Ming-Chi Kuo Says Apple Considering Lower-Priced HomePod After Potentially Lackluster Sales

[madmaxmedia]

This is Apple saying 'Me Too' in response to the Echo and the Google Home.

Unfortunately, this isn't even that. This was more like a sequel to the iPod Hifi, totally focused on audio quality- which is fine.

The problem is that Apple got caught totally flat-footed by the success of the various multi-purpose AI assistants with audio capabilities as one of those purposes, and so the HomePod became shoehorned in as Apple's response.

What they should have done is 1.) Improve Siri, 2.) develop a Echo-type speaker with decent audio quality, and then 3.) also develop a speaker with better audio quality (which is what the HomePod is.)

 

[spiderman0616]

Unfortunately, this isn't even that. This was more like a sequel to the iPod Hifi, totally focused on audio quality- which is fine.

The problem is that Apple got caught totally flat-footed by the success of the various multi-purpose AI assistants with audio capabilities as one of those purposes, and so the HomePod became shoehorned in as Apple's response.

What they should have done is 1.) Improve Siri, 2.) develop a Echo-type speaker with decent audio quality, and then 3.) also develop a speaker with better audio quality (which is what the HomePod is.)

Apple has goofed up on Siri, it’s good enough for what I need it to do, but could definitely stand to be better.

However, it’s pointless to sit here and constantly harp on that point. With the huge increase in hiring on the Siri team in recent months and the hiring of one of Google’s top AI people, you can assume they are working on improving Siri. What else can you really ask at this point? Can’t do anything about past missteps now. Just have to fix it going forward.
[doublepost=1523725977][/doublepost]

My take. If I were to get a smart speaker, that actually has some fidelity, it would be a HomePod. As long as Siri does the basic tasks well I’m good. I have no use for google home or Alexa. I had a taste of Alexa. My son bought us an echo dot and at first we were excited but now it sits in the corner unplugged gathering dust.

Second, how could he (Ming) know exactly what Apple has been thinking unless he was debriefed by someone inside Apple that is in the know?

He doesn’t know. He and Gurman get FAR too much respect for their garbage reporting that’s usually sourced by “people familiar with the matter.”

This cut in orders lines right up with the rumor from a few months ago that other suppliers were going to get in on the HomePod manufacturing action, namely Foxconn. It’s possible that sales are not as expected, but it’s also possible that other suppliers are taking on orders now too. Who knows? I mean other than the usual “people familiar with the matter.” Nothing is mentioned about Foxconn in these reports.

What makes me INSANE about Apple is that they let the media take narratives like this and run with them. Sometimes the stories are true, sometimes they’re half true, and sometimes they’re totally false, but JEEZ Apple—take control of your news cycle once in a while and set the record straight. And no, this aspect of Apple was no better under Steve Jobs. I think a little more transparency when it comes to these doom and gloom media reports (and typical Macrumors commenter hysteria) would go a very long way.

 

[scottsjack]

I considered getting one. Then I considered what will it do for me? Easy answer, nothing. Apple how about putting some effort into products that I care about like a new MacBook Air, a new Mac mini, even a new Mac mini quad-core. I'm ready to spend money on those products.

 

[marcushe]

No reason to buy a $350 Apple HomePod (or multiple HomePods) with the Amazon / Google devices already being better for a mere $50.

Apple made a mistake thinking people want three $350 speakers in their home. Most people already have a home music stereo - no need for a $350 one (or multiple ones). I am an Apple Fan Boy and bought a Google Home mini for $30 refurb on eBay and it's everything I need.... I use iTunes AirPlay for my actual home speaker system.

I chose the Google because my main use for it will be voice web searching with questions. Amazon Echo uses Bing, so I wasn't interested in Echo.

 

[mackinmike]

It's a walled-garden speaker... limited, expensive and unnecessary. Who's the brains behind this one?

 

[ezdj]

HomePod shipments "could be far below market expectations" this year, according to reputable KGI Securities analyst Ming-Chi Kuo.

"Our understanding is that the market expects HomePod shipments to arrive at 5-10 million units in the 2018 fiscal year, versus our forecast of only 2.0-2.5 million units," wrote Kuo, in a research note obtained by MacRumors.

Kuo believes the "major miss" in HomePod shipments could be attributable to the speaker's design and pricing, among other factors.

For starters, at $349, he said the HomePod's high price "could undermine demand despite excellent sound quality." He added that Siri provides an "uninspiring user experience" compared to competitors, presumably including the Amazon Echo with Alexa and the Google Home with Google Assistant.

