds up over time - the CC I used gives a 2 year warranty so I'm good for then.

Funny how I used to be all Apple a few short years ago and now I'm pretty much 0 Apple and don't miss it at all.
 
That's your conclusion, not mine. I didn't say what kind of affect it will have, just that it's an aggressive move not to cede the low end "quality" market to Apple, just as Apple's move to produce a $300 tablet was aggressive so as to not cede to Android/Chromebook. We'll have to see what MS pushes out to see what kind of affect it will have.

And just because MS isn't a player in the tablet or laptop market at "any" price point doesn't mean that potential isn't there. Example: back in 2009 Android was not a major player in the phone OS market. Thank cheap Android phones for quickly eclipsing iPhone in worldwide marketshare.
Why do you keep saying a $300 Surface. It’s $400 in the article.
 
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I had a Surface 3 (non pro) with LTE and loved it for the work I was doing at the time, where I needed PowerShell and other Windows applications and was bouncing between client sites. My needs were pretty unique though, and even being a smaller device than most Surfaces it still felt like a hybrid experience because Windows 10 is just not a great tablet interface. The biggest issue was the battery life and the horrible USB charging.

Anyway, I now use an iPad Pro for my tablet. My job has changed, the Office Apps have gotten a ton better and multitasking in the iPad Pro are great. I love the quality and reliability.

I'm not sure how this will turn out. Even the Surface 3 was at a higher price point than we're talking here.
 
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