Microsoft Planning Low-Cost Surface Line to Compete With Apple's $329 iPad

[62tele]

Also interesting how MS will have a new model this year, but it takes Apple 5 years to get anything designed and out the door.

What's interesting is that MS can't make a significant dent in iPad dominance. All of the narratives boasting about the Surface's threat to iPad and Apple have all been pure fantasy.
BTW, what will be the new MS model's major innovation or design improvement? It seems like this news is just about MS's response to trying to match the incredible value of the base iPad.
BTW, when you attack someone's bias be sure to check yours at the door as well.

 

[spinedoc77]

Hmm, I don't know how I feel about this, I think it's a very bad move for MS. I am an avid surface pro user since the very first one and feel it is absolutely the best tablet out there for my needs. But I've always said, right from the beginning when we saw the atrocious windows RT OS and tablets, you can't out-ipad the ipad, you just can't. Although there are several reasons I say that, the main reason IMO, and really the only thing that the ipad has over the surface tablets, is battery. So if MS cuts the battery life down to 4 hours (which in Microsoft land really means 2.5 hours) it will be DOA. Additionally if MS decides to put some cut back OS on it like Windows S it will be DOA as well, no one wants that crap, no one. The only way I see an OS like Windows S succeeding in the tablet space is if it can match the ipad's battery life, but that's ignoring the lack of apps on windows side.

It's interesting because if Microsoft didn't abandon their smartphone strategy, if they really pushed hard on the development side, supported their customers and oems, I'll bet they would be a major player in the mobile space right now and would be releasing a true ipad competitor. But that didn't happen, Microsoft changed strategies at every opportunity and frittered away any marketplace advantage they had, and they STILL do the same to this day. It's like one hand has no idea what the other is doing. They single handedly murdered their own app development and mobile platform.

I really think we are stuck until battery technology advances. I'm not a big fan of dumbing down my tablet like an ipad, but I can't argue that the upside is much better battery life. The typical surface pro user does not want an ipad because they want to be able to run regular windows programs and have more control over their device, and are willing to sacrifice battery life for that. And they sure as heck aren't going to attract ipad users with 4 hours of battery life or a dumbed down version of Windows.

Hey I predicted RT was going to fail right when it came out. Someone screenshot me, I'm predicting these will fail as well if they have 4hour battery life and Windows S.

 

[femike]

It won't be a tablet to me because Windows 10 is a high maintenance and annoying OS and therefore not a tablet OS.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

What's interesting is that MS can't make a significant dent in iPad dominance. All of the narratives boasting about the Surface's threat to iPad and Apple have all been pure fantasy.

It reminds me of the "More people are switching from Macs to Surface than ever before" stat-less statistic from a few years ago. As ailing as Apple's Mac line has been in places, Surface has never been able to overtake Apple. It's just that MS has to aim its Surface message at Apple, as otherwise it looks like they are stealing sales from the very OEMs that they sell Windows licenses to.

 

[Juiceboy]

Love my SP4. Had no issues with it at all. Battery life isn't amazing as advertised but that's ok as i mainly used it docked where i need to get work and video editing done with multiple screens. Can't do that with an iPad unfortunately.

 

[jeremiah256]

Microsoft trying to position a Surface to compete with an iPad will run into two problems.

One, people have ingrained expectations of what the tablet experience should be. And whether it's from using an iPad, a Galaxy Tab, an Amazon Fire, or their phone/phablet, that experience revolves around apps. Full screen, immersive, focused, get into the app, do your stuff and get out. Apps make both media consumption and productivity more pleasant on a 10" device. A Surface is a 2-in-1 device, where when in tablet mode, the user experience is sub par due to it's very lacking app store.

Two, it's a traditional computer. Many will think this is an advantage, and it can be in some circumstances, but someone considering buying an iPad as a main device, an educational tool, or a family computer that lives on the living room table, probably does not want a traditional computer. They don't want a device they have to fuss with or worry that grandpop will load up with viruses from visiting 'golf' sites. I'd go so far as to say most customers in the market for an iPad would probably consider a 2-in-1 Chromebook over a Surface (which IMHO, is the device Microsoft should really be concerned about).

I'm not bashing the Surface line. I've recommended Surface computers over Macs. I bought a (non-Pro) Surface 3 in 2015 and to be honest, I thought the form factor was nice. Update the hardware as described in this article and it'd be an good choice for someone wanting or needing a 10" 2-in-1 device that is pure Microsoft (until it downloads Candy Crush and 10 other things you never asked for). But, the iPad is an incredibly good consumption device that can also be used for productivity. The Surface is a good productivity device, but the media consumption experience is only slightly above a traditional PC when in tablet mode, and not up to traditional tablet levels.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Don't see it being successful. MS can make a small Surface, but to be anywhere as slim, light and portable as iPad, they'll have to use ARM, which didn't work for them the last time, or they'll have to go with Intel Atom chips which are significantly underpowered compared to Apple's A-series CPUs. Of course super cheap PCs are no stranger to the PC market. This will be interesting to watch. Who knows? I'm surprised the Surface Pro line is as successful as it is. I've tried them a few times - not impressed.

