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Microsoft Supports Epic Games, Says Apple Blocking Access to Unreal Engine Would Harm Game Creators
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They better jump start few AWS databases.
@MacRumors Despite the outcome, this fight deserves somekind of a sticky timeline view with the latest happenings on the top bar of your site. It will probably take a year or so, till a final decision is made...
Btw. Unity also indirectly moaned a bit...
Page: 19 of https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1810806/000119312520227862/d908875ds1.htm
If we or our customers were to violate, or an operating system platform provider or application store believes that we or our customers have violated, its terms of service or policies, that operating system platform provider or application store could limit or discontinue our or our customers’ access to its platform or store.
In some cases these requirements may not be clear and our interpretation of the requirements may not align with the interpretation of the operating system platform provider or application store, which could lead to inconsistent enforcement of these terms of service or policies against us or our customers, and could also result in the operating system platform provider or application store limiting or discontinuing access to its platform or store.
Page: 19 of https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1810806/000119312520227862/d908875ds1.htm
If we or our customers were to violate, or an operating system platform provider or application store believes that we or our customers have violated, its terms of service or policies, that operating system platform provider or application store could limit or discontinue our or our customers’ access to its platform or store.
In some cases these requirements may not be clear and our interpretation of the requirements may not align with the interpretation of the operating system platform provider or application store, which could lead to inconsistent enforcement of these terms of service or policies against us or our customers, and could also result in the operating system platform provider or application store limiting or discontinuing access to its platform or store.
You have a weird boner for epic man. It’s like you think they’re some sort of crusader out to rescue innocent devs out of the iron grip of the big bad.
It’s funny, as that’s obviously how they have angled it. I suppose you can’t be faulted for reading and believing things without understanding it’s a manipulation. It’s how the world seems to be going recently anyway, in all sorts of ways, so I suppose I don’t blame people for forgetting how to be objective.
Watching people lose their sh*t over it having fallen hook line and sinker for some sort of epic induced developer utopia -(these 4 words can be exchanged for almost any current event of the past few years)- is in equal parts hilarious and petrifying.
Ah so what you're saying is people can't be wrong, change their minds/point of view, nor can the environment, market or economics change in 8 years. Tell me more.
And if you bought that disc from say BestBuy or whatever other type store (Target, Walmart, etc.) They up charge too. So, even that $59.99 or $69.98 or whatever game you buy. Has a markup fee to it. That goes to the store.
2012
Android marketshare: 75%
iOS: 15%
2020
Android marketshare: 85.4%
iOS: 15%
WOW the market totally changed!
Of course the economics changed. Epic went from a $825 million valuation in 2012 to a $17 billion valuation today and decided that it doesn't want to pay the 30% anymore.
No, I didn't say people can't change their minds. During those 8 years, Apple changed their minds and introduced a new 15% cut for subscriptions lasting longer than 1 year. They also eased the terms for all developers. See? Totally possible that people can change their minds.
And no, people can totally be wrong. Just look at what Epic is doing today.
Shall I continue? Or are you done?
Hearing going on right now... and apple...
"Doren: Let me take it back to first principles. All Epic needs to do is to put a compliant version of Fortnite back on the App Store. Says that's all they need to do so that consumers can, and I quote quite literally, "ride their sharks and buy their dances on Fortnite.""
"Doren: Let me take it back to first principles. All Epic needs to do is to put a compliant version of Fortnite back on the App Store. Says that's all they need to do so that consumers can, and I quote quite literally, "ride their sharks and buy their dances on Fortnite.""
Looks like Apple didn’t impress the judge much.
But apparently they have data that people switch all the time. I’d be curious to see this. We hear about Android users switching to Apple but the company never talks about the reverse. In this case I’m not sure showing data on people switching FROM Android would help Apple’s case.
But apparently they have data that people switch all the time. I’d be curious to see this. We hear about Android users switching to Apple but the company never talks about the reverse. In this case I’m not sure showing data on people switching FROM Android would help Apple’s case.
Yeah but surely they can kill for night and not every other game that is using unreal.
They never threatened to kill every game that is using unreal. They threatened to prevent Epic from using apple sdks to develop *updates* to unreal.
