Middle Earth/The Hobbit/ Lord of the Rings

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by Huntn, Jun 4, 2018.

  1. Huntn macrumors P6

    Huntn

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    #1
    Just watched this series (LOTR) for the umpteenth time. :)

    Interesting trivia to understand how big a sacrifice Arwen made to be with Aragorn.

    Arwin and Aragorn
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arwen
    As told in "The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen",[1] Aragorn in his twentieth year met Arwen for the first time in Rivendell, where he lived under Elrond's protection. Arwen, then over 2700 years old, had recently returned to her father's home after living for a while with her grandmother Lady Galadriel in Lórien. Aragorn fell in love with Arwen at first sight. Some thirty years later, the two were reunited in Lórien. Arwen reciprocated Aragorn's love, and on the mound of Cerin Amroth they committed themselves to marry each other. In making that choice, Arwen gave up the Elvish immortality available to her as a daughter of Elrond and agreed to remain in Middle-earth instead of traveling to the Undying Lands.

    I wanted to save my Returnof the King synopsis from the movie thread:

     
  2. waloshin macrumors 68040

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    #2
    Was sad when the hobbit triology was over. Wish everything could continue.
     
  3. rafark macrumors 6502a

    rafark

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    #3
    We need more! Actually a series of it would be nice.
     
  4. C DM macrumors Sandy Bridge

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    #4
    You never know, in another 20 years they might come up with more sequels, after they re-do the existing ones with newer CGI to add even more characters and effects they wanted to have originally but didn't get to. ;)
     
  5. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #5
    And then, let us not forget the possibility of prequels, at least a dozen of them, along with much arcane lore of Middle Earth.
     
  6. Tech198 macrumors G5

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    #6

    There are some movies i can watch over, and over, and over, and over .

    I'll never get tired of them. Having said that, i'll stick to the originals...

    Once you tell the story of Frodo going off again in wired and far out places, so far from what the books, its not even related anymore.

    That's when i stop watching, I may keep the prequels, but won't watch them as often... My place is with the original story.
     
  7. Zenithal macrumors 604

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    #7
    Never fancied it myself. Though I've read that Amazon is going to make a series out of it and spend upwards of $1B on it. Should be a treat to watch.
     
  8. Huntn, Jun 5, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018

    Huntn thread starter macrumors P6

    Huntn

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    #8
    Disney needs to buy it. :p Kidding, but I would not be against another story if it could move me like the LOTR trilogy did. As a child, the Hobbit was the first fantasy book I read probably 10 years old. It transported me.

    Unfortunately in a cash grab Peter Jackson/The Studio decided that they would LOTRosize The Hobbit with the exact thinking if we make it, bloated up and significantly altered, with added climaxes (screw the book fans) they will still come. :(
     
  9. Falhófnir macrumors 68030

    Falhófnir

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    #9
    The half-elven choice between the fate of elves and the fate of men is a really deep concept (very much a signature of Tolkien!) - and I think Arwen is making an extraordinarily brave decision to die when she has the option... I’m glad the films give her a greater role than the books do where I think she’s a bit too glossed over!
     
  10. D.T. macrumors G3

    D.T.

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    #10
  11. Huntn, Jun 5, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018

    Huntn thread starter macrumors P6

    Huntn

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    #11
    Difference between goblins and Orcs.
    Of interest the difference between goblins (The Hobbit) and orcs (LOTR), by all accounts they are the same or at most one the subset of another.

    “The term goblin was used primarily in The Hobbit but also in The Lord of the Rings where it is used synonymously with "Orc". "Goblin" is an English word, whereas "Orc" is Old English, the language used by Tolkien to represent Rohirric. Thus, there is no difference between Orcs and Goblins.May 29, 2018
    http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Orcs

    Orcs
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orc_(Middle-earth)
    In J. R. R. Tolkien's fantasy writings, Orcs are a race of creatures who are used as soldiers and henchmen by both the greater and lesser villains of The Silmarillion, The Hobbit and The Lord of the RingsMorgoth, Sauron and Saruman.

