Missing On-Device Icon in New Music App

[fenderbass146]

On 8.4 Beta whenever I download an individual song it will show the on device icon next to the track, however now on the actual final release of 8.4 when I click make available offline for a whole playlist, it downloads the whole playlist but I don't have the on device icon next to the track. This is driving me nuts. I already tried restoring my phone to resolve this issue. Anyone else having these problems.

 

[ahsirg]

Hi. This is fine. The icon should be visible near the playlist album cover when viewing the playlist

It is always visible next to what you saved (song playlist album etc). If a playlist changes it will redownload it's new contents to offline automatically.

 

[lagwagon]

On 8.4 Beta whenever I download an individual song it will show the on device icon next to the track, however now on the actual final release of 8.4 when I click make available offline for a whole playlist, it downloads the whole playlist but I don't have the on device icon next to the track. This is driving me nuts. I already tried restoring my phone to resolve this issue. Anyone else having these problems.

Its by design. I've explained how it works in https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/beta-8-4-1-bug-fixes-and-changes.1900618/page-2 in a couple posts (my second post in the explanation includes images.) I talk mostly about albums but the exact same applies to playlists.

 

[Paco II]

The problem is that Apple's 'layered' approach as you describe it is convoluted and overly complicated. Few will benefit from that approach, and many many more will just be confused by it, which is in fact the case from posts here and offline conversations I've had. The phone icon should simply indicate if the song is available offline, regardless of how it was downloaded. IMO

Its by design. I've explained how it works in https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/beta-8-4-1-bug-fixes-and-changes.1900618/page-2 in a couple posts (my second post in the explanation includes images.) I talk mostly about albums but the exact same applies to playlists.

 

[lagwagon]

The problem is that Apple's 'layered' approach as you describe it is convoluted and overly complicated. Few will benefit from that approach, and many many more will just be confused by it, which is in fact the case from posts here and offline conversations I've had. The phone icon should simply indicate if the song is available offline, regardless of how it was downloaded. IMO

I agree that it can be confusing to a lot in the start (Apple doesn't explain any of this and some other little things (like shuffle all for artist/genre and so on) very well or at all.

But I do think once you know or learn about the little things, the app does work quite well.

As for the icons. I'm merely just pointing out that it's not a bug and how/why it works the way it does. If someone is worried that they might stream something not in their phone and use data. There is the option of turning on "show music available offline". This pretty much makes all icons irrelevant, because all you can see in My Music/Playlists with that on is what's downloaded. (Think of it as the actual phone in your hand as a giant 3d downloaded icon with that turned on )

 

[lagwagon]

New "scenario".

You find and download for offline a playlist off Apple Music. You have some songs in that playlist that were already on your phone and show icons next to the song (probably because you had them synced to your phone prior to turning on iCloud Music Library.) Later you no longer want that playlist, so you tap the ". . ." At the top next to the playlist cover art and select "remove downloads". How else would the app know the difference between what you already had on the phone and what was newly added when you downloaded the playlist. Layered offline icons is how. This way it knows to keep what you had already owned and removes those other songs. (If every song showed the icon it would just remove them all and you would lose what you had synced prior to turning on IML. And be even more upset that it deleted songs you synced directly to the phone beforehand.)

*I'm not trying to convince people what is right or wrong. I'm just trying to point out and hopefully clear the confusion for people of how it works.*

 

[fenderbass146]

IDK I think its terrible. Worked great and correctly in Beta. Say I download my top rated playlist which is about 2500 songs out of my 12,000 song library. (I use iTunes Match) When I am just scrolling through my all my songs, I should be able to see which songs are on my local device. If I individually download the songs it shows the icon, however if I downloaded it via a whole playlist it doesn't show it, It just shows that the playlist is downloaded. (the problem I have with that, it I have found it won't always download the whole playlist when doing large playlists.) There is no consistency. No matter what, if I download a song indiviually or in a playlist it should have the icon next to it showing its on the device.. I get what your saying, but for my situation I really liked how it worked before. Also I never sync with iTunes, I just turn on iTunes match and download the music, however I feel like sometimes the downloads stop and I have no way of seeing which songs were missed. It took me 2 days for it to sync all my music by clicking make this playlist available offline.

