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But if you had pen support on your Mac, what would compel you to use your iPad Pro?
Exactly, iPads are fake news. They're just there to sell more stuff. Almost nobody actually gets an iPad without also getting a PC to do the stuff it can't do very well. Every improvement they make to the iPad just brings it closer to being a PC.
 
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Exactly, iPads are fake news. They're just there to sell more stuff.
Possibly the least insightful comment of the thread. They are amazing devices. I gave up my MacBook Pro and use my iPad as my primary portable device.
Almost nobody actually gets an iPad without also getting a PC to do the stuff it can't do very well.
Can you provide a source that backs this statement? I know many people who moved from laptops to iPads and are very happy with them.
Every improvement they make to the iPad just brings it closer to being a PC.
Not really.
 
Why would you be against touch that would make tasks like navigating Apple Maps so much easier and quicker than finger gymnastic gestures? It'll be just another input option but you're not forced to use it and can stick to the hard way with touchpad.
I see reaching up to the screen from the keyboard as the hard way lol. I’ve never thought of trackpad gestures as hard or finger gymnastics. I mean, they’re the exact same gestures as those on touch screen but on the trackpad 😳.

But I suppose I would need touch gestures to pan/rotate/zoom/scroll while using the device in slate mode with the pencil. Keyboard shortcuts are more ideal, but I probably won’t usually have an external keyboard handy. The bad thing about mixing touch and pen input though is the occasional accidental touch input, and the finger oil quickly builds up on the surface and affects the pen friction.
 
Possibly the least insightful comment of the thread. They are amazing devices. I gave up my MacBook Pro and use my iPad as my primary portable device.

Can you provide a source that backs this statement? I know many people who moved from laptops to iPads and are very happy with them.

Not really.
iPad OS was exactly that, more PC features for the iPad. Previous iOS updates were also that to a lesser extent. The MS Surface already proved that you can have a tablet and laptop in one, and though I'd never touch Windows with a 10' pole, I'll admit they've done well there. iPad sales were highest when the iPad was first introduced, and a downward trend followed, suggesting they were all hype. (There was a recent uptick in sales, but that was amid tech companies broadly selling more products due to covid19.)

Now we have the M1 Mac, which has all the advantages of iPad hardware and all the advantages of macOS, plus it runs iOS apps. Almost seems like Apple is going to axe the iPad eventually.
 
A couple years ago we were looking at new condos in our area. The sales rep had a Microsoft Surface and we wanted to see what units were for sale. He was running excel. He tried touch, which was a mess, then the pen, mess again, finally his keyboard which was screwed up too. He finally pulled out a thick stack of paperwork and after 15 min we were off to check out the new units. I still feel sorry for that guy, & thought it reflected really badly on the sales company. We didn’t purchase any of the units. Microsoft’s Surface played a small part in our decision making.
 
Not a very good advert but the Touch Bar is kinda lame though.....here hoping it goes away and is replaced by something more ergonomically useable.
 
These ads are lame! Yes, let’s compare a 128GB - 4GB RAM low performance tablet with a screaming fast 256GB - 8GB MacBook Pro (forgetting the MacBook Air in the process). I can’t believe people still are falling for them… I guess the same who fall for scams on the Internet!
 
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Okay “Surface Boy,” Your Future Peers Use Macs: Kendrick Lamar, Spike Lee, Tyler Perry, DJ Kahled, Oprah Winfrey, Billy Eilish, Oak Felder, Jacob Collier, Anna Wintour, just to name a few.... Oh, and Me! And Surface Boy, with all that money spent on games you can easily get that MacBook Pro which you "really" want.
 
Ironically, I was looking at this earlier today; not a bad set up. I have yet to find a price for this 'plus' business version fully configured.

You can find business pricing here but it's full MSRP and education/military discounts don't apply. Actually want a version with Ryzen 5000U mobile as I'm also using a Lenovo Yoga 6 with Ryzen 4650U and am on the 3rd day with 40% battery left so it seems to be competing with my ARM Surface Pro X and Macbook Air M1 in battery life while retaining full x86-64 compatibility.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/configure/Surface-Pro-7-for-Business/8P43N3K93409
 
Exactly, iPads are fake news. They're just there to sell more stuff. Almost nobody actually gets an iPad without also getting a PC to do the stuff it can't do very well. Every improvement they make to the iPad just brings it closer to being a PC.

I know many people used own very old desktop computer they rarely used. Only use it online shopping or type letter once in while. They all replace that with iPad and only own iPad no desktop and no laptop. iPad more than enough for those type of people. My mum one example. She struggle use any PC but can use iPad browse internet and type up letters to her pen friend abroad. She can even view photos on iPad, before we have to print photos out for her to have look cos she can't understand how use PC view photos. iPad save us lot of paper and ink cost for that! 🤣
 
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People that say that have never used one. Tent structure is inherently more stable than teeter totter clamshell. Surface form factor is the future with versatility to transform from 1.7# tablet to 2.3# laptop with touch and pen inputs. Like with Apple being forced to move to phablets they eventually will have to answer with a Surface type form factor. Never going back to relic clamshell maybe unless it's super lightweight like 2# Thinkpad X1 Nano.
I have both, I dunno how wide your thighs are but at the last Microsoft Ignite(formerly TechEd) all the MS fans sat in the front row with their new Surface pros... every 10 mins you hear a Surface slip off their lap and smack onto the floor lol
 
You can find business pricing here but it's full MSRP and education/military discounts don't apply. Actually want a version with Ryzen 5000U mobile as I'm also using a Lenovo Yoga 6 with Ryzen 4650U and am on the 3rd day with 40% battery left so it seems to be competing with my ARM Surface Pro X and Macbook Air M1 in battery life while retaining full x86-64 compatibility.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/configure/Surface-Pro-7-for-Business/8P43N3K93409
Is a Ryzen 5000U version forthcoming or just your wish list? I'm impressed by the link you sent me, and it sure does look pretty darn cool - thnaks!
 
