Microsoft's Surface Book Ads Borrow Music From Apple to Focus on Things a Mac 'Just Can’t Do'

[TechZeke]

just curious, does that Surface Book top configuration include the 2nd GPU?

Whats the GPU option on the rMBP?

Cause for $400 more for a Laptop with the "clipboard" detachable touchscreen functionality AND the discrete GPU changes things as you will get a lot better performance from the Surface Book than the rMBP

Well, its a little complicated. For the non-dGPU models, the the Surface Book carries a $200 premium. The dGPU wouldn't even be much faster if the 13" rMBP was using Skylake with the Iris 550.

Also, Apple's and Microsoft's SSDs aren't created equal. MS's SSDs only get 300mb/s write, IIRC.

To finish, the high end models are actually even more expensive than a 15" rMBP. At $2700, the only real benefit is the detachable screen. Compare it to Razer blade 14, and the value is even worse.

With that said, its a cool machine and would totally buy one. The pen and detachable screen are really going to have to make a difference to your workflow on to make it worth it on the high end, especially when the rMBPs and Razer Blade 14 get skylake.

 

[macs4nw]

.....Anyhow, it's nice to see MS righting itself after Ballmer's reign of terror. As a computer user, I like having access to more than one tool. Keep on rocking, MS.

Let me help you with that "t" you overlooked.

Seriously, these are nice sleek machines that can be maxed out to be powerhouses, for those who need those kinds of upgrades. Maybe it's only by contrast to his predecessor but, I for one am really impressed with Satya Nadella's leadership of MS; they no longer seem to be floating 'rudderlessly' in the vast digital 'ocean', but at the very least appear to have a roadmap lately.

 

[SnapperUK]

He can't do that on his Mac? So he has a Mac, presumably for personal use, and only uses Windows for work because he has to? That's a terrible message from MS.

Actually looks like he uses a Mac for work. Found some BTS of him shooting. Here are some grabs.

 

[jedifaka]

Targets a non competitor, the only way Microsoft can compete is to make misleading ad's.

The MacBook Pro isn't a Surface Book competitor? I think that's the whole reason the Surface Book exists. Whether it competes successfully is exactly the kind of argument I like to read on this site. But I don't see how it's not a competitor.

 

[69650]

I love how MS uses the same exact music... same exact arpeggio just with a different instrument sound. Also, I never thought I'd see that day when MS felt the need to compete with Apple. Interesting.
[doublepost=1457552135][/doublepost]

I disagree. They are two completely different operating systems... as they should be. You can't just duct tape a touch layer on top of OS X or an exposed file system on to iOS and expect it to be a good user experience. Which is not to say they can't work on some level of convergence. But mouse and keyboard is still fundamentally (and profoundly) different from touch.

Nonsense. There is no profound difference between touch and keyboard/mouse. I am typing this post on the touchscreen keyboard on my iPad.

 

[Renzatic]

Nonsense. There is no profound difference between touch and keyboard/mouse. I am typing this post on the touchscreen keyboard on my iPad.

There is one big difference, which sounds pretty slight in theory, but ends up being pretty profound in practice.

While they're basically the same, touch based UIs require larger targets to be used comfortably. This usually requires developers to rejigger their layouts for their desktop and tablet apps, which can make them look considerably different, even when they're doing about the same thing.

 

[happyslayer]

I briefly used a Surface Book that a friend of mine got when they first came out to test for his company. I thought the hardware was actually pretty nice and seemed well built. Very MacBook-like. But there were a lot of issues. At that time, (launch week) there were just too many weird problems and glitches with power-savings, the track pad and it didn't always seem to figure out which mode it was in. My friend ended up returning it to the Microsoft Store and going with the Lenovo Yoga Pro 900 series for his employees.

{RANT START}
Supposedly, they have fixed a lot of those issues now with Windows 10 updates and driver changes, but, in the end, this is Microsoft's way of doing things and it has really been driving me crazy as of late. As a computer consultant, I have grown so tired of the "Everybody is a Beta Tester" attitude that Microsoft seems, in my opinion, to have adopted. Since the launch of Windows 8 thru 10, I feel like they just throw stuff out there and "see how it works" then maybe fix the inevitable software glitches (or true "show stopping" problems) a few weeks later. I used to be a pretty solid Windows guy, but now I do all my work on my rMB 12" and just use my fairly beefy PC to play games on. Even with that limited use, I have been forced to do a repair/restore operation and later a full reinstall of Windows 10. Just in the last eight months! Both times because it did some Windows update over night that broke something major.

