Microsoft Planning Low-Cost Surface Line to Compete With Apple's $329 iPad

[eltoslightfoot]

Dude, it if was that bad, there would be millions of units recalled and it would have been plastered all over the news, especially the tech sites. You must have had a chinese knockoff version of it or something, because I tried out different configs of the SP4 before I bought mines and they were all fine. If your a Mac guy, I'm fine with that, but don't be making up junk just to dis a product.

Here's a thought. What if the failure rate was fairly high, but you got a good one. Just like the Macbook Pro for 2016 has keyboard issues like 10% of the time. That is really high, but 9 in 10 are still fine. If you get one of the ten that sucks? It sucks. My failure rate on Surface Pros was MUCH higher than that.
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The fact is, most newer Windows 10 laptops are good. I have a Dell 15" 2in1 7573 and SP4 and both are great machines. These days, as long as you have a half-way decent computer with an SSD than there usually aren't any problems.

The Mac guys just been living in the past too long, Apple themselves have effectively dumped the Mac. Time for these guys to see the light.

HAHAHAHA! I have a Win10 desktop and it is fair inferior with software. On Mac, the app store actually works, programs aren't trying to be universal, and actually work. Win 10 on my desktop updates even though I use GPs to disable that. I can't completely disable Cortana any more. There are ads even though I bought it. I will definitely live in the past then.

 

[NIKKG]

Well then I am a liar as well. I had tons of issues with my SP3 and SP4. The SP2 was rock-solid. I should have stuck with that. Now I just use a Macbook Pro 15 and an iPad Pro + Pencil.

Sounds like user error. How can both computers be bad? Ok, I can see one being defective, but damn 2?

 

[eltoslightfoot]

That said, I really, really want them to return to being real competition. I would love a 2 in 1 instead of a MacBook Pro and iPad Pro. MS just keeps chasing me away.
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Sounds like user error. How can both computers be bad? Ok, I can see one being defective, but damn 2?

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

That's what it is. Dude, I build PCs. Definitely don't know anything about how to use Windows.

Heck, I even built a Hackintosh/Linux/Win10 Machine. I put linux on an SP2 for someone. Definitely User Error. Can't be that they suck with quality control.

 

[NIKKG]

Here's a thought. What if the failure rate was fairly high, but you got a good one. Just like the Macbook Pro for 2016 has keyboard issues like 10% of the time. That is really high, but 9 in 10 are still fine. If you get one of the ten that sucks? It sucks. My failure rate on Surface Pros was MUCH higher than that.
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HAHAHAHA! I have a Win10 desktop and it is fair inferior with software. On Mac, the app store actually works, programs aren't trying to be universal, and actually work. Win 10 on my desktop updates even though I use GPs to disable that. I can't completely disable Cortana any more. There are ads even though I bought it. I will definitely live in the past then.

MS has a warranty, if its defective, replace it till you get a good one. Anyways, not gonna get into the Mac vs Windows thing, the 90's are gone. Enjoy your computer until Apple completely dumps the Mac and makes you all use Ipads to do your "work."

 

[eltoslightfoot]

MS has a warranty, if its defective, replace it till you get a good one. Anyways, not gonna get into the Mac vs Windows thing, the 90's are gone. Enjoy your computer until Apple completely dumps the Mac and makes you all use Ipads to do your "work."

Oh you mean MS complete. Been there, done that. Not near as good with applecare. I guess I will. What work do I need to do that can't be done on a Mac or an iPad.

I blog with Wordpress on both, use MS Office on both, Scrivener for writing on both, SSH on both, FTP on both, Code on both, Aeon Timeline on both, Evernote on both, Plex on both, Todoist on both. Now, I use Mac for mapmaking/CAD, XCode, Plex Server, Scapple, and run Windows Server on a Parallels VM.

So what is it I am missing for work?

I forgot using Procreate on the iPad for art, along with Affinity Photo on both. I also use Affinity Designer. Sorry about that.

