Mismanagement and Inexperience Contributed to GT Advanced's Sapphire Failures

[cdmoore74]

I wouldn't be surprised if Samsung masters a Sapphire display. They already beat Apple with having the best display in any phone.

 

[Michael Scrip]

I wouldn't be surprised if Samsung masters a Sapphire display. They already beat Apple with having the best display in any phone.

Let's hope Samsung can find a better sapphire supplier.

GT Advanced clearly wasn't it... are there others?

I dunno though... I'd rather Samsung work on perfecting their fingerprint sensor than getting into sapphire production.

If there's one thing I'd miss about my iPhone 5S... it's the TouchID sensor.

 

[ricci]

I hate to say it but,,,,,,,,,, I'm sure the Chineese are sitting back and saying, " you sure you don't want us to do it"????

 

[thelookingglass]

I hate to say it but,,,,,,,,,, I'm sure the Chineese are sitting back and saying, " you sure you don't want us to do it"????

Um, if they could do it, don't you think Apple would've gone in that direction? Mass production of this stuff on Apple's scale sounds like it's not feasible yet at this point. GTAT probably talked a good game but both sides knew that it wasn't a sure thing which is why Apple set the terms it did.

 

[wizard]

When engaged in a product delivery like iPhones you have backup and contingency plans for everything. GT could have executed perfectly and Apple would still have the back up plans in place.

We've all been slinging mud at GT, but how in the world did Apple enter an agreement with these clowns without them proving that they could deliver?

That said, Apple clearly had a backup plan to use the standard gorilla glass on the 6/6+ and executed it when GT didn't deliver. Good planning on that front likely saved the year (what happens when you have millions of phones ready to go and no covers?).

----------

Businessman with dollars in their eyes. I lived in a condo built during boom times that was horribly built because of real estate executive's inexperience at building.

Good design applies to every facet of life. This one thing that many of the Android manufactures just can't grasp.

 

[Rogifan]

So who at Apple would take the fall for this? Jeff Williams?

 

[wizard]

Sounds like GTAT was a little incompetent and very wasteful with their money. Sounds like few companies I know that got some gubmint $$ and wasted it like Solyndra and A123 Systems.

It is almost never good for a manufacturing business to go after I'll conceived government programs. It has a tendency to pull management away from the fundamentals of running the company. Further few of these slush funds last forever.

I've seen waste like this first hand. It's shameful. In the end, good jobs are wasted, good money is wasted, and no one is better in the long run.

It does end up having a massive impact on lesser employees in a company like GT.

----------

The interesting thing is that this seems to be a production issue and not a technical issue that sapphire screens wouldn't be a nice and substantial improvement. So someone who can "cook" high quality sapphire in volume could still get this business. For Apple and possibly for other smartphone manufacturers.

It can be done GT wasn't the only manufacture of this stuff. sapphire has all sorts of applications including bullet proof windows (composites) for helicopters and jet fighters. It is an interesting technology that really needs manufacturing break through so to end up in a cell phone.

So if you have an idea here about how one would produce this material cheap for Apple ID suggest talking to them. A successful process To manufacture this stuff would lead to massive earnings potential.

 

[christarp]

I wouldn't be surprised if Samsung masters a Sapphire display. They already beat Apple with having the best display in any phone.

"beat"? Nobody is ever beat in the cell phone industry, it just leapfrogs to whoever retains top position for a short time. When the iphone 4 came out apple "beat" everyone else to having the best display in any phone..

 

[wizard]

Wasn't there anybody monitoring how these were created and trying to make adjustments to eliminate the cracks?? Some very simple adjustments might have made most of them usable, just takes some tweaking I would think. Sounds like they just wasted all the money and gave up or something. Very weird.

I think it comes down to this, what have other manufacutres used to produce these boules. I'd laugh my ass off if we found out that they where using GT supplied equipment. Sadly it looks like this team had no management skill whatsoever with respect to actually manufacturing the Sapphire. I've worked within the machine building and maintenance industries for years and completely understand the differences between building a machine and actually using it. The skills are dramatically different.

----------

This partnership never made any sense to me. Apple puts up all the money, and takes all the risk to front these clowns? And they're caught off guard like this after loaning millions upon millions of dollars? Who put this deal together?

Why wasn't it a better idea to handle this in house again?? What exactly did GT bring to the table?

Why not do it in house? That Is easy, as a manufacture you can't make every single component of your product and you don't even try if you can't add real value over a purchased item. Auto manufacutres and more so truck manufactures are prime examples as they contract with hundreds of suppliers. Some things you just can't justify from the standpoint of economics.

----------

I hate to say it but,,,,,,,,,, I'm sure the Chineese are sitting back and saying, " you sure you don't want us to do it"????

That is also wishful thinking. If there was a way to manufacture this stuff in high quantities they would have a national plan to dominate the market. There are just to many uses for the material outside of cell phones to ignore feasible mass production.

 

[michelepri]

yes, most new companies and startups make mistakes. Apple did too. But Apple was lucky enough to find a relatively forgiving environment, with steve jobs going in and out of the company. If Apple was in a similar situation as GT and had a partner like today's Apple, they would have been dead in 2 weeks. Maybe Jobs could remember how it's like to start and innovate. Others at Apple today can't care at all, and this attitude is starting to show up in their boring products, besides putting them at the same level of the cheapest and filthiest of all collector agencies. I love OS X, I use it, but I hope to see Windows catch up and fly away from these psychos.

