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Anandtech chart is flawed....

Why the comparison with the iPad only ? Surely a fairer comparison would be between the surface pro and the MacBook Air 11" stock.

i bet they weigh the same if you add the keyboard cover.
 
Frankly, it's the ergonomy of tablets I dislike. I have yet to even find a comfortable positions in which to use them for more than 2 consecutive minutes.

And laptops are as good for all the tasks you list.

Try an iPad with a smartcover or one of the covers that holds it slightly elevated when using it on a flat surface. I personally find it quite comfortable. I think they are quite interactive in a good way. Obviously there are things I would rather do on a laptop or desktop. If I'm going to sit somewhere comfortable for any length of time, I prefer a desktop with a large monitor.
 
Frankly, it's the ergonomy of tablets I dislike. I have yet to even find a comfortable positions in which to use them for more than 2 consecutive minutes.

And laptops are as good for all the tasks you list.

Thats why I think stuff like the 'Lenovo Yoga' will be a sweet spot for many. Something that can be both easily without needing attachments. Needs to shrink a shade I am sure, but a tablet basically has to evolve in some ways into a laptop. Could write that more intelligently, but I think the gist is there.

They don't realize that they are hurting Apple's bottom line by purchasing the entry level product. For some reason they are putting their needs ahead of Apple's.

I know they are some selfish pricks. I will head over to the Apple store for that awesome non crowded smooth experience and buy 10 rMBP's for the heck of it. That should help.
 
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Frankly, it's the ergonomy of tablets I dislike. I have yet to even find a comfortable positions in which to use them for more than 2 consecutive minutes.

And laptops are as good for all the tasks you list.

Exactly. While I do think touchscreens will become popular on notebooks in fairly short order (primarily because Windows 8 practically requires them), I think it will be mostly as secondary input. Traditional form factor notebooks (in "Ultrabook" form) should remain the dominant form. The weight balance is better.

I see the smaller tablet market (iPad Mini, Nexus 7) as the dominant tablet form, since they are as light as e-readers with more functionality (at about the same price as the e-readers of 3 years ago). Ergonomics of the small tablets are fine for simple tasks, but they will never replace notebooks (nor are the "mini" tablets intended to).
 
Isn't that always the case for Windows? The third release (Windows 8 Service Pack 2?) will resolve most of the issues.

I didn't even mind Vista terribly by the time Service Pack 1 came out, by SP2 it was finally a step up from XP.

B

For the most part, yeah. Though the changes I think need to be made (better integration with Metro, interface tweaks, ect.) are more likely to come with Windows 9 than they are another service pack.

Service packs usually address performance issues or underlying bugs. On that front, Win8 is pretty solid.
 
I'm not sure what part of the world you're in, friend, but my part of the world is decidedly not Windows-based!

Go into any Starbucks in London or New York, where working people are socializing whilst getting real work done. Mac laptops proliferate like legal addictive stimulants.

By the way, please change your avatar. I just got spit in my eye! :)

I bet all of the banks in London are using Windows. Probably 90+% of the businesses are using Windows. Worldwide Mac's are less than 10% of the market. The world does run on Windows.
 
Let me get this straight...

Microsoft thinks we all want this hybrid tablet/laptop. They make it standard in the power department, charge extra for the keyboard, give it an unproven OS, and they want to charge more than a full-blown Apple MacBook Air?

What a ********* joke.
 
Let me admit my bias up front: I don't have any Microsoft software on any machine I own. I don't like Microsoft very much.

But I predict they'll sell almost as many Surface Pros as they did Zunes. The exact same people will buy them ... well, those who aren't dead or haven't switched to an OS that actually allows them to get something done.

In two or three years, the various Surface iterations will be another bad memory for Microsoft lovers ... like the Zune! I cannot wait to see the lack of lines at my local Microsoft mall kiosk on 9 February.

Sadly, this will probably be true.

I like what MS is doing with Windows 8 and the Window Phones and would like to see them become more competitive, but they just can't seem to get the marketing/pricing correct.
 
Let me get this straight...

Microsoft thinks we all want this hybrid tablet/laptop. They make it standard in the power department, charge extra for the keyboard, give it an unproven OS, and they want to charge more than a full-blown Apple MacBook Air?

What a ********* joke.

I'm sure you said the same thing when the MBA was first released too. :rolleyes:
 
Google Nexus 10
- 2560x1600 pixels
- $399

Macbook Pro Retina 13
- 2560x1600 pixels
- $1699


So is the rMBP13 an even greater ripoff than the surface pro who beats the MBA11 spec for spec at same price.
 
Thats why I think stuff like the 'Lenovo Yoga' will be a sweet spot for many. Something that can be both easily without needing attachments. Needs to shrink a shade I am sure, but a tablet basically has to evolve in some ways into a laptop. Could write that more intelligently, but I think the gist is there.



I know they are some selfish pricks. I will head over to the Apple store for that awesome non crowded smooth experience and buy 10 rMBP's for the heck of it. That should help.

Have you read about the Dell XPS Convertible? That looks interesting too.

----------

Google Nexus 10
- 2560x1600 pixels
- $399

Macbook Pro Retina 13
- 2560x1600 pixels
- $1699


So is the rMBP13 an even greater ripoff than the surface pro who beats the MBA11 spec for spec at same price.

But, but..........:D
 
Everything here is good but the price. At $499 the ipad or surface rt is an addition to something else. At $899, that is very well your only computer.

Needed to be $599 or $699.
 