I have both, I dunno how wide your thighs are but at the last Microsoft Ignite(formerly TechEd) all the MS fans sat in the front row with their new Surface pros... every 10 mins you hear a Surface slip off their lap and smack onto the floor lol

Sounds like a Pinocchio story. I have both. MBA is heavier and a lot more slippery so slides off easier. Difference in width between the two is less than a fraction of an inch.
 
Is a Ryzen 5000U version forthcoming or just your wish list? I'm impressed by the link you sent me, and it sure does look pretty darn cool - thnaks!

Wish list. Surface Laptop 3 has Ryzen option so hopefully it comes to Surface Pro.
 
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A couple years ago we were looking at new condos in our area. The sales rep had a Microsoft Surface and we wanted to see what units were for sale. He was running excel. He tried touch, which was a mess, then the pen, mess again, finally his keyboard which was screwed up too. He finally pulled out a thick stack of paperwork and after 15 min we were off to check out the new units. I still feel sorry for that guy, & thought it reflected really badly on the sales company. We didn’t purchase any of the units. Microsoft’s Surface played a small part in our decision making.
Shortly after Christmas, I showed off my iPhone 12 Pro Max; when messages locked up, and the phone keypad screen froze. My friends and family asked me how much that thing cost. Yeah, I felt kind of stupid. I just finished installing 14.4, and things seem to be working better. So, things can go either way with our fancy technology.
 
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Hint 2 I agree with . Hint 1 shows Apple has no clue what gamers want
You mean what "some" gamers want. You need to admit that there are segments in a market, and that's true for gaming as well. Flappy Bird (50M) and Candy Crush (2.7B) outsold by a huge margin even the mighty World of Warcraft (14M), which shows that gaming is a relative term, and frankly in the long run as a game developer, I'd rather be in the segment that sells 50 million or 2.7 billion copies than 14 million. When you look at it like that, "serious gaming" is a pretty small segment.
 
Hint 2 I agree with . Hint 1 shows Apple has no clue what gamers want

I will say it’s more that Apple has made a conscious decision to focus on the casual gamer market (which has more mass appeal), a decision that’s made even easier by their large iPhone install base.

They know very what serious gamers want. They just don’t feel it’s worth their while chasing this market.
 
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I will say it’s more that Apple has made a conscious decision to focus on the casual gamer market (which has more mass appeal), a decision that’s made even easier by their large iPhone install base.

They know very what serious gamers want. They just don’t feel it’s worth their while chasing this market.
I think they have been waiting to disconnect themselves from x86 before they attempt to shore up bigger game developer interest in the Apple ecosystem, which I am sure there will be a lot of considering the performance of the M1 devices so far and the cross platform compatibility with iPad and iPhone - it has the potential to be a very lucrative platform to develop for, and offer some very unique gaming experience possibilities that will just not possible in the fragmented PC market.
 
Yes, those are prime examples of just how much Apple is not interested in gaming.
First, by ”not interested in gaming” you mean ”not interested in pushing hard at the moment on hard core PC gamer games”? If so, you are correct that Apple Arcade does not yet target that market. Not sure why you think that Apple Silicon shows that though. We will have to see what Apple’s higher end GPU story is, but I fully expect their next generation of Apple Silicon products to beat any of the competition in CPU performance. This gives them the option to release an AppleTV targeted at console gamers that would allow the Switch-like ability to play in the family room on the big screen, seamlessly move to mobile on an iPad and finally end up on an iMac in one’s bedroom.
Hint 3 would be the IAP hell they invented.
Not sure why you think that Apple invented in app purchase. FarmVille and other Free-to-play games did it on Facebook well before they did it on iOS.

Apple Arcade specifically pushes back on that model as there are no in app purchases at all.
 
I think they have been waiting to disconnect themselves from x86 before they attempt to shore up bigger game developer interest in the Apple ecosystem, which I am sure there will be a lot of considering the performance of the M1 devices so far and the cross platform compatibility with iPad and iPhone - it has the potential to be a very lucrative platform to develop for, and offer some very unique gaming experience possibilities that will just not possible in the fragmented PC market.
I think they have not yet decided if they want to pursue a hard core gaming strategy, but I do agree that it made no sense for them to do so when they had no way of differentiating from less expensive PC hardware. Their unified platform gives them the opportunity to offer developers a seamless path from the console to mobile and desktop, with games that can move among these platforms.

Whether they will decide to do what is needed is anyone’s guess. :-D
 
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