    Orcs, Goblins, Yrch, Rakhâs, Gorgûn
    [​IMG]
    Artist's impression
    Attributes
    Founder
    Morgoth
    Leader(s) The Great Goblin (in The Hobbit)
    Capital Mount Gundabad, Goblin-town, Barad-dûr, Orthanc
    Home world Arda
    Base of operations Misty Mountains, Mordor, Isengard
    Language Orkish, Black Speech
    Although not entirely dim-witted and occasionally crafty, they are portrayed as miserable beings, hating everyone including themselves and their masters, whom they serve out of fear. They make no beautiful things, but rather design cunning devices made to hurt and destroy.

    In some of his unpublished early work, Tolkien appears to distinguish orcs from goblins. By the time of his published work, however, the terms had become synonymous. The Hobbit generally uses the term goblin, while The Lord of the Rings prefers orc. The opponents of the dwarves in "Dwarf and Goblin War" of The Hobbit are described as orcs in Appendix A of The Lord of the Rings. No distinction is made by size; large orcs, including the Uruk-hai, are just as much goblins as are smaller ones

    Regarding the origin of orcs
    The Silmarillion contains a suggestion that Orcs are descended from East Elves (Avari) captured by Melkor, their minds and bodies distorted and corrupted. There is evidence of the immortality, or otherwise long life of Orcs. ... They were elves once, taken by the dark powers, tortured and mutilated.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orc_(Middle-earth)

    However an outstanding post on Quora:
    Origins- Elf, Dwarf, Human, Hobbit, Orc
    https://www.quora.com/Are-elves-dwarves-humans-hobbits-and-orcs-genetically-related
    Yes and no, and also maybe.

    Tolkien wasn’t a scientifically minded person, much less a biologist, and didn’t think in those terms.

    That said, he acknowledged that Elves and Men must be the same species biologically, since they are capable of interbreeding and producing fertile offspring. He ascribed the differences between them to their differing spirituality: the spirits of Elves are bound to the World as long as Time endures, and their physical immortality and physiological robustness (my description, not Tolkien’s) are consequences of this.

    Men and Hobbits are indeed related. Hobbits are described as being an offshoot of Men. Spiritually, both are of the Secondborn Children of Iluvatar; both are Mortal and depart the Circles of the World upon death. They could likely interbreed if they were so inclined, although there’s no suggestion that any have done so or desired to do so. Historically, Hobbits derived most of their culture from the local Mannish population, especially language and stories. For example, at one time Hobbits and the ancestors of the Rohirrim occupied the same territory around Anduin between the Misty Mountains and Mirkwood, and the two cultures had many words of common origin (e.g., Hobbit and Holbytla).

    Dwarves, in Tolkien’s world, had a separate origin from Elves and Men. Elves and Men are the direct creations of Iluvatar and are His Children. Dwarves were created by the Vala Aule, who was impatient for the coming of the Children and wanted beings unlike himself to talk to and teach. Neither he nor the other Valar knew quite what Men and Elves would be like, so Aule’s version was a little off in appearance. When first created, the Dwarves were not independent beings but were wholly dependent on the will of Aule. Aule offered to destroy his creations, but instead Iluvatar granted them independent wills and existence. Dwarves seem to have odd genetics. Their sex ratio is different: one female for every two mnales. They are mortal but long lived compared to Men and even Hobbits, often living to 300 or so. Both sexes have beards from childhood. They are immensely strong.

    Tolkien changed his mind about the nature and origins of Orcs. In The Silmarillion, they were Elves who had been tortured and corrupted, apparently by some rather Lamarckian process. His thoughts on the matter later changed. In the “Myths Transformed” chapter of Morgoth’s Ring (HoME X), he seems to havedecided that most Orcs were corrupted Men and that the Orcs of the early first age must have been embodied lesser Maiar (and that later, some of their leaders continued to be so). He came to view Orcs (and Trolls) as not having souls or true independent wills, but a fascimile thereof while their masters (Morgoth and Sauron) were around. Orcs bred and multiplied “after the manner of the Children of Iluvatar,” which must mean that female Orcs existed, were impregnated by males, gestated, and gave birth. Orcs and Men (sexes not disclosed) could be made to interbreed. Saruman is said to have had half-Orcs in his service, and in Bree, Frodo speculated that Bill Ferny was in league with a man having Orc-blood.