It really isn’t successful. Microsoft sells about 1 million units per quarter, across the entire Surface lineup. Hasn’t changed significantly in years it seems.

 

[Baymowe335]

Let's suppose you want a tablet, have to run the full version of Microsoft Office and only have $400. Is that reason enough for someone to want to buy this crap?

I’d still buy the $329 iPad and use the office apps. You need a keyboard/mouse and a good processor to do any hardcore Excel work. Either tablet would only really be used for viewing Office docs and very basic functions.

 

[AppleScruff1]

Windows will always feel yucky to me. I guess many die-hard Windows users feel the say way about Mac, mostly due to ignorance around the Mac being a true UNIX machine.

Or maybe they just don’t like Macs.

 

[Smearbrick]

Not sure why anyone would buy this crap. The surface is an awful tablet and a mediocre laptop.

Countless satisfied Surface owners would disagree. Compared to the iPad (why people keep comparing a Surface to iPad is beyond me), the Surface is far more function. Hell, the simple fact that you can access the file system makes it more useful than an iPad, and that's a simple file explorer function!

 

[rp2011]

MS has to do it. No one but gamers are spending more than $600 for a Windows machine. And they are a tiny microcosm of consumers.

 

[bondr006]

I tried making the iPad more productive for 6 generations and just got tired of jumping through app hoops to try and make it mimic PC or Mac functionality. Sorry, but there's more than 5 things iOS needs to fix. iOS is fine as it is for the iPhone, but for something like the iPad pro that is supposedly a laptop replacement, it falls way short. I had iPads up through their 6th generation, hopping through app hoops trying to make it a real productivity machine. Finally got tired of everything being created being stored in the app it was created in. Some of us who are power users will never be able to use the iPad with iOS having so much control over how you use it. And the iPad will never be a laptop replacement until Apple gives us back some of that control and lets us use it the way we want. I have an iPad Pro 12.9", and it's a beautiful piece of hardware. Unfortunately, it's a beautiful piece of hardware that is hampered from ever reaching its full potential by the software that runs it.

I finally got tired of trying and went with the MS Surface Pro which I really like. They will need to give iOS for the iPad Pro some more features before I give up my Surface Pro and come back. A device with the screen size that the iPad Pro has, demands a few more features from its OS, and the iPad Pro just seems lacking without them. There are 6 features I would need before I could replace my Surface Pro with an iPad Pro. They could even make it so people that don't want these features could turn them off for a simpler experience.

1. iOS for iPad Pro should have the ability to set your own default apps for things like email, web browser, photo editor, etc. just like you can do on a Mac or PC.

2. iOS for iPad Pro should have a real file manager like Finder or Explorer so you can store and arrange your files the way you want to. The ability to click on a file and open it with the app of your choice is also a must. I just can't stand the fact that you are forced to save files in the app they were created in. How cumbersome is that?

3. The ability to use a mouse or put a touch pad on the "Smart Keyboard". For the iPad Pro to truly be a Mac or PC replacement, this would be a must. I can mirror an iPad to my Apple TV, but instead of a keyboard and mouse to control it, I have to actually have the iPad in my lap. Same thing when I hook it up to a monitor with an HDMI cable.

4. And, for the ease of transferring files on and off an iPad and expanding its storage, it needs a micro SD card slot or USB. I would prefer the micro SD for the smaller footprint.

5. I am a Real Estate Broker, and I need my machine to be able to run full complex web applications on the browser, not the mobile versions. Until iPad can do this, it is not a PC or Mac replacement.

6. This may be a silly request, but the ability to change icon images would be nice.

So when they say the iPad Pro can replace a Mac or PC, I say: PC replacement my ass! How the hell can they claim it as an Mac or PC replacement when you can't even use it like one?

Just to make myself clear, I don't care if the normal iPad (iPad Air) gets an update. The iPad Pro, which claims to be an Mac or PC replacement needs the features I mentioned above. If you can't use it like a real Mac or PC, then it can't replace a real Mac or PC. I would really love to be able to use my iPad Pro for productivity, but until Apple gives the OS features that can let the iPad Pro really be used like a Mac or PC, it is not a true Mac or PC replacement.

And to those who comment on the touch interface not being compatible with point and click devices, you are dead wrong. On my Surface Pro there is the regular Windows 10 desktop, and a Windows 10 touch interface. The mouse point and click works just as well on either interface. Yes, touch does not work as well on the regular Windows 10 desktop interface, but it does work. Office 365 even has settings to allow for a smoother touch experience. I have no doubt that the mouse or touch pad would work just fine in iOS and its apps also.

