No, I basically never used it because it was a pointless waste of time. I just ended up spending so much time switching spaces that it wasn't worth it in the first place. That, and it doesn't have a point to begin with, and encourages making a big mess of windows, and leaving stuff open that shouldn't be, guzzling up ram in the process.
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Mission Control Replacement?
- Thread starter strausd
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No, I basically never used it because it was a pointless waste of time. I just ended up spending so much time switching spaces that it wasn't worth it in the first place. That, and it doesn't have a point to begin with, and encourages making a big mess of windows, and leaving stuff open that shouldn't be, guzzling up ram in the process.
It's actually a huge time saver when you understand how it works. I guess some people have trouble grasping the concept and aren't able to implement it into their workflow. It has an extremely obvious purpose, but once again, I guess it's the more advanced users that really understand it well enough to make use of it. And when you do finally understand it, Spaces only better organizes your applications.
And I take it you don't have a very complex workflow that requires many applications open at once. My standard workflow can involve as much as Maya open in 1 space with at least 5 windows (Viewport, Outliner, Hypershade, UV texture editor, and render view), Photoshop with multiple images open for creating and editing my textures, AE for compositing or initial sequence render, Premiere for putting the final video together when needed, and Soundbooth for audio. Each of these applications will also involve at least 2 finder windows each for quick access to those buried directories. So having the main application fill my main monitor and the the finder windows filling the second monitor is one space. Obviously I can end up with 5 full spaces extremely quickly. When I have an application laid out with the finder windows for those apps, having this as makes everything SO much quicker. I can easily switch from Maya to Photoshop for editing my textures by just doing command-down arrow. And then I leave my perfectly set up 5 window application to another perfectly set up 3 window space. Now by using Spaces it takes a single keystroke to leave all those windows and bring all the new ones up. This is much quicker than using Exposé to pull up whatever Photoshop windows I need and finder windows. Do you see where this would be beneficial? If not then I am sorry, but you need help.
So just out of curiosity, what is your average workflow like?
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Spaces was one of my favorite features of Leopard when I switched in '08.
As some have said though, virtual desktops *are* a bit on the intermediate/advanced side. It was my primary way of getting around the OS. I assign the Spaces/Mission Control shortcut (F8) to my scroll wheel button, and hit that to quickly get in and out of the multiple desktops.
In Lion, I'm happy to say, I can still get around nearly as fast using the new, crappy Spaces - I create 8 or 9 desktops, assign my apps through the Dock, and thanks to the Resume feature in Lion, everything comes back exactly the way I left it - previously created desktops do NOT go away unless you manually delete them.
One shortcut I found to the problem of not being able to freely move apps from one space to another:
Hold down Option and click into the desktop that has the app you want to move. It will stay in Mission Control but move to the new space so you can move the app. (Without having to go into the new space, then reopen MC...)
Still, I MUCH prefer the grid layout of the Leopard/SL Spaces, and Dock Exposé (I never really used the regular Exposé - that's what Spaces was for.)
If someone wants to sell a 3rd party replacement for Spaces, I'll buy it - c'mon devs!
As some have said though, virtual desktops *are* a bit on the intermediate/advanced side. It was my primary way of getting around the OS. I assign the Spaces/Mission Control shortcut (F8) to my scroll wheel button, and hit that to quickly get in and out of the multiple desktops.
In Lion, I'm happy to say, I can still get around nearly as fast using the new, crappy Spaces - I create 8 or 9 desktops, assign my apps through the Dock, and thanks to the Resume feature in Lion, everything comes back exactly the way I left it - previously created desktops do NOT go away unless you manually delete them.
One shortcut I found to the problem of not being able to freely move apps from one space to another:
Hold down Option and click into the desktop that has the app you want to move. It will stay in Mission Control but move to the new space so you can move the app. (Without having to go into the new space, then reopen MC...)
Still, I MUCH prefer the grid layout of the Leopard/SL Spaces, and Dock Exposé (I never really used the regular Exposé - that's what Spaces was for.)
If someone wants to sell a 3rd party replacement for Spaces, I'll buy it - c'mon devs!
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I agree 100% strausd. Your opening post said it all.
If we shout loud enough maybe they will hear us. The only scary thing is some users couldn't find or get their head around spaces. The Pro users will have to all sing together otherwise the "I'm happy with anything pretty with an apple logo on it" may allow this drop in features to go un-noticed.
all together now Submit Feedback to apple
If we shout loud enough maybe they will hear us. The only scary thing is some users couldn't find or get their head around spaces. The Pro users will have to all sing together otherwise the "I'm happy with anything pretty with an apple logo on it" may allow this drop in features to go un-noticed.
all together now Submit Feedback to apple
That's one (arrogant) way to look at it.