Kuo said the HomePod's potentially lackluster sales highlights "underlying concerns" in Apple's development of artificial intelligence.The oft-accurate analyst said Apple is "mulling" a "low-cost version" of the HomePod that may help short-term shipments. However, even if the product materializes, he predicts it will only provide a short-term boost to sales.

More importantly, Kuo believes Apple needs to improve Siri, support more languages, and make other improvements to the HomePod to stay competitive against Amazon and Google in the smart speaker market. Premium audio quality alone may not be enough for customers to justify dropping $349 on the speaker.

Kuo's research on potentially lower-than-expected HomePod shipments echoes similar reports from Bloomberg News and the China Times earlier this week. Rumors about a lower-priced HomePod have also surfaced a few times in recent months, with one report suggesting a $150-$200 price in the United States.

Apple released the HomePod in early February in the United States, United Kingdom, and Australia, and it also confirmed availability in France and Germany later this spring. AirPlay 2 features such as stereo sound and multi-room audio won't be available until later this year, according to Apple.

Article Link: Ming-Chi Kuo Says Apple Considering Lower-Priced HomePod After Potentially Lackluster Sales

 

[BryanJ]

The speaker, like the apple watch, are just more very niche devices that aren't really must-have's in life or the apple ecosystem, in my opinion. I didn't buy the speaker because I'm tired of apple's marketing and everything being over priced. I couldn't believe how much they wanted for the base model imac pro. I could build a similar system with half the the money they want for that.
A lot of the things apple has been doing lately has been mind boggling to me. Like the education event, $30 off iPads for schools? how does 10% off help schools justify a budget for iPads?
I bought the MacBook Pro at FIFTEEN HUNDRED DOLLARS whenever they introduced the touch bar for the first time and in like 3 to 6 months they updated the internals on it. WHAT?! WHAT?
Seems Apple is more about their bottom line than whats good for their customer base.

 

[ipponrg]

I think a little more transparency when it comes to these doom and gloom media reports (and typical Macrumors commenter hysteria) would go a very long way.

These aren't really doom and gloom media reports. You only interpret it this way because the number of dissatisfied posters/reports greatly outnumber the number of recent positive posts/reports.

Asking for transparency from Apple is infringing on their secrecy. They will only address issues publicly (e.g. battery gate) when it's very clear that the user is directly affected. That's the irony of it. You wanted secrecy, so you got it

 

[Starfyre]

When all Apple employees get 50% off on the product, you know they are making huge margins on this... so much so that they thought they could get away with this markup. I for one am not picking up a Homepod until the price comes down by at least what the employees got to pay for it.

 

[torana355]

Apple is getting dangerously behind in almost every category they once dominated. Name one category they still excel above the competition... I can't really not think of any today.

The bigger they are the harder they fall, its only a matter of time unless Apple change a few things. When a company gets as big as Apple they naturally become complacent and start to focus on profits rather then the innovation that got them to where they are.

 

[Greymacuser]

Who wouldn't want an Apple spy mic listening in on all their conversations at home?

 

[palmerc]

As soon as they ship with a European plug I'm going to order one. Currently people are selling the UK and US models for about $500 here.
[doublepost=1523767321][/doublepost]

The speaker, like the apple watch, are just more very niche devices that aren't really must-have's in life or the apple ecosystem, in my opinion. I didn't buy the speaker because I'm tired of apple's marketing and everything being over priced. I couldn't believe how much they wanted for the base model imac pro. I could build a similar system with half the the money they want for that.
A lot of the things apple has been doing lately has been mind boggling to me. Like the education event, $30 off iPads for schools? how does 10% off help schools justify a budget for iPads?
I bought the MacBook Pro at FIFTEEN HUNDRED DOLLARS whenever they introduced the touch bar for the first time and in like 3 to 6 months they updated the internals on it. WHAT?! WHAT?
Seems Apple is more about their bottom line than whats good for their customer base.

Are you aware that Apple Watch is completely dominating the watch market and is expected to have a great year this year? As an Apple Watch owner I can say, it is very much part of my daily routine. Love the fitness tracking, notifications, and light messaging. The Home app could be faster but works.

