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your too one track-minded, to get the same work done you dont HAVE to use adobe products, you can even run GIMP off the live cd...

GIMP's claim to fame is that its free. That fact doesn't make it magically a better or more powerful tool.

The last time that I seriously looked at GIMP, I found that its Color management and CMYK separation were both vastly inferior, and it still only supported 8 bit channels.

Plus GIMP doesn't do portfolio management.

Thus, its nowhere near "compelling" for me to change from my Status Quo.


same with music..

Where did I say that I cared even one iota about music?

And preemptively, "ditto" for the Blu-Ray vs. DVD debate war. Sorry, but I'm not interested in that trash: our obligatory DVD player gets run for more hours/year with our own original content than any of that drivel from Hollywood.


-hh
 
I guess there's only a few of us that don't quite understand the absurdity behind PC versus Apple or Windows versus OSX flame wars. They both are tools serving quite vastly different market interests. Some people want lower cost products and don't care much about how it looks or how it's designed. Others want better looking products and are willing to pay for the award winning design. Neither are right. Both just have different needs, served better by different vendors.

I like them both. Here's my Air running OSX sitting right next to my Dell running Windows 7. The Air is considerably more sexy and better looking, while the Dell is considerably more dull and looks like a workhorse but was inexpensive. The world didn't explode when I used them both at the same time. Somewhere an Apple fanboy and a PC fanboy both just gasped in horror, but who cares what those close minded buffoons think anyway?
 

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I guess there's only a few of us that don't quite understand the absurdity behind PC versus Apple or Windows versus OSX flame wars. They both are tools serving quite vastly different market interests. Some people want lower cost products and don't care much about how it looks or how it's designed. Others want better looking products and are willing to pay for the award winning design. Neither are right. Both just have different needs, served better by different vendors.

I like them both. Here's my Air running OSX sitting right next to my Dell running Windows 7. The Air is considerably more sexy and better looking, while the Dell is considerably more dull and looks like a workhorse but was inexpensive. The world didn't explode when I used them both at the same time. Somewhere an Apple fanboy and a PC fanboy both just gasped in horror, but who cares what those close minded buffoons think anyway?

I hope you're running W7 x64 with 64bit Photoshop. :D
 
Microsoft's strategy with these ads is the same one as with the ones with Jerry Seinfeld. The philosophy behind those ads is "Windows is for everyone, we don't distinguish people, we have something for everybody, we're inside both cheap and powerful computers, we connect people, life without walls, etc"...


Ah yes... the same "Be Everything for Everyone" marketing approach that is working so well for GM.


-hh
 
Let us hope the moderators close this one down. We appear to be going around in circles now. Besides this is now boring.

The last thread is about 1500 posts into going in circles. The one before that was only closed because it surpassed the Steve on Firewire thread, with about 4 posts of not going in circles.

GIMP's claim to fame is that its free. That fact doesn't make it magically a better or more powerful tool.

The last time that I seriously looked at GIMP, I found that its Color management and CMYK separation were both vastly inferior, and it still only supported 8 bit channels.

That's because the GIMP quit on even trying to get those features in. Their userbase is mostly a bunch of Web developers and people that just want to hack something together quick and the project was forked to produce the professional level app that it was trying to be.

Now if you want those features, you need Cinepaint, which is the Gimp-film project's new name :

http://www.cinepaint.org/about.html

This one has more professional level features, but I doubt it's on Ubuntu's live CD.
 
The Apple clone market is what almost killed Apple in the 90s. You said you've been using Macs for 15 years, you must remember the Microsoft deal and the darker years...

The Mac market and the Mac itself have COMPLETELY changed since the 1990s. I'm sick of seeing this ridiculous comparison. Macs are now Intel based and can run Windows. OS X is vastly better than OS9 (OS9 compared POORLY to Windows98 and that's the REAL thing that almost killed the Mac) and I would say OS X is vastly better than Vista. The fact that you are allowed to run Windows on Mac hardware (which is just clone hardware internally anyway), but not allowed to run OS X on a Windows computer (due to Apple, not Microsoft) just smacks of hypocrisy on Apple's part. The ONLY reason they do not allow you to install OS X on anyone's hardware is that they make ungodly amounts of profit selling you a $1000 computer for $2700. The problem is that it's also slowly ruining their reputation and the Micorosoft ads are a DIRECT result of that. Why not poke at their insatiable GREED? I honestly thought NO ONE could approach the greed of Bill Gates and company and their dirty underhanded business tactics that put companies like Commodore out of business in the '90s (and almost Apple too) and it's the #1 reason I started looking into a Mac as my next computer when it came time to upgrade.

