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Microsoft Shuffles Executives as Nokia Debuts New Windows Phone with 41MP Camera
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cameraphone
If you look closely, they took the normal sized icons on the launcher and made them big and square and two-toned. Then they made all fullscreen applications and made the banner text a little bigger, and finally changed the box button to a "windows key".
Obviously a bit more than that went into it, but in a nutshell...
Relax eli, nothing is bleeding, nobody even knows what you're muttering about anyway...
None of the above, my eyes have been opened to see through that. I've gotta wonder myself weather duffman9000 is blind, willfully ignorant, or trolling.
Anyway, back to the discussion, what I was going to say was that while 40 megapixel may seem overkill, imagine that the camera shoots a 40m picture, and then just scales it down right away to 2mp (which is still 1920 by 1080 resolution, if my calculator's right), that'll still be a much better looking 2mp picture than an actual 2mp camera would've delivered. I mean, if you think about it, nowdays in shops, they have 10+mp cameras, but we're just scaling the pictures down a ton anyway to display them on our 1-2mp monitors - so, what if our cameras actually took nice looking 2mp pictures in the first place? I think that's where they're going with this whole 40 megapixel camera thing, and it could be useful in real cameras too.
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If you look closely, they took the normal sized icons on the launcher and made them big and square and two-toned. Then they made all fullscreen applications and made the banner text a little bigger, and finally changed the box button to a "windows key".
Obviously a bit more than that went into it, but in a nutshell...
Relax eli, nothing is bleeding, nobody even knows what you're muttering about anyway...
You're either blind, willfully ignorant, or trolling.
Which one is it?
None of the above, my eyes have been opened to see through that. I've gotta wonder myself weather duffman9000 is blind, willfully ignorant, or trolling.
Anyway, back to the discussion, what I was going to say was that while 40 megapixel may seem overkill, imagine that the camera shoots a 40m picture, and then just scales it down right away to 2mp (which is still 1920 by 1080 resolution, if my calculator's right), that'll still be a much better looking 2mp picture than an actual 2mp camera would've delivered. I mean, if you think about it, nowdays in shops, they have 10+mp cameras, but we're just scaling the pictures down a ton anyway to display them on our 1-2mp monitors - so, what if our cameras actually took nice looking 2mp pictures in the first place? I think that's where they're going with this whole 40 megapixel camera thing, and it could be useful in real cameras too.
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So they took what were bog standard icons in a bog standard grid layout, changed it a bit, and somehow shamelessly aped what's already been a fairly standardized layout since the days of Palm PDAs?
Yeah, there are some similarities that iOS did come up with first, but there aren't nearly enough to say WP is a complete ripoff of iOS. Beyond some superficial bits and pieces (that you're apparently basing your entire argument on), they're markedly different in both usage and presentation.
Hell, Android has much more in common with iOS than WP does, and I wouldn't even call it a shameless ripoff. WP is just that much more removed.
Well, obviously, it's all copied.
WP has fast animation. Apple is removing animation delays in iOS 7. OMG is Apple now copying MS?
Since the above is the only thing you can muster, happy trolling.
How is that an iOS ripoff?
Win Phone = flat as flat can be, datacentric approach, uses resizable boxes because they dynamically relay data (those boxes are functionally widgets), design language = metro
iOS = gradients and textures all over the place, appcentric approach, static UI, design language = unicorn poop
r
I have to disagree - the iPhone "experience" was a unique one; I still hold to the fact that the look was copied by MS and even the "no ringtones, no applications unless you download them from our marketplace" policy was kept. Both are basically noncustomizable (to a degree) and built with the same idea in mind. In the end, it's like trying to argue copyright, there's no point.
Says the person who could only muster:
Lighten up a bit, it's only a forum thread.
So it's different because the icons are bigger and more boring?
Anyway, on to my other on topic thought,
My thinking was that 40something megapixel might seem like overkill, but when you think about it, so is 15 or 10. We all view them on a no larger than 2 Megapixel monitor, which means that all we're doing is scaling them down anyway. What that phone will probably do (and what high megapixel cameras of today should do) is scale the image down to about 3MP to conserve space and to leave behind a very clean, very crisp 3MP image. Am I on the right tracks here?
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I have to disagree - the iPhone "experience" was a unique one; I still hold to the fact that the look was copied by MS and even the "no ringtones, no applications unless you download them from our marketplace" policy was kept. Both are basically noncustomizable (to a degree) and built with the same idea in mind. In the end, it's like trying to argue copyright, there's no point.
Since the above is the only thing you can muster, happy trolling.
Says the person who could only muster:
You're either blind, willfully ignorant, or trolling.
