Mitt Romney to Announce Vice Presidential Pick via iPhone App; Obama Campaign Releases New App

[brentmore]

Says who? Ford did not even take bailout money. GM has went back to the same practices they were doing before they needed a bailout, they learned nothing and will be in the same spot in a few years.

They should have went through bankruptcy in order to restructure in a way that would encourage growth.

I love how you point out the auto industry and look the other way when it comes to a multitude of other issues. That is the problem with you democrats and republicans.

As any smart executive knows, his or her industry doesn't operate in a bubble. Ford was well aware of this and, in fact, lobbied for the bailout to be passed. Why? Because if GM failed... it would affect Ford.

Ford also requested in increase in its credit line. Why? Because in case anything happened, they'd have a safety net.

http://archives.financialservices.house.gov/hearing110/ford-_final_written_testimony.pdf

Yes, Ford didn't receive any money under TARPs provision... but let's take the blinders off for a second and take a look at other loans and subsidies.

https://lpo.energy.gov/?projects=ford-motor-company

 

[NY Guitarist]

Who said the roads "build great businesses"? If you have a business you have infrastructure in place that helps your business operate.

Yes, and while those roads benefit us all, it's still up to the individual to take a risk and shed blood and tears to build a business. To take credit from that individual and divide it among the collective is not only blatantly unfair, but completely un-American.

My understanding is that Obama's speech is being edited in order to be intentionally taken out of context.

Here is the part leading to the words being taken out of context, "If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive."

To my understanding Obama never said anything to discredit the risks and effort of the business owner.


What is your take on the rest of my post?

The roads are already there thanks to the government. If you think businesses have not benefitted by government created infrastructure I suggest taking a look at the how the interstate highway system that President Eisenhower championed changed the economic landscape.

Bridges, tunnels, internet? How about the U.S. transcontinental railroad?

Aren't those examples of how infrastructure benefits all, including business?

 

[dustinsc]

Finally, if Obama doesn't have a clue how the economy works, how do you explain this well-known graph?

The business cycle. (If you don't what I mean, take an econ class)

 

[NY Guitarist]

The business cycle. (If you don't what I mean, take an econ class)

So what you are saying is that Obama gets blamed for jobs, but not credited for jobs?

The business cycle only works in one direction politically?

 

[3282868]

Yes, and while those roads benefit us all, it's still up to the individual to take a risk and shed blood and tears to build a business. To take credit from that individual and divide it among the collective is not only blatantly unfair, but completely un-American.

My understanding is that Obama's speech is being edited in order to be intentionally taken out of context.

Here is the part leading to the words being taken out of context, "If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive."

Excellent points NY Guitarist. The speech you're referencing was based around a famous quote by Elizabeth Warren:

“There is nobody in this country who got rich on their own. Nobody. You built a factory out there - good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory... Now look. You built a factory and it turned into something terrific or a great idea - God bless! Keep a hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.”

Don't for a second believe that what she states has no validity. Corporations absolutely utilize the social structure we, as tax payers, support for them to succeed. Without these foundations in place, the playing field would be even more of a mess. It is amusing reading some arguments against this very basic principle.

 

[NY Guitarist]

Excellent points NY Guitarist. The speech you're referencing was based around a famous quote by Elizabeth Warren:



Don't for a second believe that what she states has no validity. Business absolutely use the social structure we, as tax payers, support for them to succeed. Without these in foundations in place, the playing field would be even more of a mess. It is amusing reading some arguments against this very basic principle.

Thanks. I'm going to research this more. I think it's extremely important that we all take information that is available, think for ourselves, and make our decisions based on that information.

To see information being distorted so heavily should disturb anyone who believes in a free society.

Lately I often get the sense that the political division has been decided FOR the citizenry, and not BY the citizenry. If so, who stands to gain from that? And why?

 

[MacDav]

No, I'm serious. Industrial Organizational Psychology

however, my real focus is in Clinical Psych, which pays nil, so many of "us" work in I/O (for the dark side) to support our private practices. Yes yes, we're sell outs.

Well, you're a good man. I wish you the best. Yes we all must make compromises to survive sometimes. I wouldn't call you a sellout, just a pragmatist.

 

[Thomas Veil]

The business cycle. (If you don't what I mean, take an econ class)

That's not what Romney's saying. He's saying obstructionist House Republicans Obama is keeping the economy from expanding.

 

[CaptMurdock]

Government keeps getting bigger and bigger under Obama and another term won't change that.

