MKBHD's M2 MBP review is out.

[maflynn]

looks like the embargo has been lifted

I think the numbers are quite impressive. I don't think its enough for current M1 owners to upgrade but its nice bump nonethless

 

[MayaUser]

The real impressions is that others who compared them in actual apps...says that gpu scaling is almost fixed or at least improved compared to the M1 family

 

[russell_314]

I bet Apple was sweating waiting on that review. He doesn't need their approval so if it's something he doesn't like he'll say it. That 16" M2 MBP is very tempting but I really don't need it 🤣

 

[TSE]

What I got from all these reviews is the M1 Pro & Max to M2 Pro & Max improvements are greater than the baseline M1 to M2 improvements. Seems like a great generational leap in performance without improving the node size (4nm or 3nm).

 

[bcortens]

What I got from all these reviews is the M1 Pro & Max to M2 Pro & Max improvements are greater than the baseline M1 to M2 improvements. Seems like a great generational leap in performance without improving the node size (4nm or 3nm).

It seems like whatever was holding the GPU back (preventing performance from scaling with theoretical TFlops) in the M1 generation has been solved here - we'll have to wait for the M2 Ultra to see if they fixed it there too but this is very promising so far. The 38 Core M2 Max looks far more impressive in GFXBench when looking at the 3080 Laptop chip compared to the M1Max.

 

[maflynn]

What I got from all these reviews is the M1 Pro & Max to M2 Pro & Max improvements are greater than the baseline M1 to M2 improvements. Seems like a great generational leap in performance without improving the node size (4nm or 3nm).

The general consensus - one that I championed is that the M2 Pro/Max were not a huge update, and one shouldn't expect it being an incremental update. I was wrong, its a really nice step up and kudos to Apple

 

[leman]

It seems like whatever was holding the GPU back (preventing performance from scaling with theoretical TFlops) in the M1 generation has been solved here - we'll have to wait for the M2 Ultra to see if they fixed it there too but this is very promising so far. The 38 Core M2 Max looks far more impressive in GFXBench when looking at the 3080 Laptop chip compared to the M1Max.

Yep, I have noticed that as well. M1 series did well in games but one always had the impression that in more general workflows the performance was a bit wobbly. In applications like Blender M1 GPUs performed significantly lower than expected on their compute capability. But according to these new Blender results the M2 GPUs perform much closer to the expectations: e.g the ~14TFLOPS M2 Max is not far off the ~15TFLOPs mobile 3070. Seems that Apple at least partially addressed whatever was holding their GPUs back. It seems that M2 series is the first Apple GPU designed specifically for desktop use and one that performs like a desktop CPU. Now bring that hardware RT support and Apple Silicon just might become a force to be reckoned with in production rendering.

 

[GumaRodak]

So every new update making the previous version obsolete right? Great for value holding

 

[leman]

So every new update making the previous version obsolete right? Great for value holding

There are two kinds of people in the world: those who complain that the updates are worthless, and those who complain that updates make previous product obsolete.

 

[gpat]

What I got from all these reviews is the M1 Pro & Max to M2 Pro & Max improvements are greater than the baseline M1 to M2 improvements. Seems like a great generational leap in performance without improving the node size (4nm or 3nm).

It shows a lot better when you can put the chip in a properly cooled envelope.
In a Macbook Air, you're pretty much at the mercy of manufacturing process improvements.
In a 16", more GPU cores? More transistors? Sure, keep 'em coming

 

[maflynn]

So every new update making the previous version obsolete right? Great for value holding

I wouldn't say obsolete, the M1 is still a fantastic processor and the M1 based laptops are excellent products. Btw, this is no different with Intel/AMD and their new processors ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[FreakinEurekan]

So every new update making the previous version obsolete right? Great for value holding

News flash: New stuff is faster than old stuff.

 

[MrGunny94]

The big improvement is the GPU Scaling from what it seems! It's such an insane upgrade from anyone coming from a 13" Intel or 16" Intel! As a M1 Pro full die owner, I'm staying put for the M3 Pro / Max.

What I got from all these reviews is the M1 Pro & Max to M2 Pro & Max improvements are greater than the baseline M1 to M2 improvements. Seems like a great generational leap in performance without improving the node size (4nm or 3nm).

Yeah it's quite impressive without a node jump. Can't wait to see what M3 Pro and M3 Max can do.

