Mods please close

[alust2013]

I don't like either. The BMW has a lot of miles and probably isn't an ideal first car. The Integra, while cool and fun and reliable, will be stupid expensive to insure for someone 17. I'd look around for something like an accord. They're everywhere, cheap, reliable and inexpensive to insure. (Civics are pretty expensive for insurance too)

 

[stevenpa]

I have owned BMW for the last 5 of my cars (all used).

I would get the BMW:
Safe
reliable
babied
clean
not fast (this model you speak of)

I had a 1995 525i (my first BMW) after coincidentally my first new owned car a 1991 Acura integra LS special.

The Acura was a great car, but as it got older it too was harder to repair and expensive. BMW is just as easy to fix, or find parts for, and maybe easier than the Integra.

Anyway, I am over the pretentious attributes of people who point at german car buyers. Mercedes, BMW, and the like are fine Autos, and people drive them for many reasons. I love the service, the looks, but more importantly- the Drive. I personally don't like driving any other brand, it's just that good, for me anyway.

A la Steve Jobs - NO.

Any Japanese car is WAY easier to fix. And once a Bimmer hits 120k-150k miles or so you should get rid of it, maintenance will be a lot more than $2k. Go ask any BMW mechanic and they will tell you the same thing. My family owns both brands (and similar models) right now and although the BMW is a clearly superior car, the price difference and maintenance/insurance costs are not worth it, especially for a 17 year old.

The BMW may also be slightly safer, since they are a bit more solid, but not by that much given the year models. Also most BMWs are not "babied" nor kept that clean from just what I've experienced.

As for brands, both are technically luxury brands if you want to define it as such. Sure the BMW has more prestige, but then why not pick up a used Porsche Boxster?

 

[sysiphus]

Neither one makes loads of sense. The BMW is a really impractical choice--the purchase price of the car is only a fraction of what it will cost to keep it running. Unless you can afford to do the wrench time yourself, toss it out. The parts cost alone is going to sting. You trivialize the matter by saying "under 2k is ok for repairs"...the big problem is that the car will need lots of upkeep, and BMW parts just don't come cheap. It's very tempting to go for the older "prestige" car, but there's a reason you can get a $40k (new) car for so little now--because they're still not really cheap in the big picture.

Yes, the E39 is a safe car, but it's also way too much car for a beginner. It's "only" the 525, but even still, it's a relatively fast/heavy car with RWD--a lousy combination for an inexperienced driver. If safety is your concern and you still want a car that will look slick, try to find something like a Volvo S60 or Saab 9-3...both will still be nice, are very safe, cheaper to run, and have FWD, thus being a better snow/beginner car. Audi will cost at least a much to run as the Bimmer, but at least you can get AWD for better snow driving.

The Acura is a somewhat more practical choice, though you could get a lot more bang for your buck by finding a nicely-equipped Honda instead. You're bargain shopping, and bargain shopping by brand doesn't work very well. Oh, and don't forget insurance costs--insuring a teenage boy is murder to begin with, and on a sportsy/high-end car, forget about it.

Personally, I've had a beige '01 Toyota Corolla for about 5 years now, and love it--the car's needed exactly one non-standard-maintenance repair in its life (it was my grandfather's car originally, thus I know its history), gets 33ish combined mpg on regular fuel, and is easy to drive, cheap to run, and actually pretty fun. Not much prestige, but the best kind of car is the one that's paid for/that you can afford

 

[coupdetat]

I know very little about Saabs, but have seen some reasonably priced ones that looked interesting. Are they reliable cars? I rarely see any high-mileage Saabs which worries me. Same goes for Volvos, and I've heard various horror stories about late-model Volvos and electrical issues. One guy I know has had a TON of trouble unloading an S80 because of its reputation. Both Volvos and Saabs are very popular in the northeast, though.

If I were to look at Saabs and Volvos, what kind of mileage should I be looking for?

