MMS uses the Cellular Data Network!

TheSpaz

macrumors 604
Original poster
Jun 20, 2005
7,032
1
Okay... so I've got a go-phone sim card in my iPhone 3G and I've obviously turned off data to save money. When I try to send an MMS, it fails with the message "You are not subscribed to a cellular data network."

Was this a coincidence or does MMS truly go through 3G and EDGE rather than the same path as SMS?
 

anjinha

macrumors 604
Oct 21, 2006
7,271
62
San Francisco, CA
Okay... so I've got a go-phone sim card in my iPhone 3G and I've obviously turned off data to save money. When I try to send an MMS, it fails with the message "You are not subscribed to a cellular data network."

Was this a coincidence or does MMS truly go through 3G and EDGE rather than the same path as SMS?
I think it does.

Before MMS was out our carrier here had a MMS app in the appstore. In the description it said we needed to have data available to send MMS.
 

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
16,609
34,776
USA
Okay... so I've got a go-phone sim card in my iPhone 3G and I've obviously turned off data to save money. When I try to send an MMS, it fails with the message "You are not subscribed to a cellular data network."

Was this a coincidence or does MMS truly go through 3G and EDGE rather than the same path as SMS?
Look at the calendar. Is it the 25th yet? Do you have the official carrier file? No. Ask again in 24-48 hours

ETA: and most likely it uses data which is why when people turned roaming off and travelled and sent an MMS using a hack - they wound up with a data charge as it turn data (roaming) back on for the transaction
 

TheSpaz

macrumors 604
Original poster
Jun 20, 2005
7,032
1
Look at the calendar. Is it the 25th yet? Do you have the official carrier file? No. Ask again in 24-48 hours
I'm not on an iPhone plan anymore... I should already have MMS enabled. Right? Go-phone plans are not restricted like the iPhone plans are.
 

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
16,609
34,776
USA
I'm not on an iPhone plan anymore... I should already have MMS enabled. Right? Go-phone plans are not restricted like the iPhone plans are.
You're still not using an official carrier release though are you? So you don't know if the settings in YOUR file are the ones that will ultimately be correct.
 

aphexacid

macrumors 6502a
Jul 31, 2007
915
18
Chicago
This is common knowledge. Maybe the iphone handles it differently because....its the iphone lol.

But MMS uses data to send. you dont need to have a data plan to have it work obviously, but thats how it works.

SMS uses data too, gprs.
 

TheSpaz

macrumors 604
Original poster
Jun 20, 2005
7,032
1
Update: It went through after I turned off the Fake APN data block.... however, I still have not gotten the account balance warning... so I'm wondering if it used data or if it was just because the Fake APN settings screwed it up.
 

anjinha

macrumors 604
Oct 21, 2006
7,271
62
San Francisco, CA
This is common knowledge. Maybe the iphone handles it differently because....its the iphone lol.

But MMS uses data to send. you dont need to have a data plan to have it work obviously, but thats how it works.

SMS uses data too, gprs.
He doesn't need to have a data plan but he needs to have data available. TheSpaz has data blocked.

Update: It went through after I turned off the Fake APN data block.... however, I still have not gotten the account balance warning... so I'm wondering if it used data or if it was just because the Fake APN settings screwed it up.
It might work differently there but here, even though MMS uses the Cellular Data Network, you don't get charged more for data, you just get charged for the MMS.
 

yg17

macrumors G5
Aug 1, 2004
14,888
2,480
St. Louis, MO
MMS does use data and if you block data, MMS won't work.

SMS uses data too, gprs.
Actually not quite. SMS will work without a data connection. MMS won't though, there's a difference in how the two are sent across the network. SMS uses the signaling network to transmit messages which is the reason for the character limit. MMS is basically a combination of SMS and data; when you send, the message, picture, video or whatever is uploaded to a server at your provider, and then what is essentially an SMS message (although the end user never sees it) is sent to the recipient's phone which tells it there's a new MMS and where to download it via the data network.
 

jav6454

macrumors P6
Nov 14, 2007
16,864
1,480
1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
This is common knowledge. Maybe the iphone handles it differently because....its the iphone lol.

But MMS uses data to send. you dont need to have a data plan to have it work obviously, but thats how it works.

SMS uses data too, gprs.
Not quite. SMS piggy backs on the already existing connection between the phone and the tower that determines the signal strength.
 

TheSpaz

macrumors 604
Original poster
Jun 20, 2005
7,032
1
Spaz, stop spamming the forums. You don't have an iPhone, nor do you have a strong grasp on the way phone data works.
I'm not spamming the forum. Also, you're right... I don't have a strong grasp on exactly how data works. I used to think MMS went through the same channel as SMS. Apparently I was mistaken. So now I wonder... how will people, who don't have data plans, get MMS?
 

jav6454

macrumors P6
Nov 14, 2007
16,864
1,480
1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
I'm not spamming the forum. Also, you're right... I don't have a strong grasp on exactly how data works. I used to think MMS went through the same channel as SMS. Apparently I was mistaken. So now I wonder... how will people, who don't have data plans, get MMS?
They still will. The data that goes as internet usage goes thru a different server. Data usage for MMS goes thru another server.
 

