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I really like what Microsoft is doing here. But it fails completely since it is just a frontend built on top of a still excisting OS. An OS that is still fully accessible - An OS that you will still need to access regularly.

For the sake of backwards compatibility (which has always been Microsofts main priority) real, groundbraking innovation is simply not possible.

What I think they should do is to built a completely new OS. Get rid of all those old windows constraints. And build something new. From the ground up. Then they should keep on updating and supporting the old Windows OS by being true to its roots. While doing the same to the new OS - let's call it Microsoft OS. More and more people will go for Microsoft OS - and at some point it will overtake Windows. At some point it will have matured completely and lead by a huge margin. And boom - Microsoft will actually have a chance in the modern OS war.
 
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Nothing!

Hey, I'm a web developer with a 24" display in front of me.

Will Windows 8 bring anything new and usable for me? I guess not.
 
You're assuming Windows 8 is launching tomorrow. I'd be surprised if Windows 8 launched in 2012.

They just do not have the mental wherewithal with Ballmer at the lead to make a break from the baggage of their history. They demoed this thing running full Microsoft Excel in Aero. Who in their right mind thought this was a good idea for a touch demo? This smacks of the internal battles of old where Office killed tablets when they first were developed at Microsoft.

And you're assuming Office (as was shown) will be the version of Office used in future.

There's Office 365, and then there's Moorea.

Moorea is where it's at:
http://www.winrumors.com/office-15-‘moorea’-tile-based-ui-demonstrated-on-video/

So I guess enterprises, who can't afford to get Moorea, still have the ability to run Office 2010 (which by the way, is probably the best Office ever) in a traditional desktop environment. Newer purchases can move to Moorea, with maybe support for the old desktop environment as well. It looks like MSFT are slowly transitioning to a future where Metro becomes the sole Windows GUI. Whether that's Windows 9 or 10, well only MSFT know.

Metro ftw. What an awesomely fresh GUI *hugs his WP7*
 
Hey, I'm a web developer with a 24" display in front of me.

Will Windows 8 bring anything new and usable for me? I guess not.

You must not be a successful dev then. Suddenly, hundreds of millions of consumers are going to have a new OS, and a new way of interacting with their devices and your content, and you think Windows 8 won't bring anything for you? Serious?

Without even knowing what the developement tools will be, you've effectively just said you don't want to know what the biggest market for your sites will be using to view the web.

And Windows 8 will ship with IE10. Sheesh.
 
Ok - Hold your horses here...

Very interesting.

If 2011 is year of the copycat with the flood of sub-standard Android tablets, it could well be that 2012 is the year of real competition to iOS.

If implemented correctly, Apple's "app-dominance" will really be challenged by this. Apple's trump card with iOS has always been its app-store and its ecosystem.

If a theoretical Windows 8 device could run the millions of windows apps, this really would blow Apple's 350k-app iOS app store out of the water. And if we are talking ecosystems, having seemless integration (and full networking capability) with 85% of all computing devices means you are starting from a pretty strong position.

As others have said - it definately looks like the touch-based OS is really just a shell running over the top of Windows 7, however this is not necessarily a bad thing. It might well end up giving users the best of both worlds. Intuitive and fun touch-based apps for home, and the ability to run real business applications, with real networking, real multitasking and real file systems when required.

This actually really highlights the problem that Apple has with its split operating systems (iOS and OSX). Will make the upcoming iOS5/Lion launch very interesting.

Don't forget - competition is a good thing.

While I see your point regarding the whole ecosystem thing, your theoretical device would have to be running an x86 processor to be able to runs all of those applications. In other words the whole hardware piece would also have to be comparable to iOS hardware in performance, including battery life. Maybe by the time Windows 8 is ready for launch, Intel will have their power consumption down to the level where a x86 10 inch tablet can have the performance of an ARM tablet with the same battery life. But I doubt it.

But it is rumoured that MS is looking to run versions of W8 on ARM architecture - thus creating a bit of fragmentation requiring applications to be designed in both processing environments, right?

I'm not a programmer, but from what I've read that would not be a fun process, and it would go against MS policy of backwards compatibility going all the way back to DOS.

HOWEVER, I would be thoroughly impressed with MS if it did take this leap and actually dare to forge ahead as Apple continuously does with their products. What's the problem with supporting things for a max of 3-4 years? File formats are one thing, but programs and legacy operating systems themselves? Come on, people, that just destroys and puts a ball and chain on innovation, and that is what finally made me throw in the towel with MS in the first place!