 

[NIKKG]

By the way, I don't hate the Ipads. I think they are the best media consumption tablets out there. Better than any Android tablets by far. However, if I want to use it for work or school, its the Surface Pro by far. You can't do any serious work with an Ipad, sorry to burst anyone's bubble. But for everyday web browsing, games and such, Ipads are awesome, just don't call it a "real" computer and put it up to a Surface Pro.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

By the way, I don't hate the Ipads. I think they are the best media consumption tablets out there. Better than any Android tablets by far. However, if I want to use it for work or school, its the Surface Pro by far. You can't do any serious work with an Ipad, sorry to burst anyone's bubble. But for everyday web browsing, games and such, Ipads are awesome, just don't call it a "real" computer and put it up to a Surface Pro.

Or get a real laptop and an iPad. If I didn't have a macbook, I would get a razer or alienware and an iPad.

 

[NIKKG]

Oh you mean MS complete. Been there, done that. Not near as good with applecare. I guess I will. What work do I need to do that can't be done on a Mac or an iPad.

I blog with Wordpress on both, use MS Office on both, Scrivener for writing on both, SSH on both, FTP on both, Code on both, Aeon Timeline on both, Evernote on both, Plex on both, Todoist on both. Now, I use Mac for mapmaking/CAD, XCode, Plex Server, Scapple, and run Windows Server on a Parallels VM.

So what is it I am missing for work?

I forgot using Procreate on the iPad for art, along with Affinity Photo on both. I also use Affinity Designer. Sorry about that.

Is blogging considered a real job?

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Is blogging considered a real job?

That's the one thing you got out of that whole entire list? LOL. And yes, when used for marketing, it is. Try being a writer without one.

If you want the personal software list, I can do that also: Paprika on both, Kindle on both, Netflix on both, etc., but you already know that.

 

[NIKKG]

That's the one thing you got out of that whole entire list? LOL. And yes, when used for marketing, it is. Try being a writer without one.

If you want the personal software list, I can do that also: Paprika on both, Kindle on both, Netflix on both, etc., but you already know that.

Hey its all good with me as long as you making money!

 

[eltoslightfoot]

The other thing I have found is that it is great having two devices more than I would have thought. I take handwritten notes in evernote on my iPad Pro in meetings or coding, and then use my macbook pro for the main work. 2 in 1s don't allow that flexibility of research on one and work on the other--especially while traveling.
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Hey its all good with me as long as you making money!

Again, if MS quits doing their data leeching crap and gets their act together, it isn't like Apple has been kicking out awesome Macbooks lately. I would happily switch. But then I hear about Lenovo bundling rootkits/spyware/sketchiness.

I have actually been more impressed with the HP Spectres as 2-in-1s than the SP line.

 

[ackmondual]

I don't really see iPad and Surface as competing products. A small memory iPad is perfectly usable for most things people use cheap iPad's for (media, email, web, social). A small memory Surface will just be awful for what people use a real computer for.

Also interesting how MS will have a new model this year, but it takes Apple 5 years to get anything designed and out the door.
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Careful...your Apple bias is showing with ridiculous statements like this.

I remain convinced that most poeple who bash Windows 10 and Surface products haven't really tried it nor given them a fair shake, just like how people who bash OSX and Ipads haven't done the same either.

 

[itguy06]

Here's a thought. What if the failure rate was fairly high, but you got a good one. Just like the Macbook Pro for 2016 has keyboard issues like 10% of the time. That is really high, but 9 in 10 are still fine.

It's higher than that on the keyboards. Listen tho this week's Mac Power User Podcast. David went through 3 keyboards on his! It's pretty much a given that those keyboards are defective and a matter of when it will fail, not if.

HAHAHAHA! I have a Win10 desktop and it is fair inferior with software. On Mac, the app store actually works, programs aren't trying to be universal, and actually work. Win 10 on my desktop updates even though I use GPs to disable that. I can't completely disable Cortana any more. There are ads even though I bought it. I will definitely live in the past then.

