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Microsoft Planning Low-Cost Surface Line to Compete With Apple's $329 iPad
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It’s more than Windows RT. Just lately it was Windows 10 S—which was also aimed at education—lasting maybe 6 months before being reduced to “S Mode.” Before that, Windows Mobile, before that, Band. They won’t event talk Xbox sales. MS seems to struggle with non-enterprise more and more. Will UWP ever make it? Nadella May have corrected the ship, but even life long MS writers like Thurrott aren’t sure where this is going. Under Nadella, Windows is way down on the list, and Surface is to showcase Windows and inspire OEMs about flexibility.
People need to move on from the cheese grater Mac Pros. I owned a 2009 eight core Mac Pro and loved it, but the truth of the matter is that the low-end 2017 5K iMac I bought last year wipes the floor with that machine and the RAM (internally) and the drive/GPU (externally) can easily be upgraded in the future if necessary.
Don't see it being successful. MS can make a small Surface, but to be anywhere as slim, light and portable as iPad, they'll have to use ARM, which didn't work for them the last time, or they'll have to go with Intel Atom chips which are significantly underpowered compared to Apple's A-series CPUs. Of course super cheap PCs are no stranger to the PC market. This will be interesting to watch. Who knows? I'm surprised the Surface Pro line is as successful as it is. I've tried them a few times - not impressed.
I'm "poo pooing" the idea. None of the regulars here would accuse me of wearing Apple-colored glasses.
My opinions have been formed by first-hand experiences with Surface devices, Windows 10 on tablets, and additional experience on many other platforms.
Surface line of products, generally speaking, are not the most reliable. Having experienced serious issues with them (Surface RT, Surface 2, Surface Pro 4, Surface Book), I refuse to buy another Surface. And I've been a big fan of the Surface RT and 2.
Here is why I believe that if such a low-cost device is released, it will not be successful (depending upon one's definition of successful)....
Operating System - Windows is a desktop OS with a lot of enterprise-level functionality. This is not only overkill for the consumer market, but it actually has a negative effect on the user experience. The forced updates of Windows is tolerable for many (not for me) on a desktop, but doesn't work well with a mobile device like a tablet. Microsoft needs to gut out much of those things that don't matter to consumers, like group policies, logging, etc. But they won't ever do that.
The OS footprint grows dramatically over time. There are many low-end notebooks with 32GB storage. Upon first boot up, there's about 20GB free. Apply a few updates and free space can easily drop to 10GB and below. Even using all of the tips and tricks to reduce the footprint, the free space on that system never gets much above 10GB. Who will want to perform that kind of system maintenance on a device that's supposed to be a mobile convenience device? I've owned a few with only 16GB storage, that experience could be characterized as criminally fraudulent.
UI - Microsoft doesn't have a good track record with long-term commitment to a direction they set. The took a step too far with Windows 8. Tweaked it back a bit with 8.1, and another step back with 10. The result is an inconsistent UI that continues to have a mixed look and feel.
Apps - The Modern UI (the UI previously known as Metro) is not well embraced by developers. It makes poor use of screen space causing developers to revert back to the "classic" UI for any app that is non-trivial in function. There aren't enough Modern UI apps to make the tablet experience on the Surface a pleasant one. And blowing up UI elements on the desktop is NOT the same as a UI specifically designed for touch interaction.
The availability of a quantity of quality Modern UI apps has historically been an issue. But I believe the situation worsened with the discontinuing of the Surface 2 and the abandonment of any pretense of it being used as a tablet.
The Surface was never "tablet only" - Microsoft never marketed the Surface as a tablet. There still are no ads (and never have been) for the Surface that DON'T showcase the TouchCover. Yes, the keyboard covers were sold separately, but that was to help advertise a lower MSRP. This point is really a summary of the previous points.
Unattainable pricepoint - It is not going to be possible for Microsoft to meet the price point of the 2018 iPad. They're not a hardware company and they don't have the volume to be able to get rock-bottom prices on components. And because of the requirements of the OS and Microsoft's unwillingness to optimize Windows for such a platform, that means greater hardware requirements.
Competition is good for consumers. Poor competition is not. Microsoft's half-hearted attempt at this (and it WILL be half-hearted) will only embolden Apple to sit on their quite substantial marketshare.