With what they ended up with in terms of price, size, weight, battery life, keyboard thingy, etc, I don't see why anyone who is considering this wouldn't just get a laptop instead. If the touch is such a big deal, just start putting touchscreens on laptops instead of trying to take a tablet and tweak it in ways that lose all the advantages of that form factor.
 
You honestly think that Apple is taking a hit on profits with their iPad pricing?

Honestly no, I don't think Apple takes a huge hit on profits with their iPad pricing. However, I do believe that their profit margin for something like an iPad or iPhone is thinner than a product like the MacBook Air. Microsoft is not in that situation. Consumers still see the Surface as a beta type device, similar to who the iPad was first perceived, and the app environment does not yet allow Microsoft to price it like Amazon prices the Kindle. Microsoft does not yet have the app environment to be competitive, and they also have to worry about undercutting their OEMs.
 
Google Nexus 10
- 2560x1600 pixels
- $399

Macbook Pro Retina 13
- 2560x1600 pixels
- $1699


So is the rMBP13 an even greater ripoff than the surface pro who beats the MBA11 spec for spec at same price.

You're comparing a single spec... There are tons of difference between a Nexus 10 and a MBA... Not so much a Surface Pro and a MacBook Air.
 
The question is: what does it do better?

Is it a better tablet? No.

Is it a better laptop? No.

Laptops are better at being portable, so they are better than Desktops in this fashion. Is the sales pitch for Surface is that you don't have to carry an iPad mini along with your MacBook Air? Is carrying less things the sales pitch? Is that worth it for the compromise?

Well, why not?

What would your perfect laptop be?

Mine would be: as thin and light as an iPad, with the battery life of an iPad (10+ hours). With a nice backlit keyboard. Retina display. Runs full OS X apps (or full Windows apps, if you'd rather have that). Powerful enough CPU/GPU that it doesn't feel slow. Full SSD for storage, and USB and external memory card support. HDMI and/or VGA output.

While we're at it, it's not a stretch to add a touch screen to the mix because, hey, sometimes that's fun.

And hey presto! We've got a hybrid laptop/tablet!

We're not quite there yet -- but we're getting close. Again I mention the Lenovo Yoga 11S and Thinkpad Helix as two examples of great-looking ultraportables that can do double-duty as tablets. In both cases I would say "yes" to "is it a better laptop" and "not really" to "is it a better tablet". But that might well be good enough for all kinds of people.

I'd buy one.
 
Google Nexus 10
- 2560x1600 pixels
- $399

Macbook Pro Retina 13
- 2560x1600 pixels
- $1699


So is the rMBP13 an even greater ripoff than the surface pro who beats the MBA11 spec for spec at same price.

Comparing a Nexus 10 or a Surface Pro to a MBP is like comparing a 747 to a Vespa. Yeah.....they'll both get you somewhere, but in very different ways.
 
Have you read about the Dell XPS Convertible? That looks interesting too.

Little bulky I think which I REALLY hate saying cause I never get the stupid few mm deal with Apple. The Macbook Pro 08' thickness is fine for a laptop IMO.

Tablet wise with laptop functionality for myself needs to be very slim cause you might want to kick back on the couch and browse a bit and sleek is good there. Also cheap, $399-$699 or so since it is mainly for consuming content, writing emails and basic lighter work.

Can't see tablets lifting really heavy stuff for awhile still. But yeah the Dell isn't bad at all. I would nab something like that or the yoga on the cheap if it drops a lot.
 
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I was just going to post the same.

64GB is lame and 128GBs with Apples purchasing power should be near to being affordable., with more and more players wanting these.

Actually we probably will see 128 GB units with the next release, the reason we haven't so far is because of a change Apple made to the Ipod Touch and Ipad a couple of revisions ago. Originally both devices used 2 chips for Flash, which is why we had 64 GB iPod Touches long before we had 64 GB iPhones, however to help lessen the complexity of the parts pipeline, Apple changed those devices to use 1 chip for Flash, so now a 64 GB iPad has a 64 GB flash chip in it. Last fall 128 GB flash chips started shipping, so its likely we will see 128 GB devices with the next refresh.
 
It could use some spit shine and fine tuning, but it's hardly unusable. Once you learn where all the new stuff is, it's not vastly different than what came before.

It all really comes down to how much you like having a fullscreen start menu. That's about the biggest difference between it and 7 if you ask me.

This. I don't understand the negativity towards Windows 8. Yes, it is different, but once you've learned it, it isn't at all that bad. I prefer it to Windows 7.

As for the Surface Pro, it is very pricey. Much too pricey for me as much as I'd love to have one.
 
The question is: what does it do better?

Is it a better tablet? No.

Is it a better laptop? No.

Laptops are better at being portable, so they are better than Desktops in this fashion. Is the sales pitch for Surface is that you don't have to carry an iPad mini along with your MacBook Air? Is carrying less things the sales pitch? Is that worth it for the compromise?

Netbooks did nothing better other than building the Cellular data connection into a cheap laptop. Because of this they had no repeat buyers. I don't think the Surface has enough "better" to overcome its compromise. If it could be easily used in its lap, then it would be "better" at something -- but it seems to me the Microsoft OEM's have spent more time thinking about that extremely common use case than Microsoft has.


Well, it's also a much better laptop/tablet combo (compared to iPad + MBA) at being portable. While personally I am not a big fan of tablets in general (because laptops can do everything tablets can and then some) some people may find it attractive.
 
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