Wrong.

 

[3282868]

Thanks. I'm going to research this more. I think it's extremely important that we all take information that is available, think for ourselves, and make our decisions based on that information.

To see information being distorted so heavily should disturb anyone who believes in a free society.

Lately I often get the sense that the political division has been decided FOR the citizenry, and not BY the citizenry. If so, who stands to gain from that? And why?

Exactly. There has been a divide in the country that has been instigated by the corporate media and both parties through political rhetoric that has made us so angry towards each other over perceived party lines that we're too busy arguing over silly things instead of working WITH each other. I know we all want the same things, a better country, a better economy, a better environment. We may disagree on how to achieve them, but what happened to listening, civil discourse, mutual respect? Why is it "liberal" this and "conservative" that? We've become children fighting in the sandbox while both parties make deals with lobbyists, corporations, selling us out for a larger piece of the "American Pie".

In the end, they're laughing at us while we continue to fight each other. A divided nation is a conquered one, and in the words of Dan Rather, "I have never seen a nation more divided since the Vietnam War, and this is worse".

Read "Broken Government" by ex Nixon legal aid John Dean. It's a great perspective on how we have fallen from grace; from a country in the mid 20th century in which politicians/congressmen would stay in D.C. and help each other. Republicans would help newly appointed Democrats draft bills, even if they disagree with them, and vice versa. They stayed in D.C. instead of rushing back to their home states. They didn't play into the rhetoric that so much so, and they didn't filibuster important bills just to tow their party lines (at least not as much as presently speaking). We've let the system get out of hand, we've let them play with our emotions, and it seems we're too far gone to make the changes in each other we need to be a better nation. Sad days. Just read some of the vitriol on this thread!

 

[dscuber9000]

It's amazing how many completely false statements - or at best extreme stretches - are being thrown around. I understand how people can be uninformed, but I don't get how people can be uninformed and passionate at the same time.

 

[3282868]

Those democratic presidents are great!

Outspent Bush in his first two years than Bush did in 8
Socialist healthcare system
Clinton getting blown in his office and lies about it
Hillary traveling the world accomplishing nothing but being the first secretary of state to travel a lot
Michelle spending millions of dollars in tax money to go shopping in London
Taxing small business
The economy has gone nowhere in 4 years

Wrong. Obama has spent LESS than Bush, Reagan and Clinton:

An Obama Spending Spree? Hardly (CHART)

A dominant theme of the national political discourse has been the crushing spending spree the U.S. has ostensibly embarked on during the Obama presidency. That argument, ignited by Republicans and picked up by many elite opinion makers, has infused the national dialogue and shaped the public debate in nearly every major budget battle of the last thee years.

But the numbers tell a different story.

The fact that the national debt has risen from $10.6 trillion to $15.6 trillion under Obama’s watch makes for easy partisan attacks. But the vast bulk of the increase was caused by a combination of revenue losses due to the 2008-09 economic downturn as well as Bush-era tax cuts and automatic increases in safety-net spending that were already written into law.

Obama’s policies, including the much-criticized stimulus package, have caused the slowest increase in federal spending of any president in almost 60 years, according to data compiled by the financial news service MarketWatch.

The chart shows that Presidents Reagan, both Bushes, and to a lesser extent Clinton, grew federal spending at a far quicker pace than Obama. Part of the reason for the slow growth is that Obama — unlike his Republican and Democratic predecessors — signed a law in February 2010 necessitating that new spending laws are paid for. In addition, Obama last year signed into law over $2 trillion in debt-reduction over the next decade.

EDIT: As there has been contention over the validity of Nutting's work, it has been verified as correct by many third party/unaffiliated analysts. Example:

Viral Facebook post says Barack Obama has lowest spending record of any recent president

Our ruling

The Facebook post says Mitt Romney is wrong to claim that spending under Obama has "accelerated at a pace without precedent in recent history," because it's actually risen "slower than at any time in nearly 60 years."

Obama has indeed presided over the slowest growth in spending of any president using raw dollars, and it was the second-slowest if you adjust for inflation. The math simultaneously backs up Nutting’s calculations and demolishes Romney’s contention. The only significant shortcoming of the graphic is that it fails to note that some of the restraint in spending was fueled by demands from congressional Republicans. On balance, we rate the claim Mostly True.

 

[fox10078]

The Obama supporters seem to be the only ones posting links and citing sources.

Pick it up team Romney

 

[AppleDroid]

This is why I love political discourse from people who don't know what they're talking about.