I'm in the developer program with Apple and install all the beta versions of OS X to see how they work so I can deal with potential issues prior to being on the job, and I have never a complete system breaking issue. Yes, the occasional glitch with one specific program or other, but never making the machine totally unusable. Granted this is just my personal use case, but I generally make my living fixing Windows issues all day long.
{RANT END}

However, back on topic... The Surface Book is definitely one of the better looking and better constructed Windows laptops. IMO. If I had to buy a Windows laptop, I would definitely consider it now that it's had it's breaking in--software updates period.

 

[thatanonymoususer]

I think you really meant, ". . .what used to make people buy Macs. . ." since Apple not longer makes top end laptops.

Yours is a pretty common insult that I've seen, but I would say that it's not true. I would say that they don't use top-end GPU's, and that is a major distinction. They do use high-end Intel parts, and the quality of the laptops themselves are extremely high-end. The resolutions are top-end compared to the average, their cpu's are top-end period. The trackpad is the most workable I've ever used. The quality of the keyboard is as good as you're going to get on a laptop. The build quality is top-end period, and the battery life is fantastic for a laptop. Their GPU's are mid-range though which has been true for any of their laptops.

I don't think that there has really been a drop in quality anywhere in their MacBook line, and the only way that you're going to think so is if you think that touch screens and gaming laptops are the only important parts of a laptop. As a developer, I would respectfully disagree.

From the standpoint of battery usage, I would also say that for the bulk of consumers, the decision to use a GPU that uses less power is the correct course of action so that they can get more hours on battery. I really like the idea of the Razer Blade Stealth + Thunderbolt 3 external graphics. Battery life when you need it, but also performant when you need it. I wouldn't be surprised to see more devices like this when Thunderbolt 3 is more widely implemented.

Saying that they don't make top-end laptops misses the mark and discounts the whole range. They really do make top-end laptops for professionals. That's why many high-performing developers use Macs. Unless you're a gamer, they make top-end products. If you are a gamer, then build your own computer or get a Thunderbolt eGPU.

 

[iLG]

Agreed, we need a touch screen true OSX product.

Bring it on Apple, stop the Pro iOS product and give us a true "Pro" product with OS X !!!!!

Message typed from my iPad Air 2

Someone needs to test that Air Bar product with a MBP. It's said to have limited OS X support

 

[duffman9000]

Yours is a pretty common insult that I've seen, but I would say that it's not true. I would say that they don't use top-end GPU's, and that is a major distinction. They do use high-end Intel parts, and the quality of the laptops themselves are extremely high-end. The resolutions are top-end compared to the average, their cpu's are top-end period. The trackpad is the most workable I've ever used. The quality of the keyboard is as good as you're going to get on a laptop. The build quality is top-end period, and the battery life is fantastic for a laptop. Their GPU's are mid-range though which has been true for any of their laptops.

I don't think that there has really been a drop in quality anywhere in their MacBook line, and the only way that you're going to think so is if you think that touch screens and gaming laptops are the only important parts of a laptop. As a developer, I would respectfully disagree.

From the standpoint of battery usage, I would also say that for the bulk of consumers, the decision to use a GPU that uses less power is the correct course of action so that they can get more hours on battery. I really like the idea of the Razer Blade Stealth + Thunderbolt 3 external graphics. Battery life when you need it, but also performant when you need it. I wouldn't be surprised to see more devices like this when Thunderbolt 3 is more widely implemented.

Saying that they don't make top-end laptops misses the mark and discounts the whole range. They really do make top-end laptops for professionals. That's why many high-performing developers use Macs. Unless you're a gamer, they make top-end products. If you are a gamer, then build your own computer or get a Thunderbolt eGPU.

The trackpad... That's what made me love my MBP in 2011. It took years for the Windows world to catch up. The Surface book feels like it has a nice trackpad, but I'd had too many disappointments to believe it's better than Apple's.

 

[Arran]

Getting back to the music...

Microsoft music is too loud. Hard to tell what the guy's saying.

 

[unplugme71]

When you run out of things to copy on the product, you start copying the commercials.

 

[Breaking Good]

The MacBook Pro isn't a Surface Book competitor? I think that's the whole reason the Surface Book exists. Whether it competes successfully is exactly the kind of argument I like to read on this site. But I don't see how it's not a competitor.

The current Microsoft leadership is not interested in becoming a hardware vendor like Apple. That was Steve Ballmer and he is gone (good riddance).

Microsoft took a US$1 billion write-off because of that idiot Ballmer's debacle with the Surface RT. Satya Nadella isn't going to repeat that mistake.

Microsoft is using the Surface line to showcase the capabilities of Windows and show the direction they think Windows hardware should go.

From what I can tell, I think this strategy is working quite well. Dell, HP and Lenovo have come out with some pretty impressive 2-in-1 devices and they are far cheaper than the any of the Surface devices. Check out the Dell XPS 12 as an example.