 

[lagwagon]

IDK I think its terrible. Worked great and correctly in Beta. Say I download my top rated playlist which is about 2500 songs out of my 12,000 song library. (I use iTunes Match) When I am just scrolling through my all my songs, I should be able to see which songs are on my local device. If I individually download the songs it shows the icon, however if I downloaded it via a whole playlist it doesn't show it, It just shows that the playlist is downloaded. (the problem I have with that, it I have found it won't always download the whole playlist when doing large playlists.) There is no consistency. No matter what, if I download a song indiviually or in a playlist it should have the icon next to it showing its on the device.. I get what your saying, but for my situation I really liked how it worked before. Also I never sync with iTunes, I just turn on iTunes match and download the music, however I feel like sometimes the downloads stop and I have no way of seeing which songs were missed. It took me 2 days for it to sync all my music by clicking make this playlist available offline.

iTunes Match and iCloud Music Library(what Apple Music uses) are while very similar, they are different things.

As for not all songs downloaded or getting stuck. On your phone, go into the iTunes app (purple one) and go to the downloads tab. You should see songs that refused to download in there and you should be able to finish their download from that. (I think just sometimes downloads get a hickup and get stuck.)

 

[Paco II]

I appreciate that you are trying to explain why Apple did this, but I still disagree with the approach. It makes more sense, and is simpler to understand, if all songs are in fact removed from being offline in your example. I genuinely don't think people are thinking this way in regards to offline tracks. It's solving a problem that does not exist, and in fact creating a new one (confusion). The phone icon should have a single meaning, and be shown consistently.

New "scenario".

You find and download for offline a playlist off Apple Music. You have some songs in that playlist that were already on your phone and show icons next to the song (probably because you had them synced to your phone prior to turning on iCloud Music Library.) Later you no longer want that playlist, so you tap the ". . ." At the top next to the playlist cover art and select "remove downloads". How else would the app know the difference between what you already had on the phone and what was newly added when you downloaded the playlist. Layered offline icons is how. This way it knows to keep what you had already owned and removes those other songs. (If every song showed the icon it would just remove them all and you would lose what you had synced prior to turning on IML. And be even more upset that it deleted songs you synced directly to the phone beforehand.)

*I'm not trying to convince people what is right or wrong. I'm just trying to point out and hopefully clear the confusion for people of how it works.*

 

[Paco II]

Thank you for reminding me of another annoyance: downloads being in the iTunes app. Purchase downloads should be in that app, but the Music app should have its own downloads tab. Why would I expect to go to the iTunes store app to check my Apple Music, or iTunes Match, downloads?! Apple really needs to take a step back and rethink these two apps better.

iTunes Match and iCloud Music Library(what Apple Music uses) are while very similar, they are different things.

As for not all songs downloaded or getting stuck. On your phone, go into the iTunes app (purple one) and go to the downloads tab. You should see songs that refused to download in there and you should be able to finish their download from that. (I think just sometimes downloads get a hickup and get stuck.)

 

[lagwagon]

I appreciate that you are trying to explain why Apple did this, but I still disagree with the approach. It makes more sense, and is simpler to understand, if all songs are in fact removed from being offline in your example. I genuinely don't think people are thinking this way in regards to offline tracks. It's solving a problem that does not exist, and in fact creating a new one (confusion). The phone icon should have a single meaning, and be shown consistently.

It wouldn't be simpler to just remove them all in the example though. I have 7700+ songs that were already on my phone prior to AM (artists and full albums for those artists.) Many people do the same. If it removed all in the playlist (like you're suggesting) then you would end up with full albums not being so full anymore and wondering why songs went missing from your albums you've purchased or ripped from CD. This would create way more complaints of songs going missing vs just having to look at two spots (top right corner of album/playlist art or right side of songs) for an icon. Without the two spots for the downloaded icon, the app does not know what to keep and what to discard. The app would have to download duplicates of those songs you already had to ensure your own stuff was safe if it just put icons on everything to know the difference. (and take up more space than necessary)

Again though turning on "show music available offline" solves the need to see any icon anyways since you only see what IS downloaded.

 

[Paco II]

The songs would not be gone, just not available offline anymore. If someone chooses to remove a playlist from being offline, I think the average person understands what that means, and that it isn't just related to the playlist. When they go to play the album and notice a song is no longer available offline, they'll realize it is because it was in the playlist they removed from being offline. I think it is far more likely they will understand that, versus people understanding how the phone icon currently works

It wouldn't be simpler to just remove them all in the example though. I have 7700+ songs that were already on my phone prior to AM (artists and full albums for those artists.) Many people do the same. If it removed all in the playlist (like you're suggesting) then you would end up with full albums not being so full anymore and wondering why songs went missing from your albums you've purchased or ripped from CD. This would create way more complaints of songs going missing vs just having to look at two spots (top right corner of album/playlist art or right side of songs) for an icon. Without the two spots for the downloaded icon, the app does not know what to keep and what to discard. The app would have to download duplicates of those songs you already had to ensure your own stuff was safe if it just put icons on everything to know the difference. (and take up more space than necessary)

Again though turning on "show music available offline" solves the need to see any icon anyways since you only see what IS downloaded.