Which one is it?
Lighten up a bit, it's only a forum thread.
So it's different because the icons are bigger and more boring?
Anyway, on to my other on topic thought,
My thinking was that 40something megapixel might seem like overkill, but when you think about it, so is 15 or 10. We all view them on a no larger than 2 Megapixel monitor, which means that all we're doing is scaling them down anyway. What that phone will probably do (and what high megapixel cameras of today should do) is scale the image down to about 3MP to conserve space and to leave behind a very clean, very crisp 3MP image. Am I on the right tracks here?
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I have to disagree - the iPhone "experience" was a unique one; I still hold to the fact that the look was copied by MS and even the "no ringtones, no applications unless you download them from our marketplace" policy was kept. Both are basically noncustomizable (to a degree) and built with the same idea in mind. In the end, it's like trying to argue copyright, there's no point.
Actually, the first app store was on a Palm device, I believe. Apple polished and popularized the concept, but the idea of having a way to download apps for a mobile device had been done before.
The look? This is where you're most wrong. WP and iOS have absolutely nothing in common with each other in either styling or layout. WP doesn't even follow a proper grid of icons, because you can expand some tiles into widgets, or collapse them down to an icon size if you so want. On top of that, Metro is based around bold typography and drawing the eye using colors and blocking. iOS' design language is rooted more in classic UI paradigms (I use the fancy words). Beyond the fact that they're both based around touchscreens and default to fullscreen apps, the two have nothing in common.
So it's different because the icons are bigger and more boring?
It's different because icons are no longer static pictures, they're resizable blocks that dynamically relay info. The equivalent of a widget on Android except more constrained
The two functional hallmarks of Windows Phone are that it's data-centric (livetiles over icons) and people-centric (contacts and social networks are all interconnected). Design-wise it's flat and simple but personalizable. iOS is app-centric - you just get a static grid of apps. Design-wise I haven't followed the beta changes, but I thought what they presented at WWDC was garbage
You're on the right track.
It's for oversampling and lossless digital zoom
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But could you not also just put a bunch of .PRCs and ringtones on your Palm in its stock configuration?
The IOS icons can change too to reflect notifications, unread emails, sms messages, and more. They may be a different shape and less re-sizable, but not that different. Metro was born by taking a proper GUI, accidentally deleting a bunch of elements, and then saying, "bro, that looks cool, it's art!". That is to say, anyone could've designed it given how simple and boring and useless it is - you can tell it was just a rushed in knockoff, but I digress, back to the topic at hand,
What if all cameras (and high megapixel cellphones) would just automatically scale their high megapixel images down to 3 megapixels? That would still be bigger than almost all monitors available today and in the near future. The focus could be on a high quality, low megapixel image instead of a low quality, high megapixel image that only looks good when resized down to 1.5MP on your monitor (have you ever zoomed a 5MP picture up to 100%?).
Never thought about that one, but that could be another good use for these high megapixel count cameras and cellphones.
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You're comparing the icon badges to the expandable tiles in WP? That's...really reaching, man. And less resizable? They're not resizeable at all!
Trust me, as someone who's used Metro a ton more than you have, it's not simply MS deleting a bunch of elements to make a quick arty looking knock-off. A lot of thought, care, and functionality has gone into it. You don't have to like the end result because, hey, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but it's not a cheap rush job made in response to the iPhone. Far from it. The design style has been around since 2006.
What Renzatic said x 1000
The icons don't change. Apple just sticks a little number in the corner to tell you to click on it. Information is always in the app.
As opposed to WP where information goes directly to the UI. It's a different philosophy on what a UI should be, and personally I think MS's approach (and Android's widget approach) is a better use of space. The UI becomes a dynamic functional tool where on iOS it's just an aesthetic grid that sits there.
This isn't the year 2000 where battery and processor limitations dictate a GUI must be static. It's 2013, Apple brags about their latest SoC every year. Yet their UI is a Palm Pilot throwback. Reskinned to look like My Little Pony
Oversampling/pixel-binning is Nokia's proprietary approach. And there's a lot that goes into IQ that's independent of oversampling. Though in the case of digital zoom, Nokia's is the only solution that doesn't produce garbage
camera
Not really, icons are icons. A little picture with text that may or may not have some form of dynamic content in and around it. Don't forget that in both, they are mandatory and not removable.
I have to disagree because (visually anyway), it looks like an unfinished kindergarten art project. I guess if you're Steve Balmer looking at this attempt at art, he feels like "how can you say no to that?".
I guess the marketshare and sales numbers will tell us who the real winner is, but I stand by my position even though some of you appear to be unchangeably convinced by what I've explained.