What's with all of you tech savvy forum users going all shy on user interface changes? Trackpads and mice are 40 year old technologies! Touch already is more efficient when implemented correctly, and has the potential to exponentially improve the productivity of interacting with a computer compared to a mouse or trackpad in the future.

The future is here - get used to it!

Am I the only one here who truly has replaced their home personal computing network from a server-desktop-laptop to an iPad and a Mac mini as a server? The only thing I can't do is upload files to websites. Everything else a personal home user could ever want to do is just as easily done now with this setup - whether it be streaming music/video all over the household to writing up resumes, family budgets, expense reports, printing, file sharing, blah blah blah, you name it! It may be done slightly differently, but it is just as easy if not easier than it was with a traditional PC/Mac setup of just a couple of years ago.

And it is only going to improve! That's the beauty of it!

I am fully aware that the computer professionals out there still need the powerful creating tools that currently only traditional machines can provide - but the UI's of those systems are inevitably going to merge with these newer devices as they become more mainstream, and very soon one will not be able distinguish the performance and capability difference at all and due to demand these creation tools will become available on the new devices.

In 5 years this will be a whole different landscape! Hardly recognisable if you keep your eyes shut for too long...out with the old and in with the new!!!
 
even though i have an iphone and a mbp, i gotta say i really like this where they're going for it. The old windows 7 layer they were demoing with excel will most likely be updated too, i think today they just mainly wanted to focus on the start screen.

on another note, its amazing how much a bit of color can change the ambience of the tiles. windows phone 7 with its black background and accent-colored tiles looks a drab boring compared to the same tiles with bright purple or green background. wish microsoft would let users set some sort of background color or photo to the start screen in windows phone 7.
 
Windows 8 seems like an interesting mix of innovation and crud.

The UI is different, but I wouldn't go calling it innovative - yet, because ms has no faith in it. They need to cut the cord with all of the legacy garbage.

Non-touch optimized apps. shouldn't even run on a tablet.

Skinning windows with a touch interface isn't terribly innovative either - ms had a great opportunity to strip out a lot of junk, but chose not to.

Not a fan of the tiles interface, but obviously iOS needs something to provide a better degree of organization for casual users. Maybe by iOS 6 we'll see something.

This is far more innovative than anything Google has done with Android. That interface is very original and the gestures being used for multi-tasking are very interesting.

What I do not think will work well in that touch environment are the legacy Windows apps. You notice how little time he spent on Excel running in this touch environment? Basically it will run and you can look at things, but editing a document via touch interface with an app that was designed for keyboard and mouse will be painful.

Everything that was designed for touch in that video looked fantastic. The legacy stuff is going to be a checkmark on their compatibility scorecard, but a big fat red X on their usability scorecard.

The whole tiles-based Windows Phone UI is the most refreshing thing I have seen out of MS in a while (besides the Kinect). I love Apple's stuff and prefer it usually, but Jobs said it best at D9 in 2008 -- that Microsoft, first and foremost, is a software company and they were the first ones to show others what a software company should be. Its nice to see Microsoft innovating rather than straight-copying their competition.

I can't stand it when folks just try to copy Apple. Not because I feel like they are creating cheap Apple knock-offs to take Apple's market share, but because we as consumers are being cheated out of innovation that could-have-been. MS has done its share of copying, but this UI is innovative and should help fuel the competitive innovative fires in the industry. For so long now it seems that most of the fuel for those fires has come from Apple.

I'm very interested to see how Windows 8 evolves over the next few months.
 
Of course Windows OS will outsell Mac OS. With 92% of the market, they're going to move more product. I think another important issue is adoption rate...

According to the latest data I could find for Windows usage in the US: 21% use Windows 7; 24% use Vista; 51% use XP; and 4% "other".

The latest data I could find for Apple shows the following: 68% use Snow Leopard; 24% use Leopard; 6% use Tiger; and 2% "other".

With a majority of Windows users still using an OS that they released in 2001, I'm not convinced that Windows 7 was a success.

I'd venture to bet that just about any company on earth would consider selling 350 million units of product in 18 months a success. How many 2011 cars are on the road vs cars made in the last 5 years?
 
It's not crazy. Its a slow adoption of Windows 7. Investors would like more sales of 7 for sure. Especially given the large amount of piracy of Windows that MS has complained about.

And so again I wonder will Windows 8 customers be the 1/3 of Windows users who bought 7? Or will XP customers upgrade?

I just don't see why it matters which version of a Microsoft OS they buy or use...

Plus... there is a huge install-base of XP machines that will never be upgraded with a boxed copy of Windows 7.

Those people will get Windows 7 when they finally buy a new computer.