 

[cocacolakid]

Last week we were told GT went under because Apple was the big meanie who demanded they pull up their big boy pants. Now we find out they were incompetent. Who'd a thunk?

 

[KPOM]

We've all been slinging mud at GT, but how in the world did Apple enter an agreement with these clowns without them proving that they could deliver?

That said, Apple clearly had a backup plan to use the standard gorilla glass on the 6/6+ and executed it when GT didn't deliver. Good planning on that front likely saved the year (what happens when you have millions of phones ready to go and no covers?).

That's probably why the terms were as favorable to Apple as they were. This was a high-risk project, and Apple wanted to make sure that if things didn't work out, they would a) be protected, and b) have an alternative ready to go.

 

[AppleScruff1]

Which is exactly why Apple put the terms that they did into the contract.

And got burned for half a billion $.

 

[SoAnyway]

This is a classic case of over promising and under delivering, severely under delivering on the part of GT.

How did they get away with pissing away so much money and keeping people on the clock for so long while nothing of value was ever produced?

Now it's clear what was really going on with those reports of poor yield all those months back.

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

More here. http://9to5mac.com/2014/11/19/more-details-gtat-apple/

 

[Keirasplace]

A lot of people asking why Apple would sign a contract with these guys when they had no proven track record - don't forget the contract placed all the risk with GT. Also, there's nothing here to counter GT's claim that Apple refused to buy the hardware GT believed was required.

I doubt we'll eve truly know what happened, as Apple won't publicly give their side of the story. Dignity, arrogance, paranoia, call it what you like, but I think they'll keep tight lipped about it.

WTH are you saying, GTAT put up no money at all while Apple lost hundreds of millions, and they went bankrupt without paying any of it while the C level execs made ten million. The risk was mostly on Apple and the employees. The C suite made out more than in their entire life. They shouldn't work anywhere else EVER.

----------

yes, most new companies and startups make mistakes. Apple did too. But Apple was lucky enough to find a relatively forgiving environment, with steve jobs going in and out of the company. If Apple was in a similar situation as GT and had a partner like today's Apple, they would have been dead in 2 weeks. Maybe Jobs could remember how it's like to start and innovate. Others at Apple today can't care at all, and this attitude is starting to show up in their boring products, besides putting them at the same level of the cheapest and filthiest of all collector agencies. I love OS X, I use it, but I hope to see Windows catch up and fly away from these psychos.

Apple had already sunk 500 million into those fracking bozos... Not many "startups" get that kind of money... BTW, thiscompany was not a startup, it was listed on the stock exchange for god's sake.

 

[MacSince1990]

No wonder GT blew threw its cash. Folks didn't even know who they reported to? Unmonitored sick days? Unlimited overtime with no work to do?

That sounds awesome

 

[samcraig]

I still find it odd that Apple wasn't somewhat aware of what was going on. Given Apple's investment and contract- was there so little oversight of the company that they could do massive hirings, unlimited overtime and have people twiddling their thumbs? Are we now hearing these things by disgruntled employees who know their boss walked away rich and now they are out of a job.

I still think there is so much we really don't know.

 

[tsadi]

And got burned for half a billion $.

It would've been the advancement of the decade had it worked. I'm sure they made several bets that big before that we haven't heard about.

 

[Michael Scrip]

It would've been the advancement of the decade had it worked.

Yep.

This deal was supposed to result in the production of more sapphire than the rest of the industry combined.

And now nothing...

 

[rGiskard]

I think it comes down to this, what have other manufacutres used to produce these boules. I'd laugh my ass off if we found out that they where using GT supplied equipment. Sadly it looks like this team had no management skill whatsoever with respect to actually manufacturing the Sapphire. I've worked within the machine building and maintenance industries for years and completely understand the differences between building a machine and actually using it. The skills are dramatically different.

GTAT recently were sued for selling faulty Sapphire furnaces, so this is one of those cases where they can neither build nor use the machines:

GTAT lost an American Arbitration Association (AAA) lawsuit against Taiwanese sapphire manufacturer Tera Xtal Technology in August. AAA ruled GTAT should return payment totaling $ 24 million for faulty sapphire crystal growth furnaces

August, about the time Apple decided to extricate themselves from the relationship with the GTAT bozos.

 

[mtneer]

Damn why couldn't my job allow this??? lol

If they did, much like the sods at GT, you wouldn't have a job for long!

 

[Casiotone]

We've all been slinging mud at GT, but how in the world did Apple enter an agreement with these clowns without them proving that they could deliver?

That said, Apple clearly had a backup plan to use the standard gorilla glass on the 6/6+ and executed it when GT didn't deliver. Good planning on that front likely saved the year (what happens when you have millions of phones ready to go and no covers?).

I'd be curious to know how "standard" the iPhone 6 gorilla glass is. While I was obsessively browsing Apple patents prior to the iPhone 6 unveiling, I stumbled over a few Apple patents about "ion strengthened glass", which is the term they've used to described the glass used in these new iPhones.

I know that Corning also worked on similar processes and also hold patents about it, but I just wonder if Apple closely worked with them to achieve this and thus how exclusive this type of gorilla glass is. I believe that Apple is first to use ion strengthened gorilla glass on a smartphone.

 

[JAT]

And got burned for half a billion $.

They got a factory out of the deal.

 

[ani4ani]

Last week we were told GT went under because Apple was the big meanie who demanded they pull up their big boy pants. Now we find out they were incompetent. Who'd a thunk?

Likely both are true.

I don't think either party can feel particularly pleased with themselves.