I wanted nothing to do with Microsoft anymore, but sadly I've found Apple is 10x worse when it comes to dirty business tactics and anti-competition. They'll stoop to things like putting control chips in headphone dongles, not using a standard female interface to connect the headphones themselves (hard-wired) and then charge any company out there a big fee to get that control chip in order to offer compatible headphones with their iPod when all they had to do was include a female headphone jack at the end of the control cord. THAT is the heart of Apple today and that is the sheer GREED that will be their eventual undoing if they don't start changing. Once Windows7 is out and IF it's as good as some say, the Vista is crap advantage will be gone.

Once other cell phone makers start catching up with the iPhone in terms of usability, that niche won't be such a cachet draw to Apple either. What will they sell their computers on then? Slow video cards, laptop speed parts in so-called "desktops", obscene prices for their lowest-end true desktop (Mac Pro tower) that is overpowered in some areas for a typical consumer and woefully underpowered in other areas (e.g. graphics). Macs used to be the premier video computer. Now they're falling far behind Windows. Gaming is a JOKE on a Mac in both OS support and GPUs shipped so that niche is pointless/lost for the foreseeable future. The quality of Mac hardware seems to be slipping anymore (e.g. last year's MBP GPU, keyboard debacle before that, lack of screen choices, etc.) Once Windows catches up in the ease-of-use department, there is nothing left but the lack of viruses, etc. and that could change at any time (especially as the market share is currently growing and hackers are noticing how many iPhones are out there and they run a form of OS X alslo).

Apple seems to be betting the farm on the iPhone/iPod market anymore. They should wise up before it's too late. They could have used this time of Vista failure to REALLY go on the attack and get OS X market share out there. Instead, they seem to want to play the same "milk the existing market" game instead of trying harder to attract new Windows switchers. The ones they are attracting are more on Vista's failure than OS X's strengths, IMO. It sure isn't because you get better hardware bang for your buck because you absolutely do not. Apple needs to wake up and start looking past the next quarter.
 
Ah yes... the same "Be Everything for Everyone" marketing approach that is working so well for GM.
Well... GM is on the verge of bankruptcy and Microsoft is controlling 90% of the market. Obviously the "everything for everyone" factor wasn't the problem.

GM's downfall was that they went on a multi-decade shopping spree and collected brands from all over the world like trophies, then they diluted the value of all those brands by thinking you can just slap a Chevrolet badge on a Daewoo or a Saab badge on a Subaru without anyone noticing. An Opel is a Vauxhall is a Holden is a Saturn... Since brand loyalty is kind of a cornerstone in the car business, and GM displayed zero loyalty toward their own brands, the customers did the same. Say what you will about Microsoft but I don't think you can accuse them of not staying true to their brand. Whether you think they make good products or bad, they're the same Microsoft they always were. Windows is still Windows. Daewoo is not a Corvette Stingray.
 
I don't know where this "Windows can't handle multiple cores/CPUs" FUD came from.

XP handled them just fine and so does Vista. The applications are the ones that need to provide the support for scaling beyond a single thread. Process scheduling is Windows works just fine otherwise.

Very true. From what I remember, the only apps that are core aware in Apple's Pro suites is Compressor, and (I just got the new version) it doesn't run that well to begin with.

With low profit margins they'll end up like Dell. They've found their niche - computer for those who like mac os and can afford its hidden price - why change anything?

And then people begin to throw in it third-party cards, third pary drivers, kernel panics and blame Apple for this like all windows users do?