As previously mentioned, everyone has their own preferences and way of working with their Mac. There's no need to put down others for differing with your own.
I agree.
I'd it depends on many factors...
--How much screen real estate do you have
--How good is your eye sight
--How many applications do you typically have open
--How many logical groups of applications do you have open
I figured I'd love spaces, since I was a fan of virtual desktops on Linux. But, to me, Expose' removed my need/desire for virtual desktops.
For me, the whole reason for virtual desktops in the first place was to make up for the completely retarded method of managing windows in Windows and Linux (well, and everything). More a lack of management than stupid management...
Anyway, it didn't take too many open windows before managing them yourself was a nightmare. Enter virtual desktops. Now I know that app X is in desktop y and all of a sudden things are tolerable. Tolerable not good.
Then I try a mac out on a whim and basically /mindblown with Expose'. Being able to kick it off with a hot corner (no gestures at the time) made it that much more awesome. I forgot completely about virtual desktops. Expose' was one of those "why isn't everyone doing this???" feature for me.
Then when "spaces" came out, I figured I'd give it a shot. I mean, more control can't be worse I figured. But, it turns out I just didn't care for it. My problem was that a single app could fall into multiple groups and thus multiple spaces... (e.g. API docs in one browser window and my screwing around websites in another) but I didn't like how that was handled. It turned alt-tab in to a crapshoot once you split an app across spaces. So I found myself using different browsers for different purposes... which just seemed silly. What would have made spaces useable for my purposes... was if I was running multiple instances of a particular app. i.e. I could run Safari once for my news and what not and another instance of Safari (that would show up separately in alt-tab) for my API use. But that wouldn't be ideal for many people especially since you wouldn't be able to tell on alt-tab which Safari is which. (Though, I'd be able to since I subconsciously keep track of what I had in focus last and that's how alt-tab sorts things.)
So I just went back to straight Expose'. It's always worked great for me anyhow. My use of spaces was really just a solution looking for a problem.
Anyway, as I'm sure someone else has pointed out... mission control wouldn't be so horrible if it weren't for the app grouping... That actually really annoys me. In the same way that Windows people said they had something like Expose' and it turned out it stacked all the windows on top of each other making it an exercise in uselessness. And the app grouping wouldn't be so horrible if they would take the whole three finger upswipe a step further... instead of the lame barely separating the app's windows, if it would take me into "application's windows" expose'... and I could swipe back down to re-enter mission control... I'd be mostly fine with things as they are.
Granted, grid style spaces makes way more sense if you're actually using spaces... but for me it's not much of an issue as I tend to not really use spaces for the reason mentioned above.
Anyway, I preferred the old style of doing things and wish they'd leave that available even if it's not the default setting. Mission control was a step backward for me.
That's one (arrogant) way to look at it.
As previously mentioned, everyone has their own preferences and way of working with their Mac. There's no need to put down others for differing with your own.
I think its just a knee jerk reaction. strausd is trying to get support for the loss of a major feature of OSX that while not used by many home users has become essential to many pro users. Pro users are on there machines 8 hrs a day so it car irk when trying to garner support for a feature that makes work easier and someone says, "I never used it anyway."
Its rather like turning up to a save the whale march with a banner that says I don't need whales.
That's one (arrogant) way to look at it.
As previously mentioned, everyone has their own preferences and way of working with their Mac. There's no need to put down others for differing with your own.
I wasn't trying to be arrogant and I think that just quoting that part really takes away from the context of it.
Everyone I talk to who doesn't/didn't use spaces said it was because they didn't really understand it, that's a fact. Another fact is that Mac OS X is now much more of a consumer OS than ever before, so they are catering to that market. And I would definitely say that my workflow is on the advanced side, especially since a majority of Mac users are the average consumer. Look back at my workflow. Having all those windows and applications open in one single space is overwhelming to the average user. Being able to organize it all so easily for better productivity makes so much sense to me, what about you?
Spaces was a great feature, go read my original post for more details on what made it so great. It would not make sense for anyone to say that those things do not speed up ones workflow of general cursor movement or are slower than Mission Control. It is a fact that those features are much more efficient than anything offered in Lion.
And I agree, everyone has their own way of working on their computer. But I would love for you to explain to me something that is faster than the combination of Spaces and Exposé when used to their full potential.
And honestly, when someone says that spaces is a pointless waste of time, that is just proof that they do not understand it. I'm not trying to diss anybody, but if somebody understood a topic extremely well that a majority of people just don't get, then I would say that person is a bit more advanced in that topic, wouldn't you?
@eeyoredragon
I see how Spaces can be annoying when using apps like Safari with multiple windows spread out over multiple spaces. However, when using spaces to better organize all the pro apps that I used, it became essential for speeding up my work. And MC is an obvious step backwards for those who used the far superior Exposé and Spaces. The new spaces is way to linear making it much more difficult to navigate between spaces, not to mention the awful animation.