 

[Amazing Ox Space Monkey]

just curious, does that Surface Book top configuration include the 2nd GPU?

Whats the GPU option on the rMBP?

Cause for $400 more for a Laptop with the "clipboard" detachable touchscreen functionality AND the discrete GPU changes things as you will get a lot better performance from the Surface Book than the rMBP

If it is not exclusively written on their website - then the answer is "no"
[doublepost=1457561234][/doublepost]

You think all i7s are the same, do you?

Does the Microsoft website specify which i7 they use in the SB?

 

[commanderclif]

"I can't do that on my Mac."
So he admits to owning a Mac...in a Microsoft commercial.

 

[monty7r7]

Apple should build a true Mac tablet.

Can we call it a Mac-let?

 

[star-affinity]

Why they couldn't go in and fix this, I don't know. Give all standard UI elements the "modern" look. Create new icons. Move every system control into the shiny new Settings app. Give the OS some polish, Microsoft, for goodness sake!

They also need to get third party developers along. Many apps still looks like they're made for Windows 95. :-/

 

[Amazing Iceman]

One huge thing the iPad can't do that Microsoft Surface can do is crash miserably.

I'm not complaining about this 'iPad weakness'.

 

[jedifaka]

"I can't do that on my Mac."
So he admits to owning a Mac...in a Microsoft commercial.

Isn't that the point of this campaign? "See - lookit this Mac guy. He loves our Surface Book!"
It might or might not work, but they're clearly trying to appeal to potential switchers.

 

[swajames]

Also, Apple's and Microsoft's SSDs aren't created equal. MS's SSDs only get 300mb/s write, IIRC.

That's not accurate. Some early reviews saw some variations in write performance, but even then write speeds were mostly good. Many if not most of the early wrinkles were worked out with software updates.

 

[happywaiman]

Do we really need a touch screen over laptop?
I thought we are doing detail work there. So why are a 3% error input is acceptable?
Or are we suppose to zoom in 3x to use it?

 

[Black Belt]

Can we call it a Mac-let?

No....Crabapple. Copyright 2016

 

[nt5672]

Yours is a pretty common insult that I've seen, but I would say that it's not true. I would say that they don't use top-end GPU's, and that is a major distinction. They do use high-end Intel parts, and the quality of the laptops themselves are extremely high-end. The resolutions are top-end compared to the average, their cpu's are top-end period. The trackpad is the most workable I've ever used. The quality of the keyboard is as good as you're going to get on a laptop. The build quality is top-end period, and the battery life is fantastic for a laptop. Their GPU's are mid-range though which has been true for any of their laptops.
. . . .

Technically there is a lot right about your response. The problem with Apple is their lack of desire to handle the full user base like they used to. Yes, I want a better GPU, yes, I want more memory, yes, I want a larger screen, yes, I don't care about resolution, and yes, I don't care about battery life. But not because I am a gamer, I am a business user. My office is all over the country and I have used Macs since they came out with laptops. Now I can't. Why? Because Apple only wants to supply devices to teenagers to tweet, redit, and instagram. I don't mind at all if they make the lion share of their money that way, just don't abandoned me.

To make me happy all they have to do is make one top-end laptop with a 17 inch or larger screen, the fastest highest core count CPU, a reasonably fast GPU, 24GB memory, 1TB SSD, and as many ports as possible. Its perfectly fine to only get 6 hours battery life and to only update it every 3 or 4 years. Confidentiality prevents me from working on a plane and I always have an A/C plug otherwise. But I need a powerful device that I can lug around with me.

 

[keyzone72]

I think Microsoft need some decent designers, that Surface book looks UGLY.

Right... Because we all know Apple has never, ever released an ugly product to make up for a product's short coming (i.e. average iPhone battery life)

 

[Gudi]

I swear I've slipped into some sort of 1991 parallel universe where everything is opposite of reality. MS running ads to fend off Macs. But after I chuckle I think wow, is MS that desperate. Do they really feel Macs nipping at their heels? Heck even Apple doesn't care about Macs anymore.

The Surface Book is a $1500+ tabbook that needs to make a profit for Microsoft on the hardware sale itself. This is a completely different competition compared to when Microfoft just licensed out Windows and did not need to care about OEM profits and losses. Apple owns high-priced notebooks with over 90% market share. Are you really sure they don't care? Other than 1991 Google is giving away capable OSes and cloud services left and right. Microsoft's software business is in danger to be commoditized and it's high margins are under pressure from freeware. Yes they are really that desperate and marginalized in the new world of mobile computing. Microsoft is sinking fast into insignificance.