This is true. Apple cares more about it's image and it's profit then it does competing with far superior machines. The only thing Apple really does well is marketing, and convincing droves of normal people better served by PCs to get their $1300 entry laptop, and convincing droves of once loyal Apple users that they haven't changed/abandoned the pro market/limited choices/lowered quality control/FUBAR'ed the pro apps/etc. or locked them into a system that caters to upgrading an entire machine after two years.
 
You ignore the fact that like PCs, 3rd party OEMs will have their own warranty services. Applecare has nothing to do with it.

And you've obviously never dealt with a hardware vendor claiming it's a software issue and a software vendor claiming the same issue is a hardware one.

Apple, with it's integrated product, can't ping pong you around.
 
Bingo

Where iphoto really comes in to it's own, is how it fits into the other products.

Scrubbing through the photos in a folder is neat,but it's when you start making iWeb galleries and uploading straight from an iphone - then it becomes really useful.

The joy of mac is how it works together,

Like making a tune in garageband I'd movie in imovie -then one button will share it with iWeb and 1 button will publish it.

It's not that if all works, but that it all works together.

That is why I love mac.


I want to email a bunch of people pics of my 5mo daughter? no prob - select the images in iPhoto and click, click, click! done!

Having a party? set a calendar date and click, click, click! everyone knows.

Want to put together a slick brochure or kickass presentation? No problem, I'm ready to go as soon as I plug my machine in.

The list goes on and on, and I'm still in 10.3.9! I can't wait to get a new machine here in a couple months. It's even better! Yeah. I'll pay an extra few hundred for that. That and a case that's rock solid and doesn't look like a home made toy made from old discarded parts?

Say what you want about the "Apple Tax", but I feel like the product I buy is worth it when I pull it out of the box and turn it on. It exceeds my expectations. It is a joy to use. Until Apple effs that up for me, I will continue to use their products.
 
This is true. Apple cares more about it's image and it's profit then it does competing with far superior machines. The only thing Apple really does well is marketing, and convincing droves of normal people better served by PCs to get their $1300 entry laptop, and convincing droves of once loyal Apple users that they haven't changed/abandoned the pro market/limited choices/lowered quality control/FUBAR'ed the pro apps/etc. or locked them into a system that caters to upgrading an entire machine after two years.
Disenchanted and disenfranchised professional users are easily replaced with switcher droves. :(
 
...I like them both....

I agree. And am in the market for a Mac Pro. As it stands, I can get a HUGE discount on one if I wait for my paper to do a capital purchase sometime next year (if they don't file for bankruptcy).

If they do and I can't get one. A Dell or HP tower may adorn the desk.

Also, I would like to have a cheap netbook to move around with me when I am not cutting on the go, and since Apple's start at $1799, the Asus or HP may be the way to go for at most $550.

Yeah, Apple's piss poor software is really going to screw them over. And they should just forget about hardware, 'cause they really suck at it too.

Right now, with my limited OS knowledge (as in the inner workings of the OS, not the application) I just don't love Apple's Pro apps... and mainly Final Cut Studio with emphasis on Compressor, DVD Studio Pro, and Motion 3; and Aperture 2.

If Apple could pair their OS with the hardware of the rest of the computer market they'd have a winner.
 
It out puts just 5.1. Yawn Boring.
You have to try the X-FI Crystallizer to realize what it is. It boosts audio quality in a way that it fills the room and enriches it. It makes music "refreshing" to hear. It's hard to describe it. Don't mistake the crystallizer for a EQ balancer. It's not. Again, you have to try it to believe it.

The macbook uses external DAC to achieve 5.1. Macbook's audio component is no match for the X-FI and unless you have $2000 speaker system, the speaker system's DAC is no match for the X-FI either. Even the Z-5500 built-in DAC cannot compare to the X-FI. The Crsytallizer function beats it.

All you can do to audio once you get it is either EQ or Compress it in one fashion or another so yes it actually is an EQ...

*EDIT* sorry you can flip it out phase too but then you might as well call it a Bose...

It's the quality of the sound. The refreshing, the enrichment of the sound. I guess some people are pleased with the minimal.
There are so many qualifiers to make what you are saying true. cabling, speakers, speaker placement, amplifiers, room acoustics, Just for starters...

The quality of the sound really isn't a whole lot different, your still listening to what? 24bit/48k audio off the BluRay or DVD disc, which is a fraction of true High Def digital audio.