HomePod may not make sense to some people. I however have been disappointed by every AirPlay stereo I've tried so I'm quite willing to buy a HomePod as soon as they're offered in the European market. The chance that something might provide an AirPods-like experience for Apple TV and iPhone audio sounds (pun intended) amazing.
[doublepost=1523768169][/doublepost]

When all Apple employees get 50% off on the product, you know they are making huge margins on this... so much so that they thought they could get away with this markup. I for one am not picking up a Homepod until the price comes down by at least what the employees got to pay for it.

Huge margins. What do 'margins' have to do with the price of eggs? Seriously, do we now judge products on the market based upon whether a company is making too much selling products? Have we come to expect everyday-low-prices as some sort of moral imperative? Either the product provides an enticing set of functionality at a price or it doesn't.

Apple has historically priced products based upon position in the market. In the case of HomePod, $349 is actually reasonable, even cheap within the home audio market. So, while it may not fulfil your needs, it certainly isn't overpriced.
[doublepost=1523768508][/doublepost]

Apple is getting dangerously behind in almost every category they once dominated. Name one category they still excel above the competition... I can't really not think of any today.

Apple Watch, AirPods, iPhone, iPad, MacBook Pro. They pretty much dominate every field they're in so I guess it is a matter of perspective.

That isn't to say that the competition hasn't improved. There are some genuinely good Android phones out there, if you're willing to have a standalone phone.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

deleted comment (wrong thread)

 

[Morgenland]

I would buy a HomePod if it would integrate with AppleTV. no more hunting for the remote and holding down the Siri button.

I have successfully integrated a HomePod exactly for cinema application with AppleTV.
Summary:

1. my previous Sonsos boxes could not eliminate the audio delay between pictures and audio (I tried EVERYTHING on software and hardware variants in vain, "best" option was AirPort-Connection to PLAY5 routing enhanced PLAY1-Speakers), this could only be compensated very incomprehensibly with software.
Audio synch issues are no longer a problem with HomePod.

2. stereo is a must and unbearable missing!!!! That's the only massive accusation I have to make to Apple!! Selling MONO-equipment is a joke.

3. if you have your own film collection (e.g. mkv's) you won't be happy with AppleTV: The "best" way is (e.g. iOS devices) airplay. Here, however, buffer underloads occur again and again and an HD movie stops for a short time even if the router bandwidth is sufficient. The audio split from AppleTV to HomePod seems to make the system even more vulnerable, when using AirPods I had fewer issues.

4. purchased iTunes movies work fine because they are stored locally.

I think the software dev at Apple have to work hard not to have to laboriously recover the speaker market later due to a bad market launch. The worst example was Apple Maps. Unfortunately.

And resources not be wasted on iPhones for surface color discussions. ;-)

 

[Essaux]

I think people also pass up on the HomePod because of it’s locked ecosystem. I mean as an avid spotify user I have no need for the HomePod.

 

[Macaholic868]

I dont think Apple's problem is money (obviously) or even people. I think they have issues with decision making. Their personality driven, top down culture worked well when they were a few thousand employees. But now, with over 100,000 employees and thousands of subcontractors and outsourcing companies, they need to seriously re-think decision making culture in the company.

I agree. I also think Tim is more CEO than CEO and hands on product manager like Steve was. Steve had a huge hand in the design of every product Apple shipped including the packaging those products shipped with. I think Tim defers to Ive too often, if he ever intervenes in product design at all.

To me that’s they only explanation for what happened to their “Pro” line of hardware products starting with the trash can Mac Pro. Form over function works for consumer class devices but it has to be function over form for Pro products. Steve passed away in 2011 and the product shipped in 2013 so there’s no doubt in my mind Steve signed off on doing a prototype of the trash can but I can’t believe he’d let that ship and have it be the only option in the Pro desktop line moving forward. If Steve wanted an unupgradable, unrepairable Pro desktop system he could have had it years before he passed away.

To me the trash can had Johnny Ive’s name written all over it. That’s why it took Apple so long to finally change their tune. They really didn’t have a choice once they saw so many people purchase the older MacBook Pro when they announced the new MacBook Air .. I mean “Pro”.

 

[Chopper9]

HomePod is appropriately priced IF:

1. Siri gets smarter.
2. Device is feature complete.
3. Can be used with third-party streaming services.

OR

4. People don’t care about Siri’s smarts (or lack thereof) and only use Apple Music.

Working properly and having fully functioning software still doesn't justify the little speaker being overpriced.
It's obviously overpriced, like all Apple's hardware... except this time Apple can't fall back on the great software excuse.

