I wouldn't lump Anuba and Aidenshaw in with the others. They're definitely more objective.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Microsoft Remains on Offensive with 'Apple Tax' Report and Latest Laptop Ad
- Thread starter Eidorian
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I wouldn't lump Anuba and Aidenshaw in with the others. They're definitely more objective.
Regardless, Antivir and AVG are still free (and good, just not slow and bloated beyond all decency like Norton) so whether the user wants AV or not, it's still not an additional cost.
All the protection you need against stuff like Conficker is to leave automatic Windows updates enabled. They took care of Conficker some 6 months before the overhyped Armageddon day (April 1), a day which unsurprisingly went by as smoothly as January 1, 2000.
Read their posts carefully. They're just better thought out and mature trolls but they're trolls nonetheless. Especially AidenShaw. He'll sometimes take a shot at Windows and agree with a Mac user, but then it's right back to Apple bashing.
actually i think one should start a "my side is the best, no my side is the best" thread where the interested ones can bash their heads in. then threads like these can stay on topic. because i for one actually am interested in talking about the ads as they are since this is sort of work related for me. and i guess many more people around here would find that a bit more interesting.
my 2 cents
my 2 cents
Still requires users to actively install something and make sure it works. It's also another source of failure or problems. When your anti-virus stops working or does something funky to the system, you have to repair it.
Conficker has started downloading its payload : http://www.itpro.co.uk/610478/new-variant-of-conficker-strikes.
While you can brush it aside and say automatic updates do it all, it's not quite true. A lot of people got hit with it even so. Also, automatic updates aren't as automatic as you seem to say. Windows prompts you when it's done downloading any new updates before installing them. This is not really evident either, since it's either on shutdown or if you click on the tray icon which most people don't have a clue about.
Most PCs today are configured for hibernation from OEMs. My mom had 6 months of "automatic updates" queued up. I had to explain to her that since the computer never shuts down, she has to click the icon.
Of course, if you want to claim that just automatic updates is fine, then I'll do one better. A software firewall would've prevented conficker. No wait, no need for that, just the fact that you're NATing your Internet connexion by default gives you a sort of firewall (everything is dropped at the NAT box unless explicitly forwarded).
If you really think security is about 1 measure only, you're going to get it. Different security threats target different intrusion vectors. Of course, on Windows, they're still trying to integrate a solid multi-user security model on an ancient platform made for single users without restrictions. They also try to always include everything and the kitchen sink (because seriously, who uses VBA in Outlook ?) resulting in other intrusion vectors that never existed before (Viruses are only found in executables silly, not documents/images/e-mails/audio/video).
No, we're spotting trolls because they're 100% against Apple and obviously just trying to get a rise out of people.
Want, need, whatever -- families are buying truckloads of minitowers this very minute so they obviously want them. Families featuring at least one gaming-obsessed teenage son are not unheard of, last time I checked.A family absolutely needs a tower computer when they are never going to even upgrade it ?
A Live account gives access to web mail, instant messaging, 25 GB of storage, online photo gallery, blog etc. That's right, Windows Live SkyDrive is 25 GB of free storage (I believe you get 20 GB with MobileMe).
The Live platform also includes the Outlook and Office connectors which gives you two-way sync between the applications and the cloud. There doesn't appear to be any calendar or bookmark sync at the moment, though, but the big rollout for the Live platform (some things are still in beta) will coincide with the Windows 7 launch so I'm guessing that the missing parts will show up soon enough.
Leave it to Apple to charge a subscription fee for something that should be a free perk you get with the premium you paid...
MS was doing something with Live for Mac too; I wonder about that 25GB of free storage. That'd be sweet. Regardless, I could still use it on my Thinkpad if it was Win only.
People buy laptops for different reasons and uses.
Not everyone is a road warrior who carries the laptop around all day, or through airport after airport.
Most consumer laptops sit on the desk - they are replacing desktops, after all. They may get moved on occasion, but an 11 year old kid probaby isn't going to have a 16" laptop in his book bag every day.
So, if battery life, weight and thickness are important to you - fine. Just don't call a laptop junk because it doesn't meet your requirements, it may be better for some people than what you need.
The new Dell Latitudes have a "battery slice" - it's a thin battery the same size as the laptop, that clips to the bottom and plugs into the docking connector. "Click" and the laptop is a cm thicker, a bit heavier - but goes for 16 to 20 hours.