How much did you pay for this X-fi or F-xi or whatever it is? somewhere around $100 considering all the other components you probably payed $25-$30 for the actual D/A converter. Now, if you want better quality you can buy a better D/A converter for the mac that will run laps around this X-fi thing your talking about. You want to mention people being pleased with the minimal!!! I'm sorry to burst your bubble but this X-fi thing is LESS than minimal.

The X-fi specs even list it as 24 bit/96k which is still 100K less then High Def Audio. Like I said at the beginning there are too many qualifiers to make what your saying true but if your basing your argument over this X-fi thing then your just wrong! there's no two ways about it.

NOW, talking about the MacBook Pro's audio output options ... your going to love this, trust me! Most MacBook Pro's actually do have a Digital Audio out, its a multi-Purpose output, the Digital output, which is BUILT IN on all the MacBook Pros, specs are as fallows: 24bit/44.1 - 192K

so lets take a quick review of this

X-FI: 24bit/92K
MacBook Pro: 24bit/192K

Now which item has the higher definition audio??? oh yea, that's right the MacBook Pro, and its standard non-the less. So, before you go talking about MacBook Pro's being a "Minimal" sound quality I would do some research before hand.

In addition, I can GUARANTEE you physically CANNOT tell the difference between 48K audio and 96K audio. Do I need to remind you that you can only hear up to 20K The reason the Sample Rate has to be as high is it does is because of the Nyquist Theorem, if you don't know what this is and didn't just use Wikipedia to find out, well either way, you still have no argument... Actually, most people are extremely lucky to hear above 17.5K! now comes the argument about harmonics, which, being an Audio Engineer, I know about... You, on the other hand, do not...

and before you start, I do need to remind you that the MacBook Pro's audio out is Digital and can be transmitted via Toslink... which means... 5.1 audio is possible!!!

I rest my case..........
 
Apple cares more about it's image and it's profit then it does competing with far superior machines.

It does care about its image yes.

Its image is providing good looking, innovative machines, intuitive OS and easy to use software for people who know that the cheapest option isn't always the best option.

In short - its image is built on making machines that people enjoy using.

Its not a fashion house - there is substance behind the style.

Innovation is as much part of apple's image as aesthetics.

Look at the effects the ipod, iphone and imacs have had on the computing market.
 
Bzzzt, WRONG. Blu-Ray looks great and is neccessary if you have a high resolution display. I have a 22" 1080p monitor that I use for gaming and movie watching in my den. Blu-Rays look waaaay better than upscaled DVDs. FAIL.

Your whole argument is based on the old "screen size versus viewing distance" argument regarding how many pixels your eye can pick up. I'm not 10 feet from my 22" display. I'm not 10 feet from my notebook.
Don't recall or see the reference to viewing distance vs. screen size. Look hard, but you won't find it, not even in High-Def.

I also never said blu-ray doesn't look good.

It even looks way better on sub-1080p monitors, such as the 1680x1050 displays that are popular (well, not on Macbooks, what's up with the lame 1440x900 resolution, but on every other 15"+ notebook that has 1680x1050). I have a 15" 1680x1050 Thinkpad with Blu-Ray; Blu-Rays look way better at 1680x1050 than upscaled DVDs. They look better on sub-1080p. They look better on small 1080p sets. They look better on large 1080p sets.

Of course, how would you know this -- you have a Mac with a low resolution display and incapability of playing Blu-Rays. Sounds like you don't have an HDTV either. Where do you get off saying something looks good or not when you don't have a display capable of it nor a player capable of reading the discs? Gotta love when someone who doesn't have something tells everybody else how lousy and unnecessary it is. Not like you tried Blu-Ray on your 1680x1050 Mac and decided it wasn't any good, is it?

I have an HDTV - Toshiba 46" REGZA. It works fine for my regular TV viewing. In my home theater, I have a Panasonic PT-AE2000 that projects onto a 119" screen. I have my PS3 connected and I watch blu-ray movies on it. I just think the idea of having a blu-ray player in 16" notebook is hilarious. Not exactly the "cinematic experience" when your screen is 16" and your sound is coming out of two crappy internal speakers.