That's true. I wonder if other camera companies will start doing the same as megapixels start increasing faster than flash card sizes. I'd rather have a smaller and better looking 2-3MP image than some 10-15+MP picture that takes up half my storage space, you know?
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Not really, icons are icons. A little picture with text that may or may not have some form of dynamic content in and around it. Don't forget that in both, they are mandatory and not removable.
I have to disagree because (visually anyway), it looks like an unfinished kindergarten art project. I guess if you're Steve Balmer looking at this attempt at art, he feels like "how can you say no to that?".
I guess the marketshare and sales numbers will tell us who the real winner is, but I stand by my position even though some of you appear to be unchangeably convinced by what I've explained.
That's true. I wonder if other camera companies will start doing the same as megapixels start increasing faster than flash card sizes. I'd rather have a smaller and better looking 2-3MP image than some 10-15+MP picture that takes up half my storage space, you know?
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Not sure why people think that it only gives you 5mp output. When you take a picture, the 41mp camera takes 2 shots, one at a full resolution (38mp, so yeah, it's not quite 41mp but it does give you an output of something like 7,712 x 4,352) and a 5mp shot for quick sharing, which uses the oversampling.
Ugh, huh. And what exactly have you explained besides stating WP is a copy of iOS without providing proof?
I've made myself use metro on a regular basis for 6 months now (Win8) and if this is the result of 7 years of development then Microsoft need to fire the entire UI team and give up OS development and go back to apps.
Maybe their goals are not aligned with what I actually want to do with my machine, but I'm sure I'm not alone.
Maybe it's only been rushed onto computers, but it's certainly not polished to the extent i would expect of 7 years worth of development.
It could be worse. Try using Visual Studio 2012 on a daily basis. To say I don't like it is an understatement.
Sorry, metro is a rush job. While metro is great for lite apps, it's very inefficient for heavy apps. Microsoft purchased this design btw for the Zune.
On windows phone while in certain apps you can tell just how inefficient metro really is. Swiping multiple times just to reach information is very cumbersome. Apps become too much text, and makes me hate my Lumia. The solid colors, especially menu buttons are horrendous to me.
On the desktop its even worse.
The biggest problem I've always had with MS is that they're really damn inconsistent. Win8 isn't the best place to judge Metro because it's really not the best implementation of it. This is doubly true if you're not using a touchscreen device. And even there, the Metro apps there aren't nearly as good as the equivalent Metro web apps, or the ones on the phone. You'd think that if they could do it well in one place, they could do it well in all of them, but they don't. Dunno why.
The one best place to judge Metro at the moment is on a Windows Phone. It's sleek, easy to use, and well organized. If you want to access all your data as quickly as possible, it's the best phone platform out there. Next would be the web apps, which somehow manage to work well with both touchscreen devices and the good ole mouse and keyboard. In my opinion, this is how MS should be developing Windows on the desktop. Last would be WinRT/Win8. Everything there feels like it was developed by an entirely different team who doesn't get Metro as well as the phone and web developers. They're nowhere near as functional, feel sparse and minimal, and...yeah...they just don't work as well. They feel like the beta versions of MS' other, better Metro apps.
See, I like Metro...when it's done well. If MS could pull it off so it's done well across all their products, I'd deeply consider going all Windows. But they haven't. Not yet, anyway.
Who'd they purchase the design from? This is the first I've heard about it.
If there's one thing iOS people shouldn't be complaining about on other platforms, it's having to swipe and drill down multiple levels to access everything.
The same thing I said above about MS could be applied almost as equally to Apple. I mean they have one of the smoothest UIs around in OSX. Everything is easily accessed, and only ever a couple of clicks away at most. Comparatively, iOS is clunky, slow to navigate, and overly convoluted. It works great for single apps, but if you try to use it for more than that, it starts showing off its weaknesses pretty quickly.
iOS7 has made some pretty big steps to improve this, but it still hasn't gone far enough. It's still very single app centric.
Sorry I should've added I only use jailbroken iOS devices. Zephyr makes multitasking a breeze. Nc settings and a host of other tweaks make iOS amazing. I even have windows phone keyboard sounds for my key sounds, lol.
My Lumia is ok, I got very bored with it after a week. Too many limitations.
Yeah, Zune was a Gigabit at first before it came to the US. The whole typography interface is best suited for its original intended purpose, media player.
I'd pay that. Most of the issues I've had with win8 have been consistency related between metro->classic and the fact that there's no real windows 8 metro apps to get anything I want done.
Haven't yet seen a Windows phone, but I'm going to give one a go sooner or later as they will hopefully be administerable via exchange/group policy/etc.