 

[russell_314]

So every new update making the previous version obsolete right? Great for value holding

It depends on the user of the device. If your time spending an extra minute on a process to complete is worth more than $3000+ to upgrade the computer then yes the old system is obsolete and needs replacing.

If your time is worth more than the replacement cost for a few minutes, I don’t think it’s a problem with the budget. For the rest of us who don’t make thousands of dollars a minute it’s perfectly fine to wait on an upgrade.

 

[sam_dean]

I don't think its enough for current M1 owners to upgrade but its nice bump nonethless

Replacement cycles per...

- Apple: Every 4 years
- Intel: Every 5-6 years
- Me: Every 10 years after final macOS/Windows Security Update

But it generally about your use case. Like if I have a project that paid well enough to buy the latest and greatest then go for it.

 

[WoodTableFromIkea]

looks like the embargo has been lifted

I think the numbers are quite impressive. I don't think its enough for current M1 owners to upgrade but its nice bump nonethless

View attachment 2146804

When will people learn that new hardware is not meant for people that have last year's hardware... MKBHD says it, but any person with some sense also knows it.

Always been like this, will always be like this until the end of time: NEW HARDWARE IS NOT AIMED AT PEOPLE THAT HAVE LAST YEAR'S HARDWARE.

Replacement cycles per...

- Apple: Every 4 years
- Intel: Every 5-6 years
- Me: Every 10 years after final macOS/Windows Security Update

But it generally about your use case. Like if I have a project that paid well enough to buy the latest and greatest then go for it.

Exactly.

 

[maflynn]

When will people learn that new hardware is not meant for people that have last year's hardware

If someone who owns an M1 wants to buy the M2, they certainly can and are free to spend their money as they see fit ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[tstafford]

If someone who owns an M1 wants to buy the M2, they certainly can and are free to spend their money as they see fit ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

For sure.

But I'll say this - the days of me upgrading Apple stuff (esp. iPhone) frequently are long gone. In the "old days" of iPhone 3/4/5/6/7/8 the updates were pretty significant. I wanted to update annually by generally did it every other (for whatever reason I was on the "S" path). Now I hold an iPhone for four years or so - went from 8 to 13. Did it because I wanted 5G. I have zero interest in a 14 or 15. The updates just don't mean much to me any more. Dynamic Island?

On the computer side, about 10 days ago I moved on from my last Intel Mac. My current equipment will be with me or an immediate family member for a long time. The M1 and M2 stuff is really good. I don't want to change out any of my devices right now. They simply work too well for that.

I enjoy the heck out of my computer stuff. And I'm quick to spend $$$ on it, so I don't blame anyone for upgrading. I'll be first in line for a 12" MB if it is 2lbs and has ~20 hour battery and a promotion version of the ASD will be hard not to buy!!

 

[sam_dean]

If someone who owns an M1 wants to buy the M2, they certainly can and are free to spend their money as they see fit ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That sort of permissiveness gets men to create 2nd batches of kids even when they cannot afford to finance the 1st batch. 😂

 

[sam_dean]

For sure.

But I'll say this - the days of me upgrading Apple stuff (esp. iPhone) frequently are long gone. In the "old days" of iPhone 3/4/5/6/7/8 the updates were pretty significant. I wanted to update annually by generally did it every other (for whatever reason I was on the "S" path). Now I hold an iPhone for four years or so - went from 8 to 13. Did it because I wanted 5G. I have zero interest in a 14 or 15. The updates just don't mean much to me any more. Dynamic Island?

On the computer side, about 10 days ago I moved on from my last Intel Mac. My current equipment will be with me or an immediate family member for a long time. The M1 and M2 stuff is really good. I don't want to change out any of my devices right now. They simply work too well for that.

I enjoy the heck out of my computer stuff. And I'm quick to spend $$$ on it, so I don't blame anyone for upgrading. I'll be first in line for a 12" MB if it is 2lbs and has ~20 hour battery and a promotion version of the ASD will be hard not to buy!!

For iPad, Watch and Macs I tend to hold onto them until after the final Security Update is released. Where in I buy the the next future model that directly replaces it.

Example: 2012 iMac 27" 22nm to 2023 iMac 27" 5nm. Final Security Update was 5 months ago and I hope a iMac 27" replacement will be out by WWDC 2023 in June. I also expect power consumption to drop from >200W to <100W when I replace this 10yo iMac.

