mini paired with Hauwei's new 4.5K 3:2 monitor = iMac killer?

[mrkapqa]

want to save my eyesight; still have not adapted to LED screens very well; to me it seems , all screens are easier to the eyes than LED; altough the spectrometer shows better band-readings than on CCFL, still prefer those monitors most of the time.
even if flickerfree, bluelightreduction etc..maybe i have just not invested yet in a really good LED monitor;
but to me they just seem straining on the eyes.

 

[Amethyst1]

Serious question not intended to offend but how did you all cope when TVs were all either 50Hz or 60Hz CRTs running an interlaced picture?

Honest-to-goodness answer: I didn't notice the flickering of my 50 Hz TV from my normal viewing distance. It only got unbearable when I got too close to it. The TV was only 20" so maybe that made it less noticeable.

 

[mrkapqa]

shouldnt it bee high time for plasma panels?

 

[Amethyst1]

shouldnt it bee high time for plasma panels?

Give me a colour e-ink display with a high refresh rate and I'm golden. No backlight, no problems.

 

[Moonjumper]

Oh ok.

Must be a nightmare really. Probably nearly everything that's LED or backlit LED, such as illuminated switches on all manner of tech, and LED clocks, use PWM. I didn't even become aware of it until 30-ish years ago when I saw my old LED bedside clock flickering on a test-video I'd made on my then-new VHS-C camcorder to see how it coped with low light.

I've had problems with LCD monitors in the past, but solved that with looking for flicker-free options, and am thankfully OK with my OLED iPhone. However, I have had issues with some LED lighting, which could become a bigger problem as it is a type of lighting that is becoming more common.

 

[MajorFubar]

Honest-to-goodness answer: I didn't notice the flickering of my 50 Hz TV from my normal viewing distance. It only got unbearable when I got too close to it. The TV was only 20" so maybe that made it less noticeable.

Have you managed to adapt to LED domestic lighting?

 

[theluggage]

Honest-to-goodness answer: I didn't notice the flickering of my 50 Hz TV from my normal viewing distance. It only got unbearable when I got too close to it. The TV was only 20" so maybe that made it less noticeable.

I didn't notice the flicker from 50Hz CRT computer displays until I got spoiled by higher-rate displays. I think it was using the 70Hz Atari ST display that made everything else suddenly look like a strobe light.

Also, I think the switch (around the same time if you weren't on Mac) from mostly dark screens to black-on-white GUI screens made CRT flicker more noticeable.

The weird one is the "soap opera effect" that can make higher-frame rate video trigger a negative association with cheaply-made studio-based TV (which, of course, was shot directly on video cameras at 50/60 fields per second and actually had smoother motion than 'proper' 24fps movie film). It was blamed on the interpolation done by 100/120Hz TVs (which certainly bugged me for weeks after I first got an LCD TV until my brain adjusted) - but, as the link says, it also showed up on The Hobbit which was actually shot at 48fps, with people saying that it looked like behind-the-scenes footage...

 

[Amethyst1]

Have you managed to adapt to LED domestic lighting?

I don't use LED domestic lighting. So... I don't know.

I didn't notice the flicker from 50Hz CRT computer displays until I got spoiled by higher-rate displays. I think it was using the 70Hz Atari ST display that made everything else suddenly look like a strobe light.

I got started with PCs before switching to Mac, and definitely noticed the grey-on-black DOS text mode (720×400@70Hz) being less flickery and easier on my eyes than the standard black-on-white GUI VGA mode (640×480@60Hz) which was painful even on the small 14" CRT my first PC came with.

 

[Moonjumper]

TFT Central have an article on the latest panel plans for BOE (their articles about the panel plans for the manufacturers are often interesting). https://tftcentral.co.uk/news/boe-latest-panel-development-plans-july-2022

The most relevant for this thread is a 28.2" 3:2 3840 x 2560 panel, which should now have entered mass production. Either this is a new supply for the Hauwei MateView, or we are going to see 3:2 monitors from other manufacturers in a few months. That would be brilliant for choice.

Also of interest are two 27" 5120 x 2880 panels, similar to the 27" iMac (production scheduled for Q4 2022 and Feb 2023, monitors usually appear on the market a few months later). Hopefully that means a new generation of 5K monitors. And a 31.5" 6034 x 3384 similar to the XDR display (XDR = 6016x3384), so hopefully a cheaper alternative at that res (Q1 2023). Plus two mentions of 31.5" 8K panels (Q2 2022 (so should be in production) and H1 2023 (with 5K+ dimming zones)).