    --- Post Merged, Jun 5, 2018 ---
    I agree completely. The Hobbit Movie series was just a money grab where they maintained a framework, but then bloated it out, destroyed the nature of the story for $$. I was finished after I watched the first movie and it's tacked on climax. Ended up seeing the second one with my Grandson, but was not happy with the portrayal of Beorn and was disgusted with the over the top Dwarves barrel escape from the wood elves, down the river. Need a little OTT action to hold the audience's attention! :(
     
  12. rhett7660 macrumors G4

    rhett7660

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    #12
    I love the books and yes I love the movies! I have all of them on disc/ripped to NAS and have watched them all way to many times to count.

    I think a series Amazon is planning on doing could be very interesting.
     
  13. Huntn thread starter macrumors P6

    Huntn

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    #13
  14. eyoungren macrumors Core

    eyoungren

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    #14
    One of my favorite scenes towards the end of the third movie is when Elrond brings Arwen to Aragorn.

    Aragorn finally gains his approval and consent to wed Arwen in that scene because he has met all of Elrond's conditions.
     
  15. Huntn thread starter macrumors P6

    Huntn

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    #15
    One of several scenes that gave me choked me up a bit. I don't normally get emotional over love stories, but... this time. What normally gets me is when I see a scene that strikes me as perfection, the accumulation of a great act, sequenced perfectly, and it's outcome. The climax of Avatar is also awesome, although I may get some disagreement about that from someone. :)
     
  16. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #16
    I enjoyed the Hobbit, but I just couldn't get into the Lord of the rings, it was just too much for me.
     
  17. D.T. macrumors G3

    D.T.

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    #17
    The Hobbit was a train wreck. I'm a huge fan of the original source material (I read the LOTR Trilogy for the first time when I was like 12, before the Hobbit funny enough).
     
  18. Mousse macrumors 68000

    Mousse

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    #18
    Tolkien gave us a rich mythology, so no need to rehash LoTR and the Hobbits. It's been done to death. Make movie about the First Age or the first downfall of Melkor. Or the Second Age: Sauron's rise to power. So many great stories besides Hobbits and LoTR.

    For those who want action, their are plenty of chances for them to have epic battles. Melkor vs Ungoliant, Fingolfin vs Melkor, Ancalogan vs Earendil... the list goes on. Suffice it so say, lots of larger than life heroes fight the source of ALL evil in Middle Earth.
     
  19. D.T. macrumors G3

    D.T.

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    #19
    Yes! I love this post, I totally agree, great calls on the suggested plots.
     
  20. Huntn thread starter macrumors P6

    Huntn

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    #20
    DO IT! :D
     
  21. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #21
    if only the Hobbit had a Mexican accent I could have played the role w/o the need for any make up

    [​IMG]
     
  22. Falhófnir macrumors 68030

    Falhófnir

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    #22
    It would be nice - some of the battles in the silmarillion are on a completely different level to what is in LotR - but the Tolkien estate aren’t overly keen on film adaptations - particularly JRRTs son Christopher... perhaps when he’s passed and some of the more distant relatives are wanting to continue benefiting from the windfall of the IP it could happen?
     
  23. Huntn thread starter macrumors P6

    Huntn

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    #23
    Did you make it to The Return of the King? The Battle of Pelennor Fields an amazing battle and the movie a wonderful climax for the story. Of course I had the benefit of being a long time book fan and already vested in the books (reread twice) and the first two movies.
     
  24. eyoungren macrumors Core

    eyoungren

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    #24
    Hey look, I just addeded another like to your already top like score!!! :rolleyes:

    :D
     
  25. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #25
    No sadly, I forget where I ended, its been a while, but I know I didn't make it deep into the story.
     

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