Reason being my use case has not changed since 2015. If you have not changed its use then why follow industry studies that say replacement is expected in 4-5-6 years?

With the iPhone I stick to every 2 years for the "S" model. I just want a better camera, fresh new battery, better performance per watt and hardware that has not been dropped or jostled as I dont want to be holding a disabled phone in a possibly high stress environment.

Not to mention it's a business expense.

 

[tstafford]

For iPad, Watch and Macs I tend to hold onto them until after the final Security Update is released. Where in I buy the the next future model that directly replaces it.

Example: 2012 iMac 27" 22nm to 2023 iMac 27" 5nm. Final Security Update was 5 months ago and I hope a iMac 27" replacement will be out by WWDC 2023 in June. I also expect power consumption to drop from >200W to <100W when I replace this 10yo iMac.

Reason being my use case has not changed since 2015. If you have not changed its use then why follow industry studies that say replacement is expected in 4-5-6 years?

With the iPhone I stick to every 2 years for the "S" model. I just want a better camera, fresh new battery, better performance per watt and hardware that has not been dropped or jostled as I dont want to be holding a disabled phone in a possibly high stress environment.

Not to mention it's a business expense.

Totally get all of that. We are still using our 2015 iMac (wife loves it) but I will insist it goes away once it can't get security updates - just too much worry for me.

I actually had the battery in my iPhone 8 replaced - something I've never done on any Apple device in the past. I used to figure when the battery went, it was time to upgrade. Will likely do the same on my Mini 13 - it might be with me a long time since they have discontinued that size device. . .

 

[maflynn]

That sort of permissiveness gets men to create 2nd batches of kids even when they cannot afford to finance the 1st batch. 😂

Actually its quite presumptuous to assume you would know better in how someone spends their money. Again, you have no right to tell someone else who to spend their money ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[russell_314]

Reason being my use case has not changed since 2015. If you have not changed its use then why follow industry studies that say replacement is expected in 4-5-6 years?

I don't know exactly what you do with your computer but for most people even if they do the same thing it's not the same thing. For example browsing the internet isn't the same in 2023 as it was in 2013. Editing videos back then were probably 1080P but now most at 4k. If you update your apps or games they are likely use more resources based on the developer's expectation of people using newer hardware. I honestly do the same thing today as I did with my PC back in 1998 but that computer couldn't do any tasks for me today.

I tell people base your upgrade on if you're happy how it's working. If browsing the web is painfully slow and you have to go for coffee after you open a Word doc then it's probably time for a new computer or at least check to see what's going on. If it seems normal and everything is working fine then maybe not.

Speed is sometimes based on what you're used to though so I don't recommend trying a newer computer because you might feel like your current one is too slow. When I switch between my MacBook Air and my gaming PC for tasks like watching YouTube or opening a document I can tell the difference. Even though it's less than two years old (Intel i7-11700K) it's slightly slower. It's not enough to bother me but I notice it. If I was coming from a 5+ year old PC switching back and forth, it would bother me.

 

[sam_dean]

Actually its quite presumptuous to assume you would know better in how someone spends their money. Again, you have no right to tell someone else who to spend their money ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Anyone based our assumptions on observations within eyeshot and earshot.

So when we speak up it is based on experience.

I'll give an analogy.

Almost everyone takes in water & food through their months so odds are if I say close your mouth out of politeness and etiquette when you chew it would be nearly 100% applicable.

For the 1% exception that has a medical condition that prevents nutrition and hydration via mouth then we fall back to "there is exceptions to the rule".

As for how anyone spends their money... yes it's their business... but when their behavior negatively impacts people that they created and still depend on them then it becomes a point of discussion.

So I stand by my statement that such permissiveness allows for bad parents to foresake their 1st batch of kids and create 2nd batch of kids even when said parent cannot support any of them.

YouTubers are out to get ad revenue and referral link financial incentives. They only care that they get more subs and views.

I've read of many forum members having issues with YouTubers that provide benchmarks that are relevant to YouTuber's profession and not other benches that are relevant to the viewer's typical use cases.

 

[maflynn]

Anyone based our assumptions on observations within eyeshot and earshot.

Huh???

Your post makes no sense.

Bottom line, you can spend money as you see fit, and others can as they see fit. Basically stay in your lane.