But anyways, using pro apps with many windows of it grouped into individual spaces for each app is the way to go. It provides for much more efficient work and better organization. Unfortunately, not many users could really understand it.
@whitedragon101
They were major features, thank you! Many people I have talked to considered them minor. To me, that is just showing they did not know how to use them.
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Well, perhaps he didn't mean it that way but his comment sure read as "Those who don't use Spaces just aren't smart enough to understand it."
By your criteria, I'm a "pro user". However, I never found much use for Spaces. I'm with Eeyoredragon on that one. Exposé is the feature I have always relied on.
It's only a matter of personal preference.
Well there you go again with the haughtiness. You never talked to me. I happen to understand Spaces completely. I was familiar with them in Linux long before they came to OS X. That's a fact.
You love Spaces as they were, more power to you. I respect that. It sped up YOUR workflow. Mine is, and always has been just fine without using them.
Not to mention the fact that Spaces still exist, they're just called "Desktops" now. Your whole complaint seems to be with the removal of the grid formation.
You could always go back to Snow Leopard, or wait for the inevitable third party app/hack that will restore this ability.
This guy has some good suggestions. Using Spaces on OS X Lion.
I never said I talked to you about this. And Spaces sped up MANY peoples workflows. Pretty much everyone who understood it and used it. It is so much more efficient than anything out there. Like I said in my last post which you still haven't responded to, "I would love for you to explain to me something that is faster than the combination of Spaces and Exposé when used to their full potential." And I am curious as to what your workflow is.
Spaces no longer exists. And ow can you say my whole complaint is about the grid layout? Did you not even read the first post on this thread? If you did read it, you would see all the functionality that Apple took out of Spaces when they made it Mission Control. Notice how I said "they made it Mission Control," meaning Spaces is no longer in existence. Seriously, go read the first post, you might learn something
I am running SL on my MP and Lion on my MBP. The problem is that iCloud will be Lion only and I'd prefer to not rely on 3rd party software for functionality that should have been included in the OS from the start. Also, there is a good chance that it will be a bit more buggy compared to the Spaces & Exposé combo in SL.
And that link is just basic functionality of virtual desktops in Mission Control. Really, go read the first post, because that link has nothing to do with the reason I started this thread.
EDIT: I just noticed you're a Canon man, I just gained some respect for you
F10 is no longer application windows by default, that is now Ctrl+down arrow and Mission Control is Ctrl+up arrow not F9.
but I think Mission Control is much better then the separate Spaces and Exposé. I just wish Apple would add the ability to rearrange our "spaces" in Mission Control.
Do you miss being able to see all your windows at once? What about not having windows overlap others so you can actually see what they are? Or how about being able to drag any window from any space into any other space? With Mission Control you can do none of this. All of which would provide for a more efficient work flow.
I tend to have each app on it's own space and if an app has multiple windows, there is app exposé for that. I have a fairly big external monitor for my MBP so I can see which apps are on which spaces.
I also have my (G19) keyboard setup with dedicated keys for each space that I use so I can go from space 1 to space 5 or from space 2 to space 8 directly if I wanted to.
I really like being able to create and remove spaces at will without having to go into the system preferences.
If I could rearrange the spaces in Mission Control, I'd be set.
I just would like to suggest some strategies to speed up your workflow with App Exposé and Mission Control:
If you App Exposé, let's say, Safari and have several other programs running, you can App Exposé through them just iterating Alt-Tab.
In Mission Control, it is true that on a 13'' Macbook it can be hard to see which windows are active in the minimized space. You can again cycle between the spaces without clicking: you just have to swipe left and right to cycle between the desktops using 3 fingers. Once you're on your chosen desktop, point on any of the windows of any application and press Space: a large preview will be shown (the same happened in Spaces for Snow Leopard).
Finally if you want to move all the windows of an app to another Desktop, click on the application icon shown by Mission Control and drag it to the chosen desktop.
The main critic one could point to Mission Control and all this workflow is that it is linear, i.e. you have to cycle a list of elements. Nevertheless, that linearity makes things more organised and clean, at least in my case.
If you App Exposé, let's say, Safari and have several other programs running, you can App Exposé through them just iterating Alt-Tab.
In Mission Control, it is true that on a 13'' Macbook it can be hard to see which windows are active in the minimized space. You can again cycle between the spaces without clicking: you just have to swipe left and right to cycle between the desktops using 3 fingers. Once you're on your chosen desktop, point on any of the windows of any application and press Space: a large preview will be shown (the same happened in Spaces for Snow Leopard).
Finally if you want to move all the windows of an app to another Desktop, click on the application icon shown by Mission Control and drag it to the chosen desktop.