Oh, and if you buy the Blu-Ray for your 70" TV, would you really want to have to buy the DVD too for playback on your notebook, or would you like to be able to play one disc everywhere?
I would be careful with purchasing your favorite movies all the time. How many times are you going to watch them? By the next time you watch that movie, there is a good chance you will have better technology.

I don't find it necessary to constantly watch movies. However, if I need to watch something, I can rent a movie (Netflix DVD, BLU-RAY, STREAM), I can pull one up on demand (Comcast or Apple TV), watch it on my iPhone in an airplane (ripped from DVD or rented from iTunes), or if I REALLY want to think outside the box, I'll go to the theater.

By the way, how do you like watching football on your 22" monitor? Are all of your HD channels looking pretty nice? You must feel like you are in the action. I would rather watch a movie on an old black and white 32" analog Zenith TV than a 22" Westinghouse HD Monitor. That's just how I feel about it. I don't expect everybody to agree with me.

How does having a 22" HD monitor make you a home theater expert again? I feel like I'm talking to a priest about the best way to conceive a child. Don't spit the history of cars and monitor resolution comparisons at me. Let's talk about experience for a bit. Compare the overall experience if you can.

And on the Porsche-VW thing? Be careful with analogies you don't fully understand. Ferdinand Porsche (and Adolf Hitler) designed the VW bug. The first Porsches (356, 911) were based on VW underpinnings. The Porsche 914 and 924 were designed for Audi (nee VW). The 914 was sold as both a Porsche and a VW. Even today Porsche is looking at a new 4 cylinder car based on VW underpinnings, shares the Cayenne with VW (Toureg) and Audi (Q6), and actually owns a majority stake in VW.

You don't know home theater. You don't know cars.

Congratulations on your search in Wikipedia. It doesn't make you a genius either. Your missing my point. Let's substitute VW with Ford Festiva so you can move on. I'll be "more careful" next time.

Wanna bet? Blu-Ray is already following in DVD's footsteps and is ahead of DVD at the same point in its lifespan. Blu-Ray is well on its way to being a household format.

No increased online bandwidth will ever be able to give me 50 mbps I get from Blu-Ray. ISPs are already capping the bandwidth we have now. You want to stream a live HD movie over the internet? Yeaaaaaaah.

Gone faster than Beta-Max? It's already 2 years old and sold 1 million discs of one movie in a single week.

Gone faster than Beta-Max? How's Apple TV doing? ;)

I guess I was being sarcastic when I made the Beta-Max reference. I also wasn't making a reference to Apple TV, but mine is working pretty well, thanks for asking. My wife and I just watched a movie on it this evening.

If you want to look beyond ATV, you could easily look at what cable providers have started offering with OnDemand. It's not 1080p yet, but give it some time.

It's pretty naive to think we've reached the pinnacle of bandwidth. In 1981, 300 baud modems were pretty sweet, but nobody thought that we arrived.

As good as a BLU-RAY movie looks, it is not the final frontier by any stretch of the imagination. So before you get your panties in a bunch because Apple products do not use/license a Sony product, just remember there is a lot more to come.
 
I disagree with the bluray statement especially with ISPs watching the Time Warner monthly cap on bandwidth that has recently been implimented.
ISPs will be more than happy to increase your speed. Then turn right around and charge you for going over your monthly allotment of bandwidth.

2 1080- downloads and you just might consume a families planned allowance.

I think Tw is charging a $1 a gig over your alloment. Suddenly that down loaded movie from itunes is a $30 investment. No thanks when a bluray can be had for under $20

Sounds like a pretty old BLU-RAY if you are buying it for under $20.

With things going as they are today, downloading a ton of HD content would not be a good idea. On the other hand, internet speeds will continue to increase and with that increase will bring higher caps, making devices like ATV or VUDU just as affordable as ever.

I guess I'm also thinking Comcast as a movie provider with it's OnDemand, not just through the internet. I was told they have already started to stream 1080i programming in some parts of the country.

Ultimately it depends on what the user feels he or she needs. I have purchased a few blu-ray movies to watch on my PS3, but honestly, I've never watched them more than once.
 