This thing would have a hard time selling at $199. But at least it would be plausible.

 

[rtomyj]

BS/Lies? I can buy a stereo pair of speakers under 50 bucks, that will get much louder than the homepod. It's literally not Rocket science, but simple physics as to why a small speaker can only get so loud. Go out sometime and experience some real bass at like 140db. Sounds good, but 150db and up, is where the fun begins

And the homepod definitely sounds directional and mono. Keep your eyes closed, and spin around a few times, and you will be able to point at the exact direction where the homepod sits. Go look on youtube and you will see several of the smart speakers in its price range get louder than the homepod. It just so happens that some of these devices are also larger in size, with larger drivers, more powerful amps, etc. Again, not rocket science. Comparing the HP to a pair of small bookshelf speakers is where my "not loud" conclusion came from in the first place.
[doublepost=1523652018][/doublepost]
It's not my HP, but my friends brother. There were hard wood floors, in a room about the size of 20ft x 15ft. Just the norm of what you would find in a regular room, a TV, desk, chairs, bed, dresser, etc. We tried it in a corner and off center.

BS/Lies? I can buy a stereo pair of speakers under 50 bucks, that will get much louder than the homepod. It's literally not Rocket science, but simple physics as to why a small speaker can only get so loud. Go out sometime and experience some real bass at like 140db. Sounds good, but 150db and up, is where the fun begins

And the homepod definitely sounds directional and mono. Keep your eyes closed, and spin around a few times, and you will be able to point at the exact direction where the homepod sits. Go look on youtube and you will see several of the smart speakers in its price range get louder than the homepod. It just so happens that some of these devices are also larger in size, with larger drivers, more powerful amps, etc. Again, not rocket science. Comparing the HP to a pair of small bookshelf speakers is where my "not loud" conclusion came from in the first place.
[doublepost=1523652018][/doublepost]
It's not my HP, but my friends brother. There were hard wood floors, in a room about the size of 20ft x 15ft. Just the norm of what you would find in a regular room, a TV, desk, chairs, bed, dresser, etc. We tried it in a corner and off center.

Attacking me instead of the argument isn't going to win your argument

Again show me some evidence that is unbiased. YouTube is full of anti-Apple sentiment. For example, a big time YouTuber Marques (or whatever) is pro Google and you can see whenever he reviews Apple things he doesn't review it like he does a Pixel phone. But I'm not here to introduce more argument fallacy's or whatever

I tested mine out yesterday with a Song by Janelle Monae (R&B). HomePod is in my room to my kitchen (about 10m away through concrete, room is last in hallway). Closed room, Full bast and I can hear it clearly. Heres the kicker. I can hear it (its loud) AND its clear. Not muffled (through walls), not strained (like your $50 cheapo speakers will prolly sound like). So again if you can provide evidence that the HomePod is not loud compared to similar speakers (in a meaningful way) then cool. But just because you didn't like it doesn't mean that its not a good speaker. I don't like the Pixel 2 since its expensive AND Google still mines your data, but its a good phone.

Also, the HomePod was criticized for too much bass. Soooo who should we trust? You who didn't own the HomePod or owners who didn't like the heaviness of the bass? As an owner; I put my speaker on my desk and if I'm doing work I get my desk vibrating at about 20% volume.

You're right, however the speaker is small and is restricted by physics but what Apple did was pretty damn cool. The little speaker can kick butt and some audiophiles claim that it has a speaker quality of a 1k speaker. Again do we trust audiophiles, YouTube which is Anti-Apple (some channels get demonetized if they bad mouth Goog), or you who never owned it?

Or maybe I should get out more?? ... haha get outa here bud

 

[ipponrg]

The little speaker can kick butt and some audiophiles claim that it has a speaker quality of a 1k speaker. Again do we trust audiophiles, YouTube which is Anti-Apple (some channels get demonetized if they bad mouth Goog), or you who never owned it?

With the way the term "audiophile" is thrown around here in these forums, a deaf person would be an audiophile

 

[Regime2008]

Attacking me instead of the argument isn't going to win your argument

Again show me some evidence that is unbiased. YouTube is full of anti-Apple sentiment. For example, a big time YouTuber Marques (or whatever) is pro Google and you can see whenever he reviews Apple things he doesn't review it like he does a Pixel phone. But I'm not here to introduce more argument fallacy's or whatever

I tested mine out yesterday with a Song by Janelle Monae (R&B). HomePod is in my room to my kitchen (about 1km away through concrete, room is last in hallway). Closed room, Full bast and I can hear it clearly. Heres the kicker. I can hear it (its loud) AND its clear. Not muffled (through walls), not strained (like your $50 cheapo speakers will prolly sound like). So again if you can provide evidence that the HomePod is not loud compared to similar speakers (in a meaningful way) then cool. But just because you didn't like it doesn't mean that its not a good speaker. I don't like the Pixel 2 since its expensive AND Google still mines your data, but its a good phone.