I'm surprised Apple doesn't do something like that - it would silence almost all of the complaints about the non-user-replaceable battery in the 17".
Hmmm... "Docking station" - that could be another "Laptop Hunter" ad that Microsoft could air.
It looks like the latest Norton version has improved a lot...
It's really all or nothing with you right ? Apple doesn't make gaming desktops towers. There is absolutely no reason to compare the Mac Pro with a gaming tower, the Mac Pro isn't a gaming tower. Last I checked, Fiberchannel cards aren't exactly a gaming feature and neither is ECC ram or Xeon processors.
Basically, you're saying the comparison is valid because it's Apple's "closest" product ? Why then let's compare Hyundai's pick-up truck to a Ford F-150. Wait what ? Hyundai doesn't make pick-ups ? Fine, let's use the Sante Fe as a basis for comparison, it's also a sort of truck thing.
Companies aren't obligated in any way to offer products for all segments of a given market. Companies usually pick and choose segments that they believe they can serve best. Apple has decided (I feel I'm repeating myself again here) that the low-end/mid-range upgradeable (yes I am...) market segment is not one they want to compete in.
Last I checked, Live accounts are platform agnostic. Same with Google accounts.
So I ask again, why is MobileMe included in the price ? Oh right, the only reason is to drive up the Mac's price. Seriously, if you're not a troll, now is the time to prove. Just agree with this point that has been made about 300 times now in this very thread. That paper is trash. Even pro-Windows, pro-PC people can't seriously see the flaws in that comparison. You claim that it's easy to spot the Apple tax, why do you then need this flawed paper to do so if it's so easy ? Why are you even defending this paper ?
This sounds as irrational as all those Apple users you're accusing of buying a product that is more expensive than the competition and offers fewer products.
I can put up with fanboyism from both sides, but man, that is just paranoid. You're actually scanning posts for subliminal messages between the lines? Careful or you'll end up in a shed full of newspaper clippings like Russell Crowe in A Beautiful Mind.
I'm not overly impressed with the Live platform and there are many parts of it I don't use (SkyDrive included, actually... I just don't see the need). But one thing is for sure, out of 100 of one's friends, 99 are on Messenger and not iChat so it's just one of those things you have to get.
OMG! So you're saying that when whitefang and mosx beat that dead horse of "PERFORMANCE PERFORMANCE PERFORMANCE!" they might not be taking into account that people have different needs ? That somehow, someone just might not care about geekbench numbers of a 10 lbs hulking monster, because it has a tendency to break airline platters ?
Which was the very point I was trying to make, in a subtle way, by asking about battery life of their Quad-core, RAID 0, SLI laptops (I know all those things weren't said in this thread alone)
Your posts are far from subtle and just replying to you and having to counter many of your points made it obvious. Don't worry, I'm not psychoanalyzing you. The fact that your posts are well thought out and mature doesn't mean they aren't transparent or non-obvious. They're just not "foaming at the mouth" like some others.
First of all, HP, Gateway, and Toshiba laptops are, in my humble opinion, crap. I know my personal anecdotes don't mean quite as much as other people's anecdotes, but having repaired a ton of HPs, Gateways, and Toshibas in my day, I feel confident in saying that.
Second, I realize the Precision is aimed at a different buyer; which is why I stated in my post responding to Anuba that it's aimed at a different market, and that I wouldn't buy it.
Me said:
Good, so even less reason to charge money for MobileMe then.
First, you need to calm down. You're starting to sound like some mafioso kid whose family's honor has been insulted. Trust me, Apple is not your family.
Secondly -- I didn't write the paper so lose the Spanish inquisition attitude like it was my personal responsibility. Sure, the paper has lots of flaws. I think the concept is good, and using a tax form is a nice touch, but the execution is pretty bad. All they had to do is make a simple feature-by-feature comparison between a PC and a Mac with near-identical components and specs, which is how the Apple Tax is usually calculated. There's no point in bringing arbitrary software choices into the mix because those parameters are too subjective and unpredictable. I still agree 100% with the Mac Pro comparison, though. They have their pants down in the minitower department whether you like it or not.
Did Apple ever do anything wrong in your book? You're like the evil Spock version of mosx, who insisted that Windows ME worked fine (that's where I draw the line; it was garbage). You scramble for excuses for even the dumbest and most notorious of Apple's bad moves, so I have to ask.
