The bit you are (purposefully?) missing is that the 30% is not paid by the iphone owner / the end-customer, it’s paid by the developer as part of their costs, just like a non-digital business has costs like cd-duplication or commercial unit rent if the software was sold or delivered physcially.
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The bit you are (purposefully?) missing is that the 30% is not paid by the iphone owner / the end-customer, it’s paid by the developer as part of their costs, just like a non-digital business has costs like cd-duplication or commercial unit rent if the software was sold or delivered physcially.
They own the App Store and pay big money to maintain it.
You should pay attention, you are the one that barged into my conversation and what I was taking about.
The law is the only thing that matters. The days apple can do whatever they want are numbered anywhere in the world.
Google is OK, they are following the law, or you and others wouldn't constantly suggest: "buy an Android". So, Google has 0 reason to leave the EU, not to mention they haven't complained about the DMA anyway, there's no problem from their side.
Now Apple, taking in consideration their constant malicious compliance can surely leave, and it would be fascinating to see how this decision brings them down hard. There's no way to replace such a big market, their revenue, profits and nr. of employees will shrink indefinitely.
Wow, OK so you don't understand the law. Got it.
Anyway, what would regulating Spotify mean in your mind? Spotify is just one of the many available music streaming services.
Yes there is
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Imagine if this would have been a developer in a different position.
Not the point. Most users don't understand the technicalities of what apple is doing and how they are exerting control.
The fact that users "aren't forced" to buy your products doesn't mean you can be anti-competitive, not follow the law and do whatever you want.
They kind of are, because there are only 2 major mobile platforms. So, you need to be on both platforms to reach 100% of the market. It's not a matter of choice.
Not when there are only 2 major mobile platforms and smartphones have become pretty much essential in our daily lives. You are basically proving the need for this law, which is funny.
Splendid advice, for you.
EU can regulate it's market how it sees fit. This is the only thing that matters, any other discussions are irrelevant and you will see in time that they are irrelevant, apple will be smacked down until they understand it and life will move on.
Because an alternative store may offer app bundle discounts. Because an alternative store may offer a points program for future app discounts. Because an alternative app store may run app sales. Because an alternative app store may offer cash back programs. Because an alternative app store may offer app(s) that Apple doesn't allow in its App Store. Because an alternative app store may offer different payment processes, terms or options. Etc.
The EU could force Spotify to provide an option to export your playlists to other services, for one. Or require them to license their exclusives to their competitors? I’m told the DMA is about fostering competition and making it easy to switch service providers!
Or maybe when you try to sign up for Spotify the first time they could ask which Streaming Service you want to sign up for and provide you with a bunch of options of competitors’ products and ask you if you’re sure. That’s literally what they make Apple do with Safari.
But I'm sure there's an entirely above-board reason the EU decided not to regulate music streaming services. It's not like they regulate video services like YouTube as gatekeepers. Oh wait - they do.
Well, I’m sure Spotify doesn’t have enough users anyway. Wait, they have 56% of the music streaming market share in the EU? That seems larger than Apple’s 27% of the phone market. But I’m sure if you go by the numbers Apple has more users because the phone market is bigger than streaming. Apple has 101 million EU App Store users, that has to be more than Spotify’s 150 million EU users.
Well at least it’s not like musicians and record labels are forced to deal with Spotify if they want to reach the entire market. Wait, they are?
I’m sure the EU has a perfectly valid reason to not be declaring Spotify a gatekeeper. Let’s ask a European professor:
Well, I guess that is a valid reason. Kinda gives up the moral high ground though.
It doesn’t matter why they choose iPhone. It matters that they have a choice. iPhone or Android. If they don’t like what one offers they can choose the other. Nowhere does it say any given customer should be gaurenteed everything they want out of a product.
Like some things about iPhone but don’t like the walled garden approach? Well either you convince (not force) Apple to change or you live with it. Forcing Apple to do it your way is asinine and selfish because it takes away choice from the rest of us AND forces Apple to waste resources on projects they don’t even want to do.
No they kind of aren’t. Choosing to participate in any market is just that, a choice. Again no one is forced to develop for iPhone.
Imagine what? A rumor being possibly true? Still not authoritarian. No one is required to develop for or use Apple devices. It’s completely voluntary.
No I do understand it, you don’t though. It was specifically written to exclude one of the biggest gatekeepers in the EU, Spotify, who has a far bigger share of the market than Apple does with the iPhone.
Regulating Spotify would be the same as the way the EU is regulating iOS.
Forcing it to stop charging its customers just like Spotify wants Apple to not be able to charge them.
Forcing it to share its data with competitors.
Forcing it to tell users about alternatives when they try to sign up for Spotify.
Forcing Spotify to make it easier to switch to alternate services.
Oh and iPhone is just one of many smartphone devices, so the same logic already applies.
If Apple deserves to be regulated, Spotify does even more. The difference again is Spotify is a European company. It’s protectionism masquerading as user protection.
You can already do that, transfer your spotify playlists.
How can Spotify license something they don't own or they themselves licensed? Has anybody asked Apple to license their Apple TV shows for example? I would say NO.
This doesn't make any sense. Spotify is not a native preinstalled app.
Safari is the native browser. An essential pre-installed app(gatewayto the internet), comparing it with spotify is quite illogical. Also you will probably be asked to choose the default browser when you setup the phone. The same rule exist for the others, Android, Windows.
YES, it's not an essential core service. A very simple reason. There's more than enough competition between music streaming service and no barier to access this market.
EU also said for the time being its not necessary to regulate mail clients and cloud storage services and gave reasons as to why this is the case.
YouTube has over 10 billion installs my friend. It's one of the biggest apps in existence and a huge ad platform. Youtube does have significant market power, control over important digital ecosystems and can create bottlenecks in the flow of goods, services or information. It perfectly fits the DMA criteria, the only video sharing platform that does, as TikTok is considered a social media platform.