Also, the HomePod was criticized for too much bass. Soooo who should we trust? You who didn't own the HomePod or owners who didn't like the heaviness of the bass? As an owner; I put my speaker on my desk and if I'm doing work I get my desk vibrating at about 20% volume.

You're right, however the speaker is small and is restricted by physics but what Apple did was pretty damn cool. The little speaker can kick butt and some audiophiles claim that it has a speaker quality of a 1k speaker. Again do we trust audiophiles, YouTube which is Anti-Apple (some channels get demonetized if they bad mouth Goog), or you who never owned it?

Or maybe I should get out more?? ... haha get outa here bud

Attacking you? No, just cold hard facts. You said that I was "lying" and "BS" from my post about the homepod. If anything, YOU attacked me. And my point becomes invalid unless I provide you with evidence? What if I posted a link or so, and you claim bias, just like you mentioned in your post. Maybe Marques and many others see the beauty of other devices and feel they are superior. You know being a reviewer and all, he actually uses devices from all manufacturers. I would trust his opinion, for example, rather than someone who only totes pro Apple in every post, like you for instance.

With that being said, go search it yourself so you can see unbiased results from similar speakers in its price/feature range. There are many videos of people that used an spl meter with several speakers. There are blind tests, fq range tests, and all sorts of videos you can reference. Or even look at reviews. Everyone says the Max gets louder, as well as other smart speakers. What is hard to believe about that? Again, other speakers feature bigger drivers, and more powerful amps. Its not rocket science.

Saying something has too much bass means what? That the bass is overpowering the rest of the track. Does this mean the bass is loud? No. This just means the bass is louder than the mids and highs.

You can believe whatever you want, but the facts still remain true. Sometimes it's nice to go by reality, than staying in ones own bubble.
[doublepost=1523820757][/doublepost]

With the way the term "audiophile" is thrown around here in these forums, a deaf person would be an audiophile

"Audiophile" claiming the homepod to be audiophile? LOLOLOLOL

 

[spiderman0616]

These aren't really doom and gloom media reports. You only interpret it this way because the number of dissatisfied posters/reports greatly outnumber the number of recent positive posts/reports.

Asking for transparency from Apple is infringing on their secrecy. They will only address issues publicly (e.g. battery gate) when it's very clear that the user is directly affected. That's the irony of it. You wanted secrecy, so you got it

You have good points here.

 

[I7guy]

The bigger they are the harder they fall, its only a matter of time unless Apple change a few things. When a company gets as big as Apple they naturally become complacent and start to focus on profits rather then the innovation that got them to where they are.

Apple is run by some very smart people, in spite of the naysayers on this forum. Of course profits first, that’s why nobody buys Apple hardware or services. Or why they made $85b in one quarter.

 

[torana355]

Apple is run by some very smart people, in spite of the naysayers on this forum. Of course profits first, that’s why nobody buys Apple hardware or services. Or why they made $85b in one quarter.

You missed the entire point of my post. How much profit Apple made in a quarter is the very reason they will eventually fall. The amount of people i know that have stopped buying Apple gear is alarming, its just a matter of time before it starts to show on the quarterly report.

 

[Starfyre]

[doublepost=1523768169][/doublepost]

Huge margins. What do 'margins' have to do with the price of eggs? Seriously, do we now judge products on the market based upon whether a company is making too much selling products? Have we come to expect everyday-low-prices as some sort of moral imperative? Either the product provides an enticing set of functionality at a price or it doesn't.

Apple has historically priced products based upon position in the market. In the case of HomePod, $349 is actually reasonable, even cheap within the home audio market. So, while it may not fulfil your needs, it certainly isn't overpriced.

It's not about the margins, it's about how much the company is willing to make the product available to all of it's employees.

 

[jigzat]

The problem is not so much price but noise, people today are living closer than ever and noise becomes a big deal, even with legal consequences. As much as I would like a homePod my neighbors do not tolerate my music and also the other way around, so headphones are the way to go.