Why? I'd love to come back to Apple but their products as of late have been MEH and unreliable (Macbook keyboards anyone?). They are making me tons of $$ in stocks though.
Also I would say that Panos Panay who runs the whole Surface decision seems very passionate about the devices he announces, it’s not like an Apple event (Steve Jobs had that down to a T) but I would say he seems passionate and dedicated, just as Apple does.
They already have Windows running on Snapdragon (ARM) with full 32-bit x86 compatibility. 64-bit is soon to be released. It's a little slow for the x86 stuff due to the emulation but we're talking phone CPUs here. A more capable ARM CPU would probably be decent. Apple did similar things during the Intel transition.
I'm "poo pooing" the idea. None of the regulars here would accuse me of wearing Apple-colored glasses.
My opinions have been formed by first-hand experiences with Surface devices, Windows 10 on tablets, and additional experience on many other platforms.
Surface line of products, generally speaking, are not the most reliable. Having experienced serious issues with them (Surface RT, Surface 2, Surface Pro 4, Surface Book), I refuse to buy another Surface. And I've been a big fan of the Surface RT and 2.
Here is why I believe that if such a low-cost device is released, it will not be successful (depending upon one's definition of successful)....
Operating System - Windows is a desktop OS with a lot of enterprise-level functionality. This is not only overkill for the consumer market, but it actually has a negative effect on the user experience. The forced updates of Windows is tolerable for many (not for me) on a desktop, but doesn't work well with a mobile device like a tablet. Microsoft needs to gut out much of those things that don't matter to consumers, like group policies, logging, etc. But they won't ever do that.
The OS footprint grows dramatically over time. There are many low-end notebooks with 32GB storage. Upon first boot up, there's about 20GB free. Apply a few updates and free space can easily drop to 10GB and below. Even using all of the tips and tricks to reduce the footprint, the free space on that system never gets much above 10GB. Who will want to perform that kind of system maintenance on a device that's supposed to be a mobile convenience device? I've owned a few with only 16GB storage, that experience could be characterized as criminally fraudulent.
UI - Microsoft doesn't have a good track record with long-term commitment to a direction they set. The took a step too far with Windows 8. Tweaked it back a bit with 8.1, and another step back with 10. The result is an inconsistent UI that continues to have a mixed look and feel.
Apps - The Modern UI (the UI previously known as Metro) is not well embraced by developers. It makes poor use of screen space causing developers to revert back to the "classic" UI for any app that is non-trivial in function. There aren't enough Modern UI apps to make the tablet experience on the Surface a pleasant one. And blowing up UI elements on the desktop is NOT the same as a UI specifically designed for touch interaction.
The availability of a quantity of quality Modern UI apps has historically been an issue. But I believe the situation worsened with the discontinuing of the Surface 2 and the abandonment of any pretense of it being used as a tablet.
The Surface was never "tablet only" - Microsoft never marketed the Surface as a tablet. There still are no ads (and never have been) for the Surface that DON'T showcase the TouchCover. Yes, the keyboard covers were sold separately, but that was to help advertise a lower MSRP. This point is really a summary of the previous points.
Unattainable pricepoint - It is not going to be possible for Microsoft to meet the price point of the 2018 iPad. They're not a hardware company and they don't have the volume to be able to get rock-bottom prices on components. And because of the requirements of the OS and Microsoft's unwillingness to optimize Windows for such a platform, that means greater hardware requirements.
Competition is good for consumers. Poor competition is not. Microsoft's half-hearted attempt at this (and it WILL be half-hearted) will only embolden Apple to sit on their quite substantial marketshare.
Completely agree, I had an SP2, SP3, and SP4 before I finally gave up on the 2 in 1 idea. So many issues.
It should it’s 10 years newer. It’s certainly not 10 years better and same old arguments with AIO. Your stuck with it.
Also the fact the thermals are gimped. It’s not an upgrade it’s a sidestep for any pro.
I would like mac OS on reasonably priced hardware (AMD ryzen) with Android style notifications.. is that to much to ask?
Remember Surface RT? Let’s hope they don’t go down that route again...