 

[lagwagon]

The songs would not be gone, just not available offline anymore. If someone chooses to remove a playlist from being offline, I think the average person understands what that means, and that it isn't just related to the playlist. When they go to play the album and notice a song is no longer available offline, they'll realize it is because it was in the playlist they removed from being offline. I think it is far more likely they will understand that, versus people understanding how the phone icon currently works

They would be gone if show music available offline was turned on

Part of the benefit to AM is you can blend your own personal library to AM's. Why would I want to make parts of my own library no longer offline when removing an Apple Music playlist because it contained anything already in my library. It's my library and was synced to my phone for the purpose of always having it offline.

Anyhoo, it is what it is. This is what Apple figured to be the safest/best approach to it. To me it makes perfect sense and I know people use things differently and it may not to them.

Cheers.

 

[Paco II]

It's because Apple doesn't even want you to think about a difference between your library and Apple Music. They've gone with a total integration approach. The typical user is not likely to be thinking 'is this song from my library or Apple Music'.
Agree that it is what it is. Cheers!

They would be gone if show music available offline was turned on

Part of the benefit to AM is you can blend your own personal library to AM's. Why would I want to make parts of my own library no longer offline when removing an Apple Music playlist because it contained anything already in my library. It's my library and was synced to my phone for the purpose of always having it offline.

Anyhoo, it is what it is. This is what Apple figured to be the safest/best approach to it. To me it makes perfect sense and I know people use things differently and it may not to them.

Cheers.

 

[fenderbass146]

iTunes Match and iCloud Music Library(what Apple Music uses) are while very similar, they are different things.

As for not all songs downloaded or getting stuck. On your phone, go into the iTunes app (purple one) and go to the downloads tab. You should see songs that refused to download in there and you should be able to finish their download from that. (I think just sometimes downloads get a hickup and get stuck.)

Actually they are not different. They just changed the name as far as I am aware. If it's different tell me the difference because I don't see any.

 

[lagwagon]

Actually they are not different. They just changed the name as far as I am aware. If it's different tell me the difference because I don't see any.

They are two independent services.

https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT204962

 

[fenderbass146]

They are two independent services.

https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT204962

Seems confusing, for the most part they are the same thing. Say you aren't using Apple Music, you still have iCloud Music Library as on option to turn on, on your phone, as the iTunes match option is no longer there. iCloud Music replaced it. However if you are using your Apple Music it's essentially just iTunes Match and you can add in the songs you want from Apple Music. Gosh Apples services are getting so convoluted.

 

[fenderbass146]

Things are getting weirder. Now all my songs that I downloaded via playlist magically have the on device icon next to the track. Just how it's suppose to be.. Wish I could understand why it's working now

 

[fenderbass146]

The blue photo shows the playlist with all the music having the icon (when I first downloaded them, it didn't have the icon.) the second one shows an album that contains a few of the songs in a playlist. Just the songs in the playlist have the on device icon. This is exactly how it should be. I'm just glad it's working now.

 

[Paco II]

ICloud Music Library is the platform that both Apple Music and iTunes Match depend upon. Two separate products that both use IML. Their functionality is similar, making your music available in the cloud, but iTunes Match will allow you to download DRM free versions of your matched/uploaded songs, while Apple Music on its own only allows downloading of Apple Music offline songs, whether they are your matched songs or other songs from Apple Music. ITunes match can be used on its own, without Apple Music, or it can be used along side it. When used along side Apple Music, your matched tracks will be downloaded DRM free while all other songs will be Apple Music offline tracks. Hope that helps.

Seems confusing, for the most part they are the same thing. Say you aren't using Apple Music, you still have iCloud Music Library as on option to turn on, on your phone, as the iTunes match option is no longer there. iCloud Music replaced it. However if you are using your Apple Music it's essentially just iTunes Match and you can add in the songs you want from Apple Music. Gosh Apples services are getting so convoluted.