 

[lepidotós]

or we are going to see 3:2 monitors from other manufacturers in a few months. That would be brilliant for choice.

I really hope so, a $275 offering would convince me to grab one.

 

[Amethyst1]

And a 31.5" 6034 x 3384 similar to the XDR display (XDR = 6016x3384), so hopefully a cheaper alternative at that res (Q1 2023).

The resolution is possibly a typo, since it's not quite a 16:9 aspect ratio. My guess is that it'll be 6016×3384 if the height is accurate.

I really hope so, a $275 offering would convince me to grab one.

Where's that number coming from, just out of interest?

 

[lepidotós]

Where's that number coming from, just out of interest?

A place I'd probably be banned for talking about, but ~$300 does seem to be the going rate for entry level 28-32" 4K monitors, albiet 16:9 ones. This Samsung is $300, for instance. This Asus is $281.80, a hefty 3¢ discount from its $281.83 MSRP. Yeah, they're both 60Hz, but so is the MateView. This HP is $225.​

 

[Amethyst1]

This HP is $225.

This uses a TN panel. Absolute garbage.

This Samsung is $300, for instance.

This uses a VA panel. Better than TN but doesn’t hold a candle to IPS.

 

[lepidotós]

Fair enough. Here's a $281.91 IPS from Asus. This Acer is $250.

 

[theluggage]

Hopefully that means a new generation of 5K monitors.

Fair enough. Here's a $281.91 IPS from Asus. This Acer is $250.

Unfortunately, it all comes down to economies of scale.

4k 16:9 UHD displays at 27-32" sell by the boatload, so they'll always be cheap (esp. at the lower end when they're using TV panels).

Places like BOE may plan new panels, but they'll only happen if they get the orders. It will take a "critical mass" of customers buying 5k or 3:2 4k+ screens at premium prices to bring the prices down, which probably means getting the PC market on board. Back in 2014 there were - briefly - several 5k displays on the market, but they didn't last long. Maybe they'll do better now that TB3 and DP1.4 are more common - but even then, two DisplayPorts wasn't too big an ask on a desktop PC with a discrete GPU. I think a bigger problem is that 4k is "good enough" on Windows, which has a fully scalable UI so it doesn't have the same 220ppi "sweet spot" that makes 5k@27" attractive on MacOS.

Plus, there's the gaming market, where 5k is still a bit bleeding edge when it comes to what FPS games can support smoothly, and where maybe 1080p or 1440p at higher refresh rates is actually better. Video interface standards are still the limiting factor when it comes to more than 4k at higher rates.

Maybe there's more hope for 4k+ 3:2 - Microsoft is pushing this in their surface range, and it does offer a big payoff in terms or screen real estate vs. desk space, even at 4k pixel densities.

 

[Amethyst1]

Maybe there's more hope for 4k+ 3:2 - Microsoft is pushing this in their surface range, and it does offer a big payoff in terms or screen real estate vs. desk space, even at 4k pixel densities.

I'm still hoping for a "4K" or higher-resolution panel in the good old 4:3 aspect ratio. 3840×2880 or 5120×3840... yes, please!

 

[InuNacho]

I was pretty gung-ho on this monitor but opted against it because of the difficulty getting one here in the States. I did however get a secondhand Surface Book 2 which has the 3:2 ratio and I find it to be an absolute joy to work in Affinity Photo on.
I seriously hope to see more traditional computer devices in a more squarish form factor in the future.

 

[kvic]

TFT Central have an article on the latest panel plans for BOE (their articles about the panel plans for the manufacturers are often interesting). https://tftcentral.co.uk/news/boe-latest-panel-development-plans-july-2022
...
Also of interest are two 27" 5120 x 2880 panels, similar to the 27" iMac (production scheduled for Q4 2022 and Feb 2023, monitors usually appear on the market a few months later). Hopefully that means a new generation of 5K monitors....

I read the BOE news elsewhere on another day. I thought WTF finally 2023 will be the year of 5K for the commons! Thought about asking this thread any insight into Huawei's plan for releasing such a monitor. And you kinda did it.

Unfortunately, it all comes down to economies of scale.
...
Places like BOE may plan new panels, but they'll only happen if they get the orders. It will take a "critical mass" of customers buying 5k or 3:2 4k+ screens at premium prices to bring the prices down, which probably means getting the PC market on board. Back in 2014 there were - briefly - several 5k displays on the market, but they didn't last long. Maybe they'll do better now that TB3 and DP1.4 are more common - but even then, two DisplayPorts wasn't too big an ask on a desktop PC with a discrete GPU. I think a bigger problem is that 4k is "good enough" on Windows, which has a fully scalable UI so it doesn't have the same 220ppi "sweet spot" that makes 5k@27" attractive on MacOS.
...

