Mid 2010 MP PCIe SSD upgrade

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by KevWind, Nov 7, 2015.

  1. KevWind, Nov 7, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2015

    KevWind macrumors member

    KevWind

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    #1
    Hi new here , and I have been researching upgrading to pcie SSD for my Mid 2010 Mac Pro . I just read through the lengthy thread "
    "SATA Express meets the '09 MacPro - Bootable NGFF PCIE SSD


    There was a ton of information in that thread which is a good news bad news situation for someone just starting to learn about SSD PCIe upgrade options . And I think I know I want to do, but may have learned just enough to be dangerous.

    So rather than post in that thread I thought I would start a new one.

    My Mac Pro is a:
    333 Ghz 6 Core Westmere w/ 24 GB 1333MHz DDR3 ECC SDRAM.
    Purchased new with Apple installed 1TB HD as a boot/system drive and a 2TB HD as a storage drive .
    and the Apple installed ATI Radeon 5770.


    MY usage is mainly 90 % for Audio Production and 10% for Video production.
    For video editing I use Final Cut Pro X
    For Audio Production I am running Avid Pro Tools HD Native via PCIe card. in the slot above the Radeon video card .

    Currently I am running Mavericks 10.9.5 and But am considering moving to Yosemite or possibly El Capitan.

    So I have decided to go with a PCIe SSD solution as my boot/system drive and am currently considering in the 256 GB category . I will continue to use my current 2 TB HD storage drive as the drive for my Pro Tools Session files and FCPX Projects and make my current 1 TB HD drive a back up storage drive.

    I was originally considering the OWC Mercury Accelsior E2 240 GB @ $299

    BUT after reading here and on the Apple discussions board I am now thinking about the "Samsung SM951 256GB AHCI MZHPV256HDGL-00000 M.2 80mm PCIe 3.0 x4 SSD - OEM and Lycom DT-120 M.2 PCIe to PCIe 3.0 x4 Adapter (Support M.2 PCIe 2280, 2260, 2242 @ $216 from Amazon ..... As it appears that the Samsung has roughly twice the read /write speed of the Accelsior .

    So MY main question is I am still not quite clear as to "Trim" with either of the these option
    OWC claims that the E2 has it's own garbage collection function so "Trim enable' is not necessary.

    What I am looking is fairly simple solution to get an SSD bootable as my startup drive and location for my Pro tools and Final Cut pro applications.

    So would this Samsung/Lycom adaptor solution :
    #1 work easily as expected
    # 2 be bootable as my start up dive after formatting it in Disc Utility and installing Yosemite or El Caption
    # 3 and last, what about "Trim" ?


    Thoughts ? Thanks, Kev
     
  2. Porco macrumors 68030

    Porco

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2005
    #2
    There are many people on this forum with better knowledge about this than me, but for what it is worth I just did something similar with my 2010 5,1 Quad MP to what you want to with yours, so here's what I think:

    #1 - Yes. Installing mine was no harder than any of the other basic Mac Pro upgrades like RAM, hard drives, or other PCIe cards. From then on it was just like having another hard drive in Disk Utility, except it's much faster.

    #2 - Yes. I'm still on Mavericks for now, but plenty of others are on Yosemite or El Capitan with it as their boot drive as far as I can tell.

    #3 - If you use the latest version of Yosemite or El Capitan you can enable TRIM in the OS. If you use Mavericks like me, I can recommend buying the relatively cheap app Disk Sensei to enable TRIM, after which the OS recognises it as capable of TRIM.

    The other thing to remember is that apparently the SM951 performs best in slots 3 or 4 (the top slots). I have mine in slot 3.

    Good luck, and enjoy!
     
  3. KevWind thread starter macrumors member

    KevWind

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    #3
    Hey Thanks Porco Yes In my system slots 3 and 4 are the ones currently available
     
  4. SoyCapitanSoyCapitan macrumors 68040

    SoyCapitanSoyCapitan

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2015
    #4
    Use it as your scratch/project drive. There's no real world benefit to using it as a boot drive over a regular SSD.
     
  5. KevWind, Nov 8, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2015

    KevWind thread starter macrumors member

    KevWind

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    #5
    I am still pondering whether to stay with Mavericks or give up and move to the latest Yosemite or up to El Captian
    What is a frustrating is that for some as yet unexplained reason, Avid has failed to provide CoreAudio drivers for Yosemite any version and so far not for El Capitan either, for their HD interfaces . Which is not a problem except for what is called "trying to monitor mix translation" outside of Pro Tools and on the HD system hardware. ( which is a completely different discussion and only relevant to work flow those of us using Avid HD interfaces )