The main critic one could point to Mission Control and all this workflow is that it is linear, i.e. you have to cycle a list of elements. Nevertheless, that linearity makes things more organised and clean, at least in my case.
You can also do so by simply clicking on the app of choice in the dock once you've entered App Exposé. It will switch that app without leaving App Exposé. No keyboard required.
Spaces no longer exists. And ow can you say my whole complaint is about the grid layout? Did you not even read the first post on this thread? If you did read it, you would see all the functionality that Apple took out of Spaces when they made it Mission Control. Notice how I said "they made it Mission Control," meaning Spaces is no longer in existence. Seriously, go read the first post, you might learn something
I'm not going to belabor this. Now we're just bantering semantics. Spaces are virtual desktops and they most certainly do still exist, albeit under a different name and with altered functionality.
I've read all of your posts thus far.
EDIT: I just noticed you're a Canon man, I just gained some respect for you
Well, we can agree on that at least.
I just hate this Mission Control. The damn thing has completely messed up the way I use my machine and gets in the way all the time.
I used spaces to put different tasks on different desktops. So, work for one client was in one window, other clients in others; iTunes in another; email & calendar in another; remote desktop in another; browsing in a couple of windows (personal browsing; work browsing)...
This mission control has completely thrown this out for a mess of linear windows that need so much more effort to manage; horrible and inefficient. It's not a matter of getting used to something new, it's getting used to something that's far worse than we had.
What's worse is that Apple won't listen and certainly won't accept their mistakes.
Now I've got to go off and find a third-party solution to this mess that Apple's left us in.
This and a load of other issues (system is definitely slower, longer to logon, mail problems, bluetooth problems, permissions, file dates, not to mention fugly iCal & Address, inconsistent mouse scrolling...) means I really, really regret upgrading.
I used spaces to put different tasks on different desktops. So, work for one client was in one window, other clients in others; iTunes in another; email & calendar in another; remote desktop in another; browsing in a couple of windows (personal browsing; work browsing)...
This mission control has completely thrown this out for a mess of linear windows that need so much more effort to manage; horrible and inefficient. It's not a matter of getting used to something new, it's getting used to something that's far worse than we had.
What's worse is that Apple won't listen and certainly won't accept their mistakes.
Now I've got to go off and find a third-party solution to this mess that Apple's left us in.
This and a load of other issues (system is definitely slower, longer to logon, mail problems, bluetooth problems, permissions, file dates, not to mention fugly iCal & Address, inconsistent mouse scrolling...) means I really, really regret upgrading.
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Everything you described can be easily done with Mission Control. You're overreacting.
This you can do...
I Like mission control and didn't like spaces I don't necessarly want to blend my desk tops I like one for each thing I'm doing without inter-mingling
I'm frustrated as I can't just move windows between spaces - as I used to. Now I have to focus on that space; restart Mission Control; grab the application window and put it into the space I want. Before I could use Exposé and Spaces and simply drag & drop with impunity.
This is particularly important when you need to re-organise your windows to move current tasks closer.
Now it's one window only. Click click click. Another window. Scroll animate slide. Click click click.
Not to mention the one-dimensional aspect of Mission Control. I really liked having 9 spaces in use - particularly when running several VMs concurrently (4 of them for IE6, IE7, IE8 and IE9!). Now the keyboard shortcut is to scroll through 7 different spaces to get to my email. OK, I can simply <cmd><tab>; but getting back is a pain.
Then there's launchpad. Why??? I've no problems with <cmd><space> and typing the first couple of letters of the application into Spotlight. I suppose Apple will get rid of this soon in favour of the left-hand-most window in the Mission Control...
No you can't.
You can *only* move the application windows from the currently focussed space to another.
With Spaces you could move any application window from any space to any other space.
This is less functionality.
Your right, I tried to move from an out of focus to an out of focus and it doesn't work..I never did that with 10.6 either so I don't know if it did or didn't but I could see where the ability to do that would be handy..
I think trying to convince people who don't use spaces why it was good, may be bashing your head against a wall.
For something productive if you love spaces and would like a tick box to use it instead of mission control, then click below. They could call it classic view or something.
Or Apple may at least rethink mission control so you can:
- see everything spread out on all your desktops at once
- drag windows directly between them
Submit Feedback to Apple
For something productive if you love spaces and would like a tick box to use it instead of mission control, then click below. They could call it classic view or something.
Or Apple may at least rethink mission control so you can:
- see everything spread out on all your desktops at once
- drag windows directly between them
Submit Feedback to Apple
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Why does no one like Mission control?! I think it's great... I don't like how Apple made expose now only for a single app at a time, but the spaces implementation is much better. Instead of complaining how Mission Control "decreases your workflow", how about you shut up about it, get used to it because it's here to stay, and adjust your "workflow".