Fine. Don't remove it because of Epics behavior. Remove it for unspecified reasons. Apple shouldn't have to give a reason why it removes an App from its shelves.
You mean force delete off of everyone's phone? I think they only reserve that for malicious apps. Otherwise Epic might make another big deal saying "APPLE CAN FORCE INSTALL AND UNINSTALL ANY APP ON YOUR PHONE".
The point is that for a game that generates billions of dollars, there are only two stores and those two stores both take exactly the same 30% and there are no alternatives. If I produce a physical game, I can sell in any number of stores, online, direct etc.. and if Best Buy decided to take an unreasonably huge %, you wouldn’t stock it there. Developers have no choice right now but to use the App Store and Play Store.
I agree that if they choose to put it on the App Store they should agree to the T&Cs, but I really do think they should allow 3rd party app stores. They charge £1000 for the hardware, the App Store should be split into an independent legal entity IMO and should allow me to install what I want, from where I want... I don’t mind the risk, and for those that do they can continue to buy from the App Store.
I know what was in the letter—a letter, please realize, that Epic’s attorneys wrote knowing it would be evidence in the lawsuit they had already drafted.
Like I said, there’s no way Apple was ever going to accept any/every random dev opening their own store for IAP and paying Apple 0%. (Would Epic let anyone open a store on their platform and let them pay 0%?)
This was Epic saying, “we don’t like paying 30%, it’s a shame you’ve forced us to drop it to 0%”. It’s a ham-handed, amateurish attempt at utilizing imagined (but nonexistent) leverage to force a better deal from Apple. Unfortunately for Epic, they didn’t realize just how small a fish they are in the App Store.
Epic was always just in this for themselves, that’s the whole point of a side letter. A special deal. Just for Epic. The throwaway comment about other devs was just window dressing.
If Apple would have given them the 15% deal, Epic would be laughing all the way to the bank, with the top execs patting themselves on the back and banking 8-digit bonuses.
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Well no 💩 a vast legal budget doesn’t guarantee they are impervious to lawsuit. I never said that.
The verdict is in by the judge overseeing the case. Apple doesn’t have to acquiesce to Epic’s bone-headed move to violate the TOS. Apple’s TOS aren’t deemed illegal at this time. Furthermore, it’d be a bold move for a judge to rule on anti-trust when the FCC or EU haven’t ruled on it. It’s asinine so many people are jumping to conclusions.
What's a matter Chikatita...no likey?
...some people like being dimed for virtual nothings, there choice, I guess.
...want Epic to have a free lunch? How little should they pay? 1%. 5%? 10%?
Maybe Epic can build up their own 1 billion hardware base and set up their own shop...and their own rules for mewling cats to complain about?
If you feel you're being treated badly. (Like standing in something unpleasant...). You don't punish it by jumping up and down in it.
You walk away.
Azrael.
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Seriously. Epic is in the wrong here causing hurt to small developers because they don’t agree with Apple TOS.
I can understand the frustration of a small game dev, but put that on Epic for not thinking about them. You clearly violated a TOS. Epic went about it wrong. Will never support their games again. They are no different in attitude than the looters/rioters destroying businesses in the cities.
You really do not get that we all lose if Apple is forced to allow alternative stores. If you do not like the rules then go somewhere else.
No one has any right to tell a company how to run their business. We (everyone outside of Apple) have no idea how much it costs to operate the AppStore. Part of the expense of operating the store goes towards subsidizing the development tools they all but give away for $99, the operation of the store, and covering all of the apps that cost nothing and therefore yield no income.
The App Store is not a monopoly as there is an alternative with Android phones.
The solution for Epic and other companies is to mark up their products accordingly. If Epic wins then consumers lose. One possible side effect could be the elimination of free apps and the implementation of a minimum app cost. Would someone sue to force Apple to allow free apps?
I don't get it? Why do we all lose? Surely, if you or I want to continue to download trusted apps from the App Store we can. If someone wants to chance it with 3rd party downloads from a 3rd party store, they also can.
I can't believe for a second you only download apps from the Mac Store... do you? I personally download 3rd party apps I know I can trust all the time onto my MacBook and guess what? I've never had an issue and the world still turns. Why is the phone any different. If the OS and hardware is robust, what's the issues?