    It looks like if I were to go to El Capitan then I could just go the Samsung SM951 /Lycom adaptor route and I would not have to worry about trying to figure out which combination of Apple Samsung SSUXB and Sintech adaptor combination being mentioned in "handheldgames" thread "SATA Express meets the '09 MacPro - Bootable NGFF PCIE SSD"
    SATA Express meets the '09 MacPro - Bootable NGFF PCIE SSD
    where in the OP Spring 2015 Update section, he states " Apple PCIe SSD Options:
    A Sintech Apple PCIe SSD Adapter combined with the right Apple/Samung PCIe SSD provides a TRIM compatible solution and is competitive to most M.2/NGFF solutions in price and performance. "


    I think based on the links he provided in that section that would be this combination but could not find any direct answers or a way to contact them to ask on the Sintech sight .
    http://eshop.sintech.cn/m2-ngff-pcie-based-ssd-key-m-to-pcie-x4-adapter-for-samsung-x-p-1065.html

    And http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Apple-256GB-Flash-SSD-SSUBX-SM951-655-1858-for-Mac-Pro-iMac-MacBook-Pro-Air-/221818389864?hash=item33a5680568:g:LygAAOSw~bFWMvY-
     
  6. KevWind, Nov 8, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2015

    KevWind thread starter macrumors member

    KevWind

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    #6
    Hey thanks for the reply . Yes I saw this same statement in the other thread and was curious if it might apply to my specific situation or if it was more of a a general statement.
    To make sure I am clear
    #1 Are you referring to Pro Tools usage in general, or the specific implementation parameters with Pro Tools HD Native usage ?
    #2 Are you using some configuration of SSD's in Protools system? ,
    #3 If so can you list the system and specific SSD types and layout ?
    #4 If I am understanding correctly you are saying make the PCIe SSD drive my session storage drive and just get an SSD and mounting adaptor for one of my unused HD drive bays and use that as boot system drive ? Or perhaps something like the OWC Accelsior S Pcie SATA adaptor for 6G SSD ?

    Thanks , Kev
     
  7. SoyCapitanSoyCapitan macrumors 68040

    SoyCapitanSoyCapitan

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2015
    #7
    If you benchmark boot times or app launches for a regular SSD on a SATA2, SATA3 or PCIE SSD, the time is more or less identical, that's because the operating system files or most applications loading into memory don't saturate even the slowest of these interfaces. There are some very large apps that can, but those tend to be big games or anything that loads a package type file.

    Therefore it's fine to keep the OS and apps on an SSD in the HD bays, or on a SATA3 card if you are going to keep large files on the same disk as your OS. For detail, an SSD in the HDD bay can boot OSX in about 12-13 seconds, and Windows 10 in about 9 seconds.

    But if you work with large video or audio projects, a dedicated drive for them would be perfect. I would dedicate the PCIE SSD for that purpose. The benefit of not installing an OS on those drives is that you get to use the full capacity for your projects and the SSD itself will last longer.
     
  8. Porco macrumors 68030

    Porco

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2005
    #8
    I think SoyCapitanSoyCapitan's advice is good. For me, I wanted something approaching the fastest I could get without breaking the bank, and I knew even a 1TB SSD would leave me also needing hard drive storage in addition for the time being. I could have just bought a standard SSD and sled adapter (I still might do in the future), but if I wanted SATA III speeds I'd still have to have bought a SATA III card too, and by the time you factor the price of that in it really wasn't so much more to go PCIe SSD like I did. It suited me just right, but it is worth considering exactly what your particular circumstances will benefit from most, of course.

    One thing that I don't see mentioned much is the obvious-when-I-type-it point that by using a PCIe slot for the boot drive (whether for a SATA SSD or PCIe SSD), it leaves all 4 drive bays for other drives (I have 2 optical drives installed too, so the second optical bay isn't available for a hard drive or SSD). I currently only have 2 hard drives installed (one for data, one for backups), but I like knowing I can put another two of my drives in whenever I like and none of them are the main boot drive. So if you're still going to be using multiple old spinners in the mix for now, that may be a small point worth something. If, on the other hand, having a free PCIe slot for something else is more likely to be important to you, and four drive bays is always going to be plenty, that's another argument for using a standard SSD in one of the four Hard Drive sled bays (or a free optical bay if you have it), especially if you don't think the speed of the PCIe SSD or a SATA III card/SSD will ever be of real world benefit, as SoyCapitanSoyCapitan says.

    I'd put off going SSD in my Mac Pro for much longer than I knew should have, and now it feels like a new machine. Whichever option you go for, I'm sure you will love it.
     
  9. KevWind, Nov 9, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2015

    KevWind thread starter macrumors member

    KevWind

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    #9
    Yes SoyCaptians advice and bench marks makes a lot sense about real world launch times .
    So I am now actually thinking about using a Samsung SM951 512 BG in PCIe slot 3 for main session storage drive
    And then a 256 SSD or even 128 for a boot drive. and make my two HD's dual backups
     
  10. KevWind, Nov 9, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2015

    KevWind thread starter macrumors member

    KevWind

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    Nov 7, 2015
  11. Porco macrumors 68030

    Porco

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    #11
    Ha, was going to reply to you about the now-edited post, I guess you found that thread! ;)
    Anyway, sounds like a plan, Kev.
     