During the Clinton years all I heard was "It's because Regan set it up to succeed" but when Obama inherits the most disastrous economy in American history since the Great Depression you spout, "Stop looking to the previous (Republican) president and focus on how this one is doing a terrible job!"

It's like setting your car on fire, plowing it through a neighbor's brick exterior into their living room then chastising the owners for not being able to put the fire out quick or efficiently enough.

Obama is a disaster. Anyone who can't see this needs to open his eyes and look around. In 3.5 years, unemployment has gone nowhere. The housing market has gone nowhere. The only thing that's gone up is the national debt and gas prices. How much time does the guy get to make an impact? A CEO with a record like this wouldn't have lasted 3.5 years. Oh wait, I forgot about Ballmer...



Won't be long before this thread is shut down...

----------

The business cycle. (If you don't what I mean, take an econ class)

Oh of course. I'm sure you tell yourself that the Bush disaster that was his 2-term fiasco was really Clinton's fault right? It's never, ever a conservatives doing.

 

[MacSince1990]

Obama, "Hey Steve Jobs, you didn't build that!"


Time for Obama to go bye bye!

Almost too dumb to respond to. But no, Jobs didn't do it on his own... he did it by lying and cheating his way into a little money (paying Woz ~1/10th of what the man earned on one project for example that he'd done entirely himself, selling illegal phones... etc).

And for the record, genius, Jobs was a liberal.

I still can't believe the media are touting this "pissing contest" as so close. In reality it's not a close race at all. It's just the propaganda machine that is heating things up for the plebs.

Well thank God we've got someone who's got unfettered access to unadulterated polls before they get filtered by the mainstream media. Someone who doesn't go by empirical evidence based solely upon his own narrow experiences and observations, but who has thoroughly polled a large portion of voters.

Wait...

All human achievement is due to the many, not to the one. You must relinquish the individual for the common good. Embrace the Collective, comrades.

Forward!

Image

Not that I don't expect Straw Men from republicans, but isn't this one a bit flimsy even by Repug standards?

At its core, communism isn't an evil idea. It just doesn't happen to work well in practice. You're one of those geniuses that hates government and then gets enraged if someone suggests the democrats want to do away with Medicaid, aren't you? *sigh*

 

[LagunaSol]

During the Clinton years all I heard was "It's because Regan set it up to succeed" but when Obama inherits the most disastrous economy in American history since the Great Depression you spout, "Stop looking to the previous (Republican) president and focus on how this one is doing a terrible job!"

So the implication is Obama will never be responsible for anything because he inherited all our woes?

Pull up your big boy pants, Obama (and Obama supporters). Presidents could point the finger behind them all the way back to George Washington if they wanted. But that's not what leaders do. Leaders take on problems and solve them, regardless of where they come from. They don't sit around and whine about the previous guy in charge. You think a basketball coach is going to last very long if all he can do is point at the failures of years past? Is this what we could expect from a second Obama term? More griping and finger-pointing? I'm afraid that's what we'd see. Frankly, I don't aim to find out.

Remember Truman and "The Buck Stops Here?" Own it and quit throwing blame around. Solve the problems or get out of the way and let someone else try.

----------

And for the record, genius, Jobs was a liberal.

Jobs is spinning in his grave over Obama's "You didn't build that!" nonsense.

At its core, communism isn't an evil idea.

Unfortunately, Obama agrees with you.

You're one of those geniuses that hates government and then gets enraged if someone suggests the democrats want to do away with Medicaid, aren't you? *sigh*

Nice try, but no.

 

[samiwas]

Good God...who opened the door to the loony bin? Where did the inordinate number of non-fact-based talking-point spewers crawl out from??

I haven't said this in a while, and today, for many reasons, I feel I need to repeat it: I hate everybody.

 

[Michael Scrip]

It's cute how you think Mitt made this mistake himself.

It's also cute how people think the President is directly responsible for everything that happens in their town.

Nobody in your town is hiring? Blame a guy in Washington DC.

 

[CaptMurdock]

So the implication is Obama will never be responsible for anything because he inherited all our woes?

Pull up your big boy pants, Obama (and Obama supporters). Presidents could point the finger behind them all the way back to George Washington if they wanted. But that's not what leaders do. Leaders take on problems and solve them, regardless of where they come from. They don't sit around and whine about the previous guy in charge. You think a basketball coach is going to last very long if all he can do is point at the failures of years past? Is this what we could expect from a second Obama term? More griping and finger-pointing? I'm afraid that's what we'd see. Frankly, I don't aim to find out.