I have used both Mac and PC since 1990 and like them both. I don't camp out in either camp and refuse to get into the silly useless debates about which is better. They both have their strengths and weaknesses, and to me they are equal in their ability to be fun and productive. The best computer experience, is the one that you like to use most. I am very happy to say that I like them both.

 

[Precursor]

Windows 10 on a 64 GB Tablet will be funny!

 

[0989382]

The Surface is proving to be no more than a vacation for Mac users who quickly find it's actually a poor experience as a laptop and tablet (returning to Mac).. for Windows fans it's a last resort before either settling for less or buying a Mac.

It's not competing with iPad, it's trying to appeal to the last target audience that they haven't targeted before .. oh wait, they did Surface RT.. remember that? Still, iPad is too strong. IF they want to compete with it, I can't see them doing so with anything labelled Surface.

It'll be a very effective marketing tool for the iPad though, and the phrase "For that money, you should have just bought an iPad"

 

[Abazigal]

Countless satisfied Surface owners would disagree. Compared to the iPad (why people keep comparing a Surface to iPad is beyond me), the Surface is far more function. Hell, the simple fact that you can access the file system makes it more useful than an iPad, and that's a simple file explorer function!

Personally, having used an iPad for work for many years now, I have come to accept, even embrace the way iOS handles files. Heck, I find it more convenient to launch an app and have all the relevant files automatically sorted by app, rather than go delving into a file manager and click through countless hierarchies of folders.

Either way, the absence of a file manager hasn't bothered me as much as I thought it would.

 

[NIKKG]

As a former SP4 owner, I concur. With the random reboots, freezes, excessive heat, loud fan, and 1/2 the advertised battery life, I was glad to get rid of the thing. That said, the pen, with magnetic attachment and ability to activate an App through clicking the top (like a real pen) was the best thing about the device.

What are you talking about, I'm typing on the SP4 right now that I had since last year, none of those issues you describe I've experienced. Either your a liar or you had a defective unit. Love my SP4.
[doublepost=1526561745][/doublepost]

Windows will always feel yucky to me. I guess many die-hard Windows users feel the say way about Mac, mostly due to ignorance around the Mac being a true UNIX machine.

You need to try Windows 10 with the April update. Makes Mac OS look ancient.

 

[SeminalSage]

What are you talking about, I'm typing on the SP4 right now that I had since last year, none of those issues you describe I've experienced. Either your a liar or you had a defective unit. Love my SP4.
[doublepost=1526561745][/doublepost]
You need to try Windows 10 with the April update. Makes Mac OS look ancient.

Neither of those apply. If you read the reviews on Microsoft's own website (or Amazons) approximately 1/3 of people had the same issues and were dissatisfied with the SP4.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/sto...Pro-4/8VV4N8VBQG7C?activetab=pivot:reviewstab

https://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Su...show_all_btm?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews

I'm glad you like yours and there were some things I liked about the product (pen, weight, magnetic charger, and plastic exterior eliminated need for a case), but the things I mentioned before hold true and rendered the SP4 completely unusable as a reliable device.

 

[Applefanben]

They are talking of using low-end Intel processors which are terrible for battery, performance, everything. It is really incredible the lead Apple has being able to offer a $299 with a great A10 processor that no rival can compete with.

Dream on Microsoft, you have no hope of competing with iPad.

That is what the people at Microsoft and their fans said when the iPhone was rumored and then released.

Technology is created in order to be made obsolete. Eventually, even our beloved iPad and Apple, if they continue down their current path, will become a shadow of what they are now. Apple has to begin to innovate again. Yes, they have done well with their chips. Yet, overall, they are not doing much other than minor upgrades and ever so slight jumps in design and interaction. Siri is absolutely trash compared to Google’s Assistant (yeah, privacy is not high on their list of priorities) and Alexa (who knows what Amazon is doing with all that data). But, in both cases it has significantly improved and empowered those companies to offer far a superior product in the AI department. Apple, without a major announcement at WWDC, will lose on the AI front.

Microsoft is in a mode of advancing their software to the point that they have a single shell code that runs Windows. Each device has its own window to view that content. It is immediately shareable, regardless of the device. If they master that formula, they will overthrow Apple. Microsoft has always been a software company first while Apple has been a hardware company that makes software for its hardware. Microsoft has begun to shift to being more like Apple which means it is only a matter of time before Microsoft catches Apple (if Apple remains in a constant state of incremental upgrades and advancements).

It might take Microsoft 4 years to get there but anyone with a non-bias look at the companies can see that Microsoft is more exciting than Apple but not as functional...yet. But if Apple continues to mock the 2 in 1 or devices with multifunctional useage, they might find themselves to be the next death in the world of evolving technology.