I'm not over reacting nor do I particularly care about Apple. I never said you wrote the paper, just that you are defending it, which you were until you finally admitted it was flawed. If it is flawed, then it can be dismissed until something that isn't flawed is put on the table.
As for the Mac Pro (...
... ) willingly choosing not to participate in a market segment and being caught with your pants down is very different. They already participated and dropped the segment. Trying to force them back in kicking and screaming (by using these useless comparison) is not going to work and in the end, it just shows a lack of comprehension by the people doing the comparisons themselves.That ship has sailed, that horse is dead. Move on people.
The Dell 2408 24" monitors have two slots - one for CF, the other small one for xD/SD/MS/MMC.
There's quite a bit of misinformation here, unfortunately.
There are four options for Windows Update: Automatic Update, Download and Notify, Notify Only, and Disabled.
Whoever changed your mom's system from "Automatic Update" to "Download and Notify" is responsible for her problem with the six month queue.
As far as sleep/hibernation - Windows will wake the computer from sleep or hibernation for the 3AM (or whenever) update cycle, install the updates, then return to sleep/hibernate.
Anuba's claim that automatic updates would have prevented any infection is valid - your mom's machine does not have automatic update working.
NAT would have blocked it - unless you brought it in from the outside. Sit at an open WiFi network without current updates and AV - scary.
Anuba, let's just collect our checks from Microsoft and continue posting. No need to respond to the personal attacks.
Lose these victory speeches like you were some cop who finally squeezed out a confession. There is no "finally admitted", I've never delivered any full verdict on the paper nor have I talked about it at any length, all I did was address a couple of points that FF_productions made. No cookie for you, sorry.
As opposed to OSX, which is a mish-mosh of 64-bit underneath and a 32-bit finder... Hmm I wonder why Apple can't make finder 64-bit so easily. At least Microsoft quietly pulled off a fully 64-bit OS that is backwards compatible with the 32-bit stuff.
And BTW I run Vista 64 on almost all my PCs, it doesn't run 32-bit apps poorly (I'm sure you can give me an example to prove otherwise surely it's not just FUD right? Cause it runs all my stuff just fine.). Really, stop the FUD, Vista 64 is quite good.
Translation: I don't have an HDTV and I don't ever explore beyond the boundaries of my Mac cocoon and I have no idea what I'm missing.
I guarantee you Blu-Ray players have outsold Apple TV by a factor of 10:1 or 20:1 if not worse, not to mention all those Playstation 3 units out there. There are something like 3 million stand-alone Blu-Ray players and 10 million PS3s. That's millions of Blu-Ray players out there NOW. Talk about "crap no one buys for their living room", it's Apple TV.
I doubt Apple releases sales figures, but at best it's 200,000 units. At best. I'm being hugely generous. It's clear to everybody that Blu-Ray is following in DVD's footsteps and online media just isn't ready for prime time yet, not in this generation.Apple is selling compressed-to-hell 720p videos that aren't portable. It's garbage compared to a 1080p Blu-Ray with lossless sound. Of course you've probably never seen one so your comparison is based on, what exactly?
Has any single iTunes movie sold 1 million copies? Cause Dark Knight on Blu-Ray sold 1 million copies on Blu-Ray in its first week alone (600,000 on day one). And it looks gorgeous. Again guess which one will be chosen by customers?
Yeah, guess which one will be chosen by customers. It's already happened, you just don't know it.
When you buy anything else, do you pay more because the manufacturer developed internal components in-house instead of getting off the shelf components? Do you care? Are you supposed to?
Nope, I checked and she is on "Automatic Updates". No download or notify or just notify. So it doesn't seem to be working as smoothly as you point out. This is anecdotal evidence, but still might not just be her computer.
And my mom didn't get conficker, because she's using a NAT box. I wouldn't leave her computer fully unprotected on the Internet like I used to do with my Linux desktop.
Actually, that's 21 million PS3s world-wide.
I'm happy for Sony that they finally won a format war. There was the Betamax vs. VHS war -- oops, sorry guys. Then there was MiniDisc. For a while there when mp3 had just taken off and stuff like iPod and iRiver players swamped the market, Sony were desperetaly trying to push the MD format by making players with USB connection. They deserved to win this one.
Yes, Sony never won a format war
. Without going into a list, 3.5" floppies were a Sony format, amongst others.
speaking of antivirus software, I hear the Norton Gaming Edition is good. This is a follow up on the previous page =)