When Apple left PowerPC, developers soon followed and made their software x86. x86 also scaled beyond an aging PowerPC design, so there were advantages to the move, and the Intel chips could handle the emulation better. Contrast that with WOA, where MS is asking developers to scale down full-blown x86 apps to ultra low power ARM. MS made it look like SD835 could successfully emulate x86 Photoshop, which from what I gather was not actually even close to the case. I just don’t think WOA will see the native support, as there are very few WOA devices to begin with. The HP model is well over $400, and reviewers didn’t have much good to say about emulation. I’m curious how Apple will be able to transition away from Intel like they plan, but they will still get more developer buy in than MS does with anything not Win32.
The initial reviews have said that the emulation is serviceable but not fast. Makes sense as the SD 835 is a phone CPU. Put a decent ARM design like, say an A10 class chip and you may get acceptable emulation. For native apps it's not bad at all.
From what I remember for Modern apps it's as simple as the developers compiling for ARM and x86 and it's good to go as the APIs are all native on both chips.
It will be interesting to watch this space and see what they come up with - shouldn't be as bad as the Surface RT debacle.
That's the model which should be running a Qualcomm SD but No, they put some intel low cost **** in there instead. Way to go Microsoft. Enjoy your third failure in a row.
As Apple's iPad and Microsoft's Surface continue to compete in the tablet market, a new report out today by Bloomberg claims that Microsoft is planning its next tablet line to be lower-cost in an effort to attract people to Surface products who aren't interested in the more expensive Surface Pro. The move is directly aimed at competing with Apple's recently launched $329 iPad, and could see Microsoft debut the devices as soon as the second half of 2018.
According to people familiar with the company's plans, the tablets will be priced at around $400, so they would still be more expensive than Apple's cheapest options. They will be the first Surface devices to adopt USB-C and rounded edges "like an iPad," instead of the square corners of the current devices. Storage tiers will include 64GB and 128GB, as well as LTE options, and the devices will feature 10-inch screens.
The Surface Pro
In an effort to make the tablets 20 percent lighter than the high-end $799 Surface Pro, Microsoft is believed to sacrifice battery life by as much as "four hours fewer" than the current generation (13.5 hours for Surface Pro). Not much is known about the insides of the upcoming tablets, but the people said that Intel will supply the main processor and graphics chips.
The devices will continue to have the kickstand for upright typing and video watching seen in current Surface models, and they will run Windows 10 Pro. Ultimately, the company is trying to enter the low-cost market again after previous attempts with the Surface RT in 2012 and the Surface 3 in 2015, which both started at $499 and performed poorly in comparison to the growing Surface Pro line.
Microsoft is believed to be looking at Apple's education-focused iPad launch from earlier in 2018, and the new Surface models "could likewise appeal to students and teachers," as well as schools that look into buying cheap tablets in bulk. With the cheaper Surface, the company is planning low-cost updates to its keyboard cover, stylus, and mouse. Prices haven't yet been pinpointed, but as a comparison the current keyboard cover runs for $160.
Apple's low-cost iPad includes Apple Pencil support, an A10 Fusion chip with 64-bit desktop-class architecture, a Retina display, enhanced cameras, and advanced sensors with a gyroscope and accelerometer, which fuel powerful augmented reality apps through ARKit. Although the iPad is normally $329 for consumers when not on sale, Apple sells it at $299 to schools and says that the tablet was built for mobility and durability for students, sporting an aluminum unibody construction.
Article Link: Microsoft Planning Low-Cost Surface Line to Compete With Apple's $329 iPad
Until booting to OS X is an option on the iPad, Microsoft will win the tablet wars.
Lol Windows already lost the entire computer market
I'm waiting for the 2nd repair on one of my user's Surfacebook keyboard to arrive. Both times the keyboard stopped charging entirely (though continues to be powered by the tablet). Annoying, because otherwise I think it's an above-average device in the market right now.
Note this is the 2nd repair in 6 MONTHS, while the machine itself has been in service without issue for at least a full year prior to this. I'm gun-shy on MS's hardware reliability because of this, they have no track record to go off of when it comes to computer hardware.
You mean like the battery discharging while it's plugged in? I had a surface book 2 for about a week, and while running AdobeCC I was able to watch the battery discharge even though it was plugged in. Not sure how MS missed that.
Meanwhile, the SP4 was an "ok" device. . . I would hardly call Windows 10 in tablet mode anything short of ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Funny, history to this point would point to Apple as the winner. Microsoft won't even call their Surface Pros and Books "tablets". Unless your definition of winning is "you like it more".