I have 3 of them. Turn off suggestions and the "ads" go away. I've got no issues with the MS app store. There is a lot of crap in there (same with iOS and Mac App store) but there are tons of decent apps too. I could care less about disabling Cortana. Just turn her off and don't use her. Simple.

 

[MacDawg]

I remain convinced that most poeple who bash Windows 10 and Surface products haven't really tried it nor given them a fair shake, just like how people who bash OSX and Ipads haven't done the same either.

Not true of me, I have to use Windows 10 regularly at work and while it isn't the worst iteration of Windows, I prefer any version of macOS over it.
As far as the Surface, I had one for work for a year and finally, after having it replaced once and tearing my hair out, I turned it in for a Dell laptop.
I have a Dell all-in-one on my desk at work as well as my Dell laptop with an external monitor.
But most of what I do, I do on my personal MacBook Air which also has an external monitor on my desk, unless I just can't.

 

[itguy06]

I have actually been more impressed with the HP Spectres as 2-in-1s than the SP line.

I love my 15" Spectre x360. It's every bot as good as if not better than my previous Powerbook G4, Unibody Macbook Pro, and Macbook Air.

 

[PhoneI]

Countless satisfied Surface owners would disagree. Compared to the iPad (why people keep comparing a Surface to iPad is beyond me), the Surface is far more function. Hell, the simple fact that you can access the file system makes it more useful than an iPad, and that's a simple file explorer function!

countless?

 

[Abazigal]

I have a Mac and Surface Pro and now 70-80% of my time is spent using the SP4 and I am very happy with it.

Of course, the Apple defence league present in this thread don't want to hear of happy users. Much easier to dismiss the device as "garbage", such a considered and well justified verdict.

And all this with them being so keen to call others out as being the haters.

I have nothing against people who are using their surface pro devices to great effect. Use the best device which meets your needs and all that.

Rather, what irritates me is that people here keep dismissing the iPad as being crippled simply because it can’t run photoshop or excel. Never mind that there are tons of people using iPads for work and not really needing or missing these apps.

As a school teacher, I find I am able to get by most days with just my iPad Pro. It’s been awesome for pretty much everything I use it for in school and at home.

My school is going to replace my work-issued touchscreen laptop with a convertible, but I see myself upgrading to a larger iPad later this year and continuing to use that. iOS (and the wide plethora of apps available to me) is just so much more fun and productive compared to staid old windows for me.

While PCs likely still form the backbone of the computing industry, I think this sub seriously needs to snap out of their bubble and stop thinking that PCs are the only “real computers” that matter. The iPad isn’t crippled because it doesn’t run desktop processors or code apps or some other niche task 90% of the world won’t need to do. The world has moved on to other computing form factors and maybe it’s time they acknowledged this and moved on as well.

I both support, and look forward to a world where the iPad is the general purpose computer for the masses.

 

[itguy06]

It all goes to your use case. For me the Surface line is the tablet the iPad should have been. It's compact, I can take it on vacation and not notice it and it's a reasonable tablet.

What gets it for me is I can take it on vacation, load it up with Netflix and with a $10 Mini Displayport to HDMI adapter hool up to any TV. I can take it and my camera and review photos on the go. I can connect with my VPN to home and have them safely backed up or connect a USB drive and put them to the server there. I can also run my full apps like my personal finance app (Moneydance). With OneDrive I can have my docs wherever I am. I can share the pen with my PC and draw on the screen and do great Photoshop edits so no Wacom needed.

To do that with an iPad would require a hokey adapter to "transfer" pics to the iPad that, unless it changed sucks. to output to TV is another $50 adapter that works, according to reviews, so-so.

I'd love to do that with an iPad or a Mac 2-in-1 but Apple thinks that the junk touchbar is the way forward. Sorry, Apple it's not. Neither is removing useful ports.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

countless?

Yeah, because MS doesn’t talk sales numbers, there’s no way to count them.

I remain convinced that most poeple who bash Windows 10 and Surface products haven't really tried it nor given them a fair shake, just like how people who bash OSX and Ipads haven't done the same either.