Remember Truman and "The Buck Stops Here?" Own it and quit throwing blame around. Solve the problems or get out of the way and let someone else try.

Okay. Fair enough. You think President Obama needs to do something that he has yet to do.

What, exactly, would that be? And please, don't waste my time with generalities and Faux News talking points. Be specific. What can the president do to fix the economy within the scope of the enumerated powers of the executive branch?

I await what I suspect will be a long silence.

 

[hulugu]

...You think a basketball coach is going to last very long if all he can do is point at the failures of years past?

Well, usually a coach will have to work through the current recruiting class and if they're not very good, there's very little a basketball coach can do in the first two years of his tenure. If that team also happened to be under a suspension or NCAA sanctions, that would further keep a coach from building a team capable of winning championships. So, our theoretical basketball coach would be perfectly valid in referring to the previous coach when someone asked him why, if after a few years, he didn't have a team in the big dance.

...Jobs is spinning in his grave over Obama's "You didn't build that!" nonsense.

Buddhists don't spin in their graves. And, if I understand Jobs' intelligence and understanding of business (see his move to capture SSDs for the Christmas season) and infrastructure (see the SC offices), he would understand what Obama is arguing about.

We discuss this idea before and I think someone mentioned Carl Sagan's highly appropriate quote: "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe."
All American businesses operate on the shoulders of American infrastructure. Without DARPA, Amazon would just be a bookstore. Without CERN (not American) we wouldn't have iTunes.

Henry Ford's Rouge River factory was able to ship equipment and material by boat because the federal government dredged the river.

Business people need to stop believing in the fairy-tale of the bootstrap and remember the reality of our social contract.

 

[MacDav]

Agree

Exactly. There has been a divide in the country that has been instigated by the corporate media and both parties through political rhetoric that has made us so angry towards each other over perceived party lines that we're too busy arguing over silly things instead of working WITH each other. I know we all want the same things, a better country, a better economy, a better environment. We may disagree on how to achieve them, but what happened to listening, civil discourse, mutual respect? Why is it "liberal" this and "conservative" that? We've become children fighting in the sandbox while both parties make deals with lobbyists, corporations, selling us out for a larger piece of the "American Pie".

In the end, they're laughing at us while we continue to fight each other. A divided nation is a conquered one, and in the words of Dan Rather, "I have never seen a nation more divided since the Vietnam War, and this is worse".

Read "Broken Government" by ex Nixon legal aid John Dean. It's a great perspective on how we have fallen from grace; from a country in the mid 20th century in which politicians/congressmen would stay in D.C. and help each other. Republicans would help newly appointed Democrats draft bills, even if they disagree with them, and vice versa. They stayed in D.C. instead of rushing back to their home states. They didn't play into the rhetoric that so much so, and they didn't filibuster important bills just to tow their party lines (at least not as much as presently speaking). We've let the system get out of hand, we've let them play with our emotions, and it seems we're too far gone to make the changes in each other we need to be a better nation. Sad days. Just read some of the vitriol on this thread!

The extreme left and the extreme right have something in common; given enough power and control both lead to Fascism. Hitler's Germany was born of the extreme right and Stalin's Russia born of the extreme left. The extreme left is the female animal instinct running wild, and the extreme right is the male animal instinct running wild. Humans (Men and Women) have both instincts as choices that are available to them. If they use objectivity instead of emotion, they will choose wisely and not necessarily in accordance with their natural gender bias . Nature (or God depending on your view) created two sexes with different instincts for a reason. The reason is to balance and temper each other. The truth is in the balance of the two. The extreme components never objectively listen to the other side and nothing is ever accomplished but ranting and raving. Thank God (or Nature) for all the people in the middle, they are the voice of sanity, they are the ones with a balanced view and they are the ones who keep things moving forward despite all the loud and frenzied rhetoric from the extremes. The other side is not the enemy, but our common salvation.

 

[Jagardn]

I also refer you to post #59 above, and consider yourself educated.

BTW.. Bush nor Romney got bin Laden.

BL.

Obama didn't get him either.

 

[MacCurry]

"There's not a lick of difference between the two parties."

AND

"We have the best congress money can buy."

 

[Zombie Acorn]

You see that house you built with your bare hands? You didn't build that, some illegal chopped that wood down, your house belongs to mexico.

 

[Starflyer]

Uh oh... Free App Store rankings: Romney - 15; Obama - 154