And I don't know why you keep railing on XP... it's not like those people went out and bought a copy of XP yesterday. They've been using it for a few years or more. I doubt those machine could even run Windows 7.

And even if they DID go buy a copy of XP yesterday... it's still a Microsoft sale!

As long as they don't switch to a Mac or Linux... they are still using a Microsoft OS.

And I'm still confused when you say Windows 7 had slow adoption... it was the fastest selling Microsoft OS in history!

Again... you're not gonna get every XP machine upgraded to Windows 7.... have you seen some of those shitboxes people are still running?
 
Apparently another change in Windows 8 is a black screen of death instead of a blue screen of death. I saw a picture of it.

Is this coming out in 2012?

I also hear the registration code will double in length but I don't know if I trust that rumor. Those are fun to enter though so maybe.

Anyway MS hopefully won't implement anything like the xbox UI. Those blades are so annoying.

The blades have been gone from the xbox for a very long time. Windows 8 looks awesome and puts OS X to even more shame.
 
I kinda liked the look. Neat and simple, and once you have the bits you want where you want them (I presume that all those tiles can be moved around), I expect that it'd be very quick to locate what you're after.

What bothers me more and more is that the menu bar, which contains a nice list of a program's functions, is being more and more deprecated. I installed Windows Firefox 4 recently, and there was no menu bar. Freaked me out. Only when I discovered that you can click on a piece of text in an orange shape in the window's title bar were the functions of the program revealed. In other programs (e.g. Chrome), the mystery 'button' that you click to see a list of functions is somewhere else and looks completely different. I find this absurd.

Rather than simply looking in the menus, which almost all programs once had, to see a list of things which the program can do, to find the thing I want, I have to hunt around the interface looking for some mystery button or who-knows-what!

If the menu bar disappears, I expect that many programs will be HARDER to learn to use.

Grrrr...!
A.
 
Of course Windows OS will outsell Mac OS. With 92% of the market, they're going to move more product. I think another important issue is adoption rate...

According to the latest data I could find for Windows usage in the US: 21% use Windows 7; 24% use Vista; 51% use XP; and 4% "other".

The latest data I could find for Apple shows the following: 68% use Snow Leopard; 24% use Leopard; 6% use Tiger; and 2% "other".

With a majority of Windows users still using an OS that they released in 2001, I'm not convinced that Windows 7 was a success.

If people are still using XP... it's probably on a machine they've had for a very long time.

They didn't buy that XP machine last month or last year. It's not like people are buying Windows XP instead of Windows 7.

Most people don't buy boxed copies of a new OS... they wait until they buy a new computer. Any new computer bought in the last 18 months has Windows 7 on it.

Should everyone rush out and buy a new computer when Microsoft launches a new OS? Most computers last more than a couple years nowadays.

Plus... how many of those XP machines are in the enterprise? That's a whole other issue.
 
If people are still using XP... it's probably on a machine they've had for a very long time.

They didn't buy that XP machine last month or last year. It's not like people are buying Windows XP instead of Windows 7.

Most people don't buy boxed copies of a new OS... they wait until they buy a new computer. Any new computer bought in the last 18 months has Windows 7 on it.

Should everyone rush out and buy a new computer when Microsoft launches a new OS? Most computers last more than a couple years nowadays.

Plus... how many of those XP machines are in the enterprise? That's a whole other issue.

XP still has a huge installed base in the business world. They don't update every few years.
 
Hm. At first I was very "wtf", but as soon as I see some demonstration videos of the Metro layer using a mouse instead of a finger, I'll be able to better pass judgement. The problem Microsoft tends to have is they have innovative ideas, but they tend to be rather bad at executing/implementing them. WP7 signaled a change for the better, perhaps this will continue the trend.

That said, I'm also hoping Win8's reliance on HTML5 for apps will create enough pressure for the OGG/WebM camp to concede in the media tag war.

Also, Gruber definitely has a point as far as the Excel issue is concerned, but I'm pretty sure (1) that Microsoft included that in the demo video to show that Win8 will still have some form of compatibility for legacy programs and (2) that Office 2013 or 2014 or whatever will be designed to run in the Metro UI (or possibly both the Taskbar and the Metro interfaces and let users choose/switch around).
 
Used Macs since they were first out and always hated Windows...but...I have to say, this one hell of a brave move and it looks pretty sweet. It's actually a relief not to see a kazillion icons, and the live tiles are much better for conveying information fast.

Will be interesting to see how it works in real life, because touch screens are great on smaller devices but not really relevant for a desktop IMO, and it will lose a lot of it's appeal using keyboards and mouse I reckon.

Good effort though.
 