The Huawei 28.2 inch an unexpectedly hit in the European market surprises me to be honest. I'm quite optimistic year 2023 is finally 5K for every Mac user. BOE will have a huge domestic market of Mac users in China. Those with Mac mini, iMac, Mac laptops will flock to the new and cheaper 5K monitors. This alone will keep BOE's production line afloat and profitable. And this time around, if Huawei does a better job of industrial design, I can't imagine it won't be another hit in the European market. The rest of the worldwide markets will just follow the leads in Europe and China.

5K the way to go in 2023. Yay.

 

[mrkapqa]

the PVA panel are far supoerior to IPS for office uses, so i think also VA Panel can hold up very well to IPS.
a lot of older CCFL/TFT are TN only, yet the visibility/legibility is better than on LED IPS Panels, period.

 

[Amethyst1]

a lot of older CCFL/TFT are TN only, yet the visibility/legibility is better than on LED IPS Panels, period.

TN panels suck when it comes to viewing angles though

The Huawei 28.2 inch an unexpectedly hit in the European market surprises me to be honest.

It doesn’t surprise me at all — it just shows I’m not the only one who is sick to death of 16:9.

I thought WTF finally 2023 will be the year of 5K for the commons! Thought about asking this thread any insight into Huawei's plan for releasing such a monitor.

Why do you think Huawei is going to release a 5K monitor? They have a clear interest in 3:2 panels so the MateView makes perfect sense but I don’t see them releasing a 16:9 monitor. Time will tell.

 

[kvic]

Why do you think Huawei is going to release a 5K monitor?

Due to various IP restrictions on Huawei spearheaded by US, Huawei has been in a desperate survival mode financially. They divested and picked up businesses which aren't affected by IP restriction. The 5K panels could become possibly part of a bundled deal between Huawei and BOE. So the cost to Huawei will be cheaper than other monitor vendors, and Huawei could sell at a 'premium' price and hence better profit compared to their other monitors.

 

[Moonjumper]

Why do you think Huawei is going to release a 5K monitor? They have a clear interest in 3:2 panels so the MateView makes perfect sense but I don’t see them releasing a 16:9 monitor. Time will tell.

Huawei already have 2 16:9 monitors, the MateView SE and 27" MateView GT.

I see kvic's point. If BOE are making panels for Huawei monitors, there is hope Huawei will use the BOE 5K panels. There is likely to be an additional demand for 5K monitors as iMac users swap to Mac Studio and want a screen of the same spec as they had before. When I upgrade from my iMac, it will likely be a Mac Studio, and I will be torn between the larger working area of a 5K monitor and the better 3:2 aspect ratio. Ideally there would be a 5K 3:2 monitor, or even just a monitor using the panel from the Microsoft Surface Studio (28" 4500x3000), to make my decision easier.

 

[David Hassholehoff]

It doesn’t surprise me at all — it just shows I’m not the only one who is sick to death of 16:9.

This is why I still use Apple Cinema HD 23" @ 1920x1200. I have two, both of them suffer from being too dim by modern standards (or possibly from ageing), and one of them has weird stains along top and bottom.

What is keeping me from the MateView 28" is my general distrust of anything from HUAWEI (well, anything Chinese). I would buy the monitor if it came without a Wi-Fi-module and microphone. I have even considered buying one and killing the mic and Wi-Fi permanently. But even buying one and never letting it connect to the Wi-Fi is too scary for me.

More choices would be fantastic. Especially ones without bullshιt functions and with a proper VESA-mount.

 

[lepidotós]

both of them suffer from being too dim by modern standards

You can replace the CCFL tubes with LED strips, if it's a CCFL-lit panel. I'm pretty sure it is. Those should use less energy, last longer, and be brighter than the CCFLs were.​

More choices would be fantastic. Especially ones without bullshιt functions and with a proper VESA-mount.

Yep. I don't trust microphones in anything.

 

[Fuchal]

Grabbed one of the MateViews (non-wireless) from AliExpress. Works perfectly with both my 14" M1 Pro MBP (through OWC Thunderbolt 3 Dock) and my Windows 11 PC (with 1080 Ti) both through a DisplayPort KVM from Amazon. Native res coming through the Mini DP port flawlessly! Really enjoying the aspect ratio and the image quality.