I’ve owned 5 or 6, and never have I wanted to like a product so much only to be frustrated time and again. I had the issue frequently where the App Store absolutely refused to install a new app. App Troubleshooter wouldn’t fix it, but I discovered I could usually fix it by randomly uninstalling an app and then trying again. I surrendered after Surface 3. I still use Windows 10 at work, and it’s okay. OneDrive puts up a fight every time our password policy kicks in and I have to change it. It’s not all bad with MS—I like the range of ability of their Outlook app on iOS, which even has decent AW support.

 

[DiamonDecoden]

Nice. Would love to see a lower priced surface but hopefully it is sufficiently specced for a smooth experience.

 

[PhoneI]

Yeah, because MS doesn’t talk sales numbers, there’s no way to count them.

Yeah, but MS does talk revenue from the Surface line. It ain't great.

 

[rp2011]

I have an iPad pro 12.9. My only gripe and it's an annoying one is trying to get the cursor exactly where you want in when typing and not having it highlights the word/s instead. It's a pain in the ass. Absolutely needs a dedicated track pad option for keyboards.

 

[warp9]

Let's suppose you want a tablet, have to run the full version of Microsoft Office and only have $400. Is that reason enough for someone to want to buy this crap?

If you have to have the full version of Office but you only have $400 and only a tablet will do, something is wrong with your life. Get your priorities sorted.

 

[convergent]

What's interesting is that MS can't make a significant dent in iPad dominance. All of the narratives boasting about the Surface's threat to iPad and Apple have all been pure fantasy.
BTW, what will be the new MS model's major innovation or design improvement? It seems like this news is just about MS's response to trying to match the incredible value of the base iPad.
BTW, when you attack someone's bias be sure to check yours at the door as well.

Unlike with Apple, the Microsoft marektshare needs to be combined with their OEMs - Lenovo, Samsung, HP, Dell, etc.. which all make great Surface like clones. The hybrid part of the market is the only part that is growing... single purpose tablets like the iPad is a shrinking market. The main reason being that there's not much reason to buy a new one once you have one. My wife heavily uses an iPad Air, but there is nothing the new ones do that matters to her so until it physically dies, she's got all she needs.

MS has to do it. No one but gamers are spending more than $600 for a Windows machine. And they are a tiny microcosm of consumers.

Your statement is completely false. What is your source that gamers are the only ones buying $600 "windows machines". I don't game at all and love my Surface Pro. I'm seeing more and more SPs in my travels. There were two of us on the same row on my flight last night that were working away on our SPs during take off and landing. Most of the other people around us had Windows laptops that cost more than $600. My company of about 30K+ people issues laptops that cost more than $600 to every employee. My wife is having surgery this morning and she signed in at registration on a Surface Pro. No, gamers are probably a fractional minority of people that spend $600 on a windows computer.

Personally, having used an iPad for work for many years now, I have come to accept, even embrace the way iOS handles files. Heck, I find it more convenient to launch an app and have all the relevant files automatically sorted by app, rather than go delving into a file manager and click through countless hierarchies of folders.

Either way, the absence of a file manager hasn't bothered me as much as I thought it would.

Maybe as a teacher you can get by with an iPad, but a large majority of business users can not. Just this week alone it would have been a nightmare for me if I couldn't sort files into folders. I dealt with about 25 revisions to a single Powerpoint deck that involved 6-7 people contributing. I saw in another post you said that Excel was something people could live without. Have you ever worked in a field other than education? Information workers live and die by Excel, and I'm talking about complex spreadsheets with pivot tables, macros, etc.. Apple has ignored this large part of the market by refusing to embrace a hybrid model. Apple wants you to buy a tablet and a laptop separately. That is a non starter for me now that I've experienced how good a Surface Pro is.

Whether or not a low cost Surface will go anywhere is something we'll have to wait and see. Its not something I'll probably buy.

 

[H2SO4]

If you have to have the full version of Office but you only have $400 and only a tablet will do, something is wrong with your life. Get your priorities sorted.

Yep, cos we all have the income to do what YOU want. Sorry, we're all so disappointingly poor.