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
16,609
34,776
USA
how will people, who don't have data plans, get MMS?
MMS is technically data - but ATT differentiates between it and other data.

MMS is sent as two streams - the text portion and the media portion. Hidden to the user during transport - the SMS shows up and pulls the MMS data through when there's an MMS enabled device on the other end. If not, you get that msg that you have to log into a website to view the content.
 

jaikob

macrumors 6502
Jul 1, 2008
429
0
Freeland, MI
As predicted. Here come the MMS complaint threads. A day early too! :rolleyes:

Usually if you have service, you have the edge network, if you dont have service, obviously there will be no way to send MMS anyways.
 

TheSpaz

macrumors 604
Original poster
Jun 20, 2005
7,032
1
They still will. The data that goes as internet usage goes thru a different server. Data usage for MMS goes thru another server.
What I'm saying is... if you don't have a data plan (like me) the iPhone will chew up data even when idle... out of the blue I'd get "you just spent $1.59" or something like that even when I was using any apps or trying to access the internet. So for that, I installed a profile which gives me a Fake APN address so that data can't even enter my iPhone.

Now... MMS will not work for me if I have the Fake APN profile installed... but if I remove it, MMS WILL work. Then, if I add it again, DATA STILL WORKS even thought it says it can't connect to a data network. I loaded Google.com easily even after Fake APN was still installed. So I figured it was the modified carrier file that was screwing up Fake APN so I had to restore my iPhone so that I woulnd't getting data charges.
 

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
16,609
34,776
USA
What I'm saying is... if you don't have a data plan (like me) the iPhone will chew up data even when idle... out of the blue I'd get "you just spent $1.59" or something like that even when I was using any apps or trying to access the internet. So for that, I installed a profile which gives me a Fake APN address so that data can't even enter my iPhone.

Now... MMS will not work for me if I have the Fake APN profile installed... but if I remove it, MMS WILL work. Then, if I add it again, DATA STILL WORKS even thought it says it can't connect to a data network. I loaded Google.com easily even after Fake APN was still installed. So I figured it was the modified carrier file that was screwing up Fake APN so I had to restore my iPhone so that I woulnd't getting data charges.
Well the real bottom line is and moral to this story is - if you have an iPhone - you have to have a data plan. If you try and hack or scam your way out of doing what's required by AT&T - then you are liable for any and all data charges.
 

TheSpaz

macrumors 604
Original poster
Jun 20, 2005
7,032
1
Well the real bottom line is and moral to this story is - if you have an iPhone - you have to have a data plan. If you try and hack or scam your way out of doing what's required by AT&T - then you are liable for any and all data charges.
I fully accept that. If I can't send or receive MMS, that's just fine with me. I was just bored and I decided to try it.

By the way... I don't think I'm scamming anyone by only using the services that I'm paying for. Scamming would be like someone using 3G and only paying the $20 (original iPhone) price. I'm paying the correct amount for all my data access, sms messages and phone minutes that I use.
 

muledogus

macrumors 6502
Mar 18, 2009
277
0
What I'm saying is... if you don't have a data plan (like me) the iPhone will chew up data even when idle... out of the blue I'd get "you just spent $1.59" or something like that even when I was using any apps or trying to access the internet. So for that, I installed a profile which gives me a Fake APN address so that data can't even enter my iPhone.

Now... MMS will not work for me if I have the Fake APN profile installed... but if I remove it, MMS WILL work. Then, if I add it again, DATA STILL WORKS even thought it says it can't connect to a data network. I loaded Google.com easily even after Fake APN was still installed. So I figured it was the modified carrier file that was screwing up Fake APN so I had to restore my iPhone so that I woulnd't getting data charges.
Kudos to you Spaz for being able to keep track of everything you do to your phone. I get lost just reading about the stuff you do.
 

TheSpaz

macrumors 604
Original poster
Jun 20, 2005
7,032
1
Thanks for blogging about it here.
Was that necessary?

Perhaps some people here at MacRumors didn't know that MMS uses the data connection. So all these people will unofficial AT&T plans, might think they'll be getting MMS, but maybe they won't be getting it after-all.

Kudos to you Spaz for being able to keep track of everything you do to your phone. I get lost just reading about the stuff you do.
If you only knew the half of it. This iPhone has gone through a LOT. I'm surprised it still works! If it ever stops working, I have an original iPhone here in mint condition. Hehe.
 

yg17

macrumors G5
Aug 1, 2004
14,888
2,480
St. Louis, MO
I'm not spamming the forum. Also, you're right... I don't have a strong grasp on exactly how data works. I used to think MMS went through the same channel as SMS. Apparently I was mistaken. So now I wonder... how will people, who don't have data plans, get MMS?
People who don't have data plans (on other phones besides the iPhone of course) still get MMS because they don't block data, the phone is still free to connect to the data network to send and receive an MMS, and I do not believe they're charged for this data, not 100% positive on that though. If you completely block off data, then you're screwed.

The iPhone is designed to be used with a data plan and Apple assumes that people won't try to screw their carrier by using it without one, so they make no such provision for a phone to use data for MMS without using data for anything else like dumbphones do.