I like the idea of blu-ray as a storage medium.
Would only take four to back up my mp3 collection and it would handy for FCE scratch folders too.

For films I am sure its great, but can't see i'd use it than often on a laptop.
 
Now if you want those features, you need Cinepaint, which is the Gimp-film project's new name.

It looks a lot closer to Photoshop (better), although I don't see obvious support for RAW files from my dSLRs.

In any event, this would at best be just one solution for the three that I had originally off-the-cuff asked for: "...Adobe Photoshop, Adobe Acrobat (full) and Adobe Lightroom..."

So even if CinePaint is adequate to replace Photoshop, it doesn't even begin to answer the mail for portfolio management, which could be iPhoto, Aperture, or as I mentioned Lightroom.

Unfortunately, if Ubuntu were really ready for prime time, it should have been easy for the OR (Original Responder) to have said A=1, B=2, C=3 for the three software packages I asked for.

Please note that this doesn't mean that I wish ill upon the Linux community - its just that I don't yet consider its applied solutions to yet be mature enough for my individual needs, whereas these solutions do currently adequately exist on other OS platforms.


-hh
 
Well... GM is on the verge of bankruptcy and Microsoft is controlling 90% of the market.

"The Big 3" -- GM, Ford, Chrysler -- are all in trouble today (particularly GM), but it was still relatively recently (1970s) that they held over 80% of our domestic market. And since an automobile has a longer lifespan than a PC, their industry shifts will naturally occur much more slowly.

Obviously the "everything for everyone" factor wasn't the problem.

Sure, it wasn't the only thing to blame. However, it was the factor that did undoubtedly lead to incredible cannibalization, incest and resource-shifting that lead to the company working more against itself than its external competitors.

GM's downfall was that they went on a multi-decade shopping spree and collected brands from all over the world like trophies, then they diluted the value of all those brands by thinking you can just slap a Chevrolet badge on a Daewoo or a Saab badge on a Subaru without anyone noticing.

The Big Three had been doing this buying-up for decades and decades before their decline: there's dozens of "Dead Brands" in their coffers (Willys, Nash, Kaiser, Packard, Studebaker), as well as "Live Brands from Dead Companies" (Lincoln, Olds, etc) too.

The auto industry as a whole has a problem IMO with being inwardly focused and its not just GM or the Big Three who do it: so why don't we see the same brand management problems today with Fiat, Porsche, Nissan, Toyota, etc, etc, etc?

And to put this in parallel, its not that MS hasn't bought up tons of other companies and tried to absorb them, either.


... Since brand loyalty is kind of a cornerstone in the car business, and GM displayed zero loyalty toward their own brands, the customers did the same. Say what you will about Microsoft but I don't think you can accuse them of not staying true to their brand...

Really? Can you really articulate what Microsoft's "Brand" is?

As per these 'Hunter' commercials, it would seem that the MS brand message is:

"We are the invisible commodity that you take for granted"

Optionally with the ending: "...because we're CHEAP"

And I'll bet you that their 4th commercial won't change this message.

EDIT: and we don't see much consumer loyalty between PC brands: Dell, Lenovo, HP, etc ... essentially because of that 'take us for granted' piece from MS makes them all into mere hardware commodities, where brand loyalty is at its weakest.



Well, Microsoft isn't going bankrupt anytime soon...

People used to think the same of companies like GM, too.

Then in 1973, we had the first fuel crisis shock. That's going to be the event that IMO future historians will say was the 'beginning of the end' for GM. The thirty years since has been a combination of inertia (partly due to size), transience (allowed them to try to ignore market forces) and the more durable nature of the product (average car is 8 years old, which means that there's a 16 year old one still in service for every new one), which all serve to increase the reference timeframe.


-hh
 
I too would like to see linux thrive - but it seems to be in an awkward position for pro tools.

Things like lightroom and photoshop cost a lot to develop, and the few linux users i have met tend to be a little less commercially minded - and have the tech skills to get things for free....

When i have the time I am going to wipe my pc and have a crack at linux for a lark - but at the moment garageband is much too alluring. I have never come across such a professional yet straightforward piece of free creative software!
 
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