I don’t know about you, but that is something I never want to see happen. I love my Apple devices but the last three years have shown Microsoft is slowly putting something special together and if they ever put it all together. Apple will find themselves without much of a base left for computing.

Time will tell, I hope I am wrong. Because I want Apple to keep pressing on and being the ones that make the best experience for computing possible.

 

[itguy06]

The Surface is proving to be no more than a vacation for Mac users who quickly find it's actually a poor experience as a laptop and tablet (returning to Mac).. for Windows fans it's a last resort before either settling for less or buying a Mac.

Funny. No vacation here - I'd love to come back to Apple but their products as of late are just not good. Hell, even staunch Mac Evangelists struggle to find good things to say. Some have reverted to the previous versions of the products as they are better (listen to this week's Mac Power Users Podcast).

The HP Spectre I bought in 2017 has been an excellent computer, better than today's Macbook Pros, has been rock solid, and has all the ports you need. The 4k screen is gorgeous. Windows 10 has rough edges but works well. The Ryzen 7 I built in November has been awesome and is a screamer. The new Surface M3 I'm typing this on is a very good tablet and what Apple should have made.

Unless things really change I don't see myself going back. Windows of today isn't nearly as bad as it was and is as reliable as OS X. It's got some neat features as well.

 

[NIKKG]

Neither of those apply. If you read the reviews on Microsoft's own website (or Amazons) approximately 1/3 of people had the same issues and were dissatisfied with the SP4.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/sto...Pro-4/8VV4N8VBQG7C?activetab=pivot:reviewstab

https://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Su...show_all_btm?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews

I'm glad you like yours and there were some things I liked about the product (pen, weight, magnetic charger, and plastic exterior eliminated need for a case), but the things I mentioned before hold true and rendered the SP4 completely unusable as a reliable device.

Dude, it if was that bad, there would be millions of units recalled and it would have been plastered all over the news, especially the tech sites. You must have had a chinese knockoff version of it or something, because I tried out different configs of the SP4 before I bought mines and they were all fine. If your a Mac guy, I'm fine with that, but don't be making up junk just to dis a product.

 

[CarpalMac]

I have a Mac and Surface Pro and now 70-80% of my time is spent using the SP4 and I am very happy with it.

Of course, the Apple defence league present in this thread don't want to hear of happy users. Much easier to dismiss the device as "garbage", such a considered and well justified verdict.

And all this with them being so keen to call others out as being the haters.

 

[NIKKG]

Funny. No vacation here - I'd love to come back to Apple but their products as of late are just not good. Hell, even staunch Mac Evangelists struggle to find good things to say. Some have reverted to the previous versions of the products as they are better (listen to this week's Mac Power Users Podcast).

The HP Spectre I bought in 2017 has been an excellent computer, better than today's Macbook Pros, has been rock solid, and has all the ports you need. The 4k screen is gorgeous. Windows 10 has rough edges but works well. The Ryzen 7 I built in November has been awesome and is a screamer. The new Surface M3 I'm typing this on is a very good tablet and what Apple should have made.

Unless things really change I don't see myself going back. Windows of today isn't nearly as bad as it was and is as reliable as OS X. It's got some neat features as well.

Mac computers are dead. Apple is moving away from it and focusing most of its effort on the iphone, I don't get why people here cling to the past.

When Apple changed its name from Apple Computer to just Apple and calls the Ipad a "computer," that should've been the sign that Macs are dead. If I were a Mac guy, I would start learning Windows 10. They can complain all they want, but that's the truth.

 

[Jimmy Bubbles]

UGH, horrible commercial

What’s a commercial?

 

[eltoslightfoot]

What are you talking about, I'm typing on the SP4 right now that I had since last year, none of those issues you describe I've experienced. Either your a liar or you had a defective unit. Love my SP4.
[doublepost=1526561745][/doublepost]
You need to try Windows 10 with the April update. Makes Mac OS look ancient.

Well then I am a liar as well. I had tons of issues with my SP3 and SP4. The SP2 was rock-solid. I should have stuck with that. Now I just use a Macbook Pro 15 and an iPad Pro + Pencil.

 

[NIKKG]

I have a Mac and Surface Pro and now 70-80% of my time is spent using the SP4 and I am very happy with it.

Of course, the Apple defence league present in this thread don't want to hear of happy users. Much easier to dismiss the device as "garbage", such a considered and well justified verdict.

And all this with them being so keen to call others out as being the haters.

The fact is, most newer Windows 10 laptops are good. I have a Dell 15" 2in1 7573 and SP4 and both are great machines. These days, as long as you have a half-way decent computer with an SSD than there usually aren't any problems.

The Mac guys just been living in the past too long, Apple themselves have effectively dumped the Mac. Time for these guys to see the light.