  12. handheldgames macrumors 6502a

    handheldgames

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2009
    #12
    try it as a system / apps / boot disk. you might be surprised. unlike windows, os/x is tuned to run on this technology. timings and ego's aside, in my app development world, a system running on a pcie ssd offers a faster and more responsive, beachball free experience.
     
  13. flowrider, Nov 9, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2015

    flowrider macrumors 601

    flowrider

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    Nov 23, 2012
    #13
    I use my SM951 as my boot drive with all my applications installed on it. I have four other SSDs in my system, two on an Apricorn Velocity Duo x2 and two mounted in the HDD bay. I can definitely feel the difference using the SM951 as my boot drive vs either the Apricorn or SATA mounted drives. I have posted BlackMagic and AJA System Test results in other threads on this forum.

    Lou
     
  14. KevWind, Nov 10, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2015

    KevWind thread starter macrumors member

    KevWind

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    Nov 7, 2015
    #14
    Yes I did and do not want to mess around with "modifying EFI " o_O whatever that is .
     
  15. KevWind, Nov 10, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2015

    KevWind thread starter macrumors member

    KevWind

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    Nov 7, 2015
    #15
    Am I correct in assuming your replying to my post number #9 and not #10 where I posted asking about using a Samsung Pro 950 NVMe pcie, but then as Porco guessed, I happened to find the "NVMe for Mac 5.1" thread and decided against that and edited the post .

    So if you are replying to #9 , Am I correct in assuming your saying have the boot drive/apps also be on a PCIe ssd , as opposed to an SSD on a HD drive bay adaptor ?
    If so that is actually one of the options I thought about, as I still have PCIe slots 3 and 4 available.
     
  16. KevWind thread starter macrumors member

    KevWind

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    Nov 7, 2015
    #16
    Thanks for replying, I am as I said in the process of researching and open to all opinions and experiences. Can I ask which adaptor brand you are using for the SM951? Thanks, Kev
     
  17. pastrychef macrumors 601

    pastrychef

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    Sep 15, 2006
    Location:
    New York City, NY
    #18
    Everything in this thread has been covered in the original NGFF PCI-e SSD thread.
     
  18. KevWind, Nov 10, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2015

    KevWind thread starter macrumors member

    KevWind

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    Nov 7, 2015
    #19
    Actually not really. My exact system and specific app. usage situation, is in fact not in that thread. Which is why I started this thread. Is there a problem with this thread?
     
  19. KevWind thread starter macrumors member

    KevWind

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    Nov 7, 2015
  20. Porco macrumors 68030

    Porco

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    #21
    No it hasn't. There's no-one saying everything has been covered in another thread in that thread, for a start... :p:D
     
  21. pastrychef macrumors 601

    pastrychef

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    Location:
    New York City, NY
    #22
    When you started to ask about adaptors to use with an SM951, it made me believe you didn't even read the first post on the original thread.

    Why bother maintaining that thread if everyone who comes on doesn't bother searching and reading? How will having thousands of threads related to the same topic help future users looking for information?
     
  22. Porco macrumors 68030

    Porco

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    #23
    This is a much shorter, specific thread, and so may be much more useful for certain users with similar queries.. If we're going to limit discussion of any subject to one thread, half the forum needs deleting.

    I asked similar questions in the big thread and didn't get an answer btw, which can happen in such a big, long-running thread.
     
  23. pastrychef macrumors 601

    pastrychef

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    Sep 15, 2006
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    New York City, NY
    #24
    Thankfully, most people manage to find the information by searching and reading. I makes searching for specific topics far easier. Someone needs info on Nvidia video cards? Point him/her to the Nvidia thread. Someone wants info on 802.11ac/Bluetooth 4.0? Point him/her to that thread.
     
  24. KevWind, Nov 10, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2015

    KevWind thread starter macrumors member

    KevWind

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    #25
    Humm? ::: First contrary to what you chose to "believe" in regards to my asking about adaptors
    In my OP I clearly stated " I just read through the lengthy thread " , but that I was still unclear about some things and was simply asking for more specific qualified clarifications. Did you actually read my OP and are taking my confusion as lying ?



    More importantly Why clutter up that thread with my specific questions when it seems abundantly more efficient to start a more specifically qualified thread ?
    Also I am just one person not everybody, and this is simply one related thread WITH SPECIFIC QUALIFIERS not thousands.

    And most importantly why would you even care ? Are you in charge of forum efficiency ?
    You do realize that you are in effect end running and by innuendo breaking the forum rule under Things not to do
    7. Instructing other members to search. Instructing members to search themselves for an answer.

    While I may be naive about a lot of cMP technical terminology, I am not naive about life and peoples agendas. If you have something to contribute please do, if not, please do not derail this thread with your theories about forum efficiency
     

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