Its not just about the number of users, there are other criteria like revenue and ecosystem dominace and control. Spotify is available on almost any platform you can think of. For example Safari, the App Store meet al criterias(revenue, nr of users, core services, ecosystem dominace).
You still didn't give any viable reasons for Spotify to be regulated as per EU's criteria of course.
They aren't really, all of Spotify's competitors are present on both mobile platforms(thatsthe entiremarket). Spotify is just an app. I have Spotify and YouTube Music on my phone and I can install all other music streaming services if I want so there's no barier in reaching me.
An opinion piece not backed by any arguments. I guess that's the best you have.
Not a all, if you do a little research the technical reasons are obvious, there's no denying it.
It doesn't make sense for a company to limit their market reach, potential, revenue etc. This is why Apple will never leave the EU or any market for petty reasons.
Oh I'm quite sure apple tried to strong-arm WeChat. It's obvious something happened between the two.
Well, why didn't apple just terminate WeChat support then? Let's hear it?
You obviously don't, Mr. "bigger share of the market".
And that's just your opinion, with no technical argument to back it up.
This is just not true. The fact that you talk like iOS and Spotify are on equally footing is absurd.
Spotify is an app, not an etire platform, ecosystem, tied to certain hardware etc.
This doesn't make sense.
Again, doesn't make sense. No such thing was asked anyway.
? Spotify is an app, you have to go download and install it yourself. It's not a core preinstalled system app, it's just one of the many available music streaming services. Also its not a core ecosystem app and it's universally compatible with different platforms.
Again, Spotify is just an app. They don't stop anybody from switching to any alternative.
The iphone is the other half of the 2 dominant mobile platforms. We can just talk about iOS, it's the same. Or you want to say that iphones can run Android?
Ok, so you were unable to give any technical reasons and argumente as per EU's criteria. Got it.
FYI the only criteria meet by Spotify as per DMA is the nr. of monthly users.
The dma is not a petty reason. But the dma combined with further anti-American tech regulations could cause a revaluation.
It does matter. Your argument was that people who don't like the "walled garden" should buy an Android. It's not that simple especially if reasons they purchased an iPhone include things like integration with other Apple devices, Apple exclusive apps or features, etc.
iPhone users do NOT have a choice when it comes to app stores (except maybe in the EU at this point) and many have an issue with that. Many also have an issue that there is NO competition in the important iOS app access market (except maybe in the EU at this point). The DMA is trying to open the door for competition and choice.
If I could I would bet a huge sum of money that it won't. Too bad I can't.
Apple would be in a huge net loss situation if they would do something like that.
While I agree Apple isn't going to pull out of the EU, it's not a huge net loss. The EU accounts for somewhere around 7-10% of Apple's global revenue. If they're regularly getting fined 10-20% of global revenue you can see why some argue that it makes sense to pull out.
Again, they're not going to pull out of the EU, but the EU definitely thinks it is more indispensable than it actually is.
I would not be surprised if Meta pulls Facebook out of the EU. Not saying it will definitely happen, but what the EU is saying about Facebook's business model is CRAZY (and I am NOT a fan of Facebook AT ALL).
Not natively, unless I am mistaken.
While I know they've cut back on it, they do have some exclusive podcasts, do they not?
I agree it doesn't make sense, but I don't think it makes any sense on iOS either, so my opinions are consistent.
Why is it illogical?
It's not an "essential core service" only because it appears the DMA intentionally wrote the legislation to exclude them.
Are you arguing that Spotify isn't one of the biggest apps in existence? That it doesn't have a huge ad platform? That Spotify doesn't have significant market power? It has 56% of the music streaming market - which means musicians are forced to deal with them.
Revenue, where the EU made up numbers that conveniently avoided hitting Spotify (or any other European company). Dominance, where EU case law says that markets participants with less than 40% market share are generally considered to not be dominant. But somehow iOS has 27% and is a gatekeeper and Spotify has 56% and is not.
The fact that musicians and record labels are forced to deal with Spotify in order to successfully serve the market. You literally claimed that developers are forced to deal with iOS if they want to reach 100% of their market. How is Spotify, again with 56% of the EU streaming market, somehow less important for musicians than iOS is for developers?
Why were the revenue numbers set where they were?
I have done a lot of research, I don't think the technical reasons are obvious, so I do deny it. There is literally no good reason to not name Spotify a gatekeeper. From the DMA:
Spotify has a significant impact on the internal market, it provides an important gateway for business users (musicians and record labels) to reach end users and enjoys an entrenched and durable position in its market. The only reason it wasn't named a gatekeeper was protectionism.
DMA was designed to attack US big businesses, wrapped with a shroud of consumer protectionism to make citizens think its in their best interests, when it's actually making its citizens' privacy, security, user experience, and quality of products worse.
But nerds can install porn apps and play pirated games on iOS now, so I guess it was worth it!
Various comments on forums like this plus the fact that alternative iOS app stores like AltStore PAL, AppValley, Mobivention Marketplace, Setapp Mobile, etc. (are starting to) exist/do business, at least for the EU market at this point.
EU accounts for like 15-20% of Apple's revenue actually. This is more accurate estimation taking in consideration Apple doesn't want to clary it.
But if apple would pull out of the EU because they don't want to follow the law, shares wouldn't go down by way way more than 10%, and they would stay down. Negative news would make waves for months. It would be an absolutely huge disaster.
EU is as indispensable as it thinks it is. Like I've said there's zero chance for apple to make up the lost EU revenue. Their potential for growth in the rest of the world is small.
0 chance of that happening, like Z e r o.
According to MR (8/1/24) the App Store in the EU is responsible for 7% of the total EU revenue.