That surely looks good for the wrapper and they way they have implemented it.

But that's just a wrapper. :|
 
XP still has a huge installed base in the business world. They don't update every few years.

Exactly.

Maybe Windows 7 isn't being adopted as fast a someone would like it to... but 350 million copies in 18 months is hardly a failure, as someone said earlier.

If there is someone using a 5 year old machine with XP on it... they are certainly not gonna run out and buy a copy of Windows 7 (would it even run?)

That's life. That's the Windows legacy. Not everybody upgrades.
 
You're kidding, right?

This looks nothing like iOS. It makes iOS4 look like a child's toy OS. Apple better bring some heat next week or they're about to be leapfrogged in terms of software.

This is nothing more than a bunch of widgets sitting atop its own desktop layer. While it makes for a kind of pretty picture, it's hardly innovative or leapfrogging over anything.
 
Exactly.

Maybe Windows 7 isn't being adopted as fast a someone would like it to... but 350 million copies in 18 months is hardly a failure, as someone said earlier.

If there is someone using a 5 year old machine with XP on it... they are certainly not gonna run out and buy a copy of Windows 7 (would it even run?)

That's life. That's the Windows legacy. Not everybody upgrades.

Most of the older XP machines won't run Windows 7 well, and IE 9 won't run on XP. As you have said, a large percentage of users only upgrade when they buy a new machine, and the business world only updates when necessary. Much of the financial world is running on XP. Of course a few users here don't seem to understand that. They fear Microsoft for some reason.
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8J2 Safari/6533.18.5)

Definitely a new approach for MS, but I don't see that touch interface working well with mouse and keyboard, or the standard interface working well with touch. This whole touch interface just looks like a skin to me.

It feels like a skin on top of Windows 7 much like Windows ME was a skin on top of DOS.
 
Windows 8 seems like an interesting mix of innovation and crud.

The UI is different, but I wouldn't go calling it innovative - yet, because ms has no faith in it. They need to cut the cord with all of the legacy garbage.

Non-touch optimized apps. shouldn't even run on a tablet.

Apple want to have a clear separation between a touch device and a "full" computer, and yet you can still attach a keyboard to an iPod. Why not a mouse? Or a printer? Make it bluetooth enabled and allow other devices to connect to it.

Skinning windows with a touch interface isn't terribly innovative either - ms had a great opportunity to strip out a lot of junk, but chose not to.

The GUI of iOS/OS X are in actuality just skins. You can think of it as just another app. Apple restricts a given device to a given skin. Microsoft allows you to run either skin on any device.

It's a matter of two orthogonal design philosophies.

One is not automatically better than the other. There are things you cannot do today on an iPad that you can do on a laptop. Wouldn't it be useful if the iPad could run the OS X GUI interface side by side with the iOS interface? That would mean, for example, that you could pair a mouse/keyboard to it and just use it as any other laptop.
 
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Not impressed. It's simply WP7 and Win 7 next to each other.

Or you are on a tablet and the html-mode is handy, or you are on a pc and well... windows 7 I guess. Also not much work to get the html5 apps and the regular win apps next to each other if the apps are html5 and js, probably just a fullscreen launch of IE10 or so.

This changes nothing for 99,9% of the users of windows. Actualy, 100%.
 
Not impressed. It's simply WP7 and Win 7 next to each other.

Or you are on a tablet and the html-mode is handy, or you are on a pc and well... windows 7 I guess. Also not much work to get the html5 apps and the regular win apps next to each other if the apps are html5 and js, probably just a fullscreen launch of IE10 or so.

This changes nothing for 99,9% of the users of windows. Actualy, 100%.

Are you sure about that? :rolleyes:
 
And you're assuming Office (as was shown) will be the version of Office used in future.

There's Office 365, and then there's Moorea.

Moorea is where it's at:
http://www.winrumors.com/office-15-‘moorea’-tile-based-ui-demonstrated-on-video/

So I guess enterprises, who can't afford to get Moorea, still have the ability to run Office 2010 (which by the way, is probably the best Office ever) in a traditional desktop environment. Newer purchases can move to Moorea, with maybe support for the old desktop environment as well. It looks like MSFT are slowly transitioning to a future where Metro becomes the sole Windows GUI. Whether that's Windows 9 or 10, well only MSFT know.

Metro ftw. What an awesomely fresh GUI *hugs his WP7*

QFT

Like it or not, Metro is the future, while iOS and OS X remain in the stagnation of "home screens" or "Desktops" with grid-like interfaces. For at least five years drastic UI changes have been rumored with every new OS X variant.

I just want them to arrive...
 
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