In terms of maintenance, my dad and I can do most of the regular stuff (brakes, suspension, oil and various fluids). I quickly looked up some random parts and they seem to be about twice the price of the same Japanese car parts, which is pretty manageable.

The benefit of the Acura seems to be that it is in great shape. I didn't bother to look at any of the Hondas I found on Craigslist because they looked to be pretty trashed.

Also, I've read a lot of people talking about insurance costs. I'll just repeat again, we already cleared it w/the insurance company and both cars will be very cheap to insure.

Question for anyone who owns an older BMW that cares to answer: how much, approximately, did you spend in maintenance last year?

 

[sysiphus]

I know very little about Saabs, but have seen some reasonably priced ones that looked interesting. Are they reliable cars? I rarely see any high-mileage Saabs which worries me. Same goes for Volvos, and I've heard various horror stories about late-model Volvos and electrical issues. One guy I know has had a TON of trouble unloading an S80 because of its reputation. Both Volvos and Saabs are very popular in the northeast, though.

If I were to look at Saabs and Volvos, what kind of mileage should I be looking for?

In terms of maintenance, my dad and I can do most of the regular stuff (brakes, suspension, oil and various fluids). I quickly looked up some random parts and they seem to be about twice the price of the same Japanese car parts, which is pretty manageable.

The benefit of the Acura seems to be that it is in great shape. I didn't bother to look at any of the Hondas I found on Craigslist because they looked to be pretty trashed.

Also, I've read a lot of people talking about insurance costs. I'll just repeat again, we already cleared it w/the insurance company and both cars will be very cheap to insure.

Question for anyone who owns an older BMW that cares to answer: how much, approximately, did you spend in maintenance last year?

Can't tell you much about the Saabs (from experience, at least), but the Volvos can be pretty solid. My mom has a 2002 S60 T5, and it has been a very straightforward/reasonable car to keep running since new. I'd be willing to bet the S80 you mentioned was the first-generation model with the T6 engine--those were notorious for going bad, due to a lousy GM-sourced transmission that couldn't handle the torque put out by the engine. If you do go looking for an S60, try to avoid the 02 and 01 if it has an automatic transmission; the manual was bulletproof every year (though they're rather rare, especially in the later model years). It did come in an AWD model, though the Haldex AWD system can be costly to fix if it has troubles. The top-end model was the T5 for the first few years, then the R was available for a few years after that (300HP, AWD). You'll find scads of the 2.4T and 2.5T models, as they were the most common. All of them are FWD with an auto transmission (in the US). All models are turbo'd except the 2.4i, which was only available through 2004. It's the simplest/cheapest model, and is the only one you'll likely see without leather/nice options in it. The 2.4i, T5, and R were available with a stickshift.

As a general rule (this applies to the Volvos, but many other brands too): the maintenance history matters way more than the mileage.

 

[stevenpa]

Question for anyone who owns an older BMW that cares to answer: how much, approximately, did you spend in maintenance last year?

Have friends with multiple bimmers, new, used, leased. The older ones at 100K miles one had to fix the transmission on his 3, estimate was $2400-$2700. And he had suspension problems as well. Another friend had other issues, just sold the car instead of trying to fix. You should EXPECT to spend at least 1k to maintain a year, with the possibility that it could easilly jump to $3k. Not worth it IMO.

Just get a honda or toyota, limited issues, easier/cheaper to fix and if it looks a "pretty trashed," well you are getting a used car are you not?

Another option is a Mazda 6, saw quite a few from around 2006 models or so selling for pretty cheap. Car seems decent when I've driven it.

 

[Fugue]

Both the BMW and the Acura are horrible choices, especially for a new driver.

First of all, they both have too many miles on them. Anything over 100,000, even for a Honda, is a potential risk. Granted, there have been Civic's running over 500,000 miles without a problem, but how often do you hear about that?

Both are considered, or were considered, "luxury" cars when they were manufactured. Therefore, parts are much more expensive than say, an Accord or a Civic, or any American car for that matter.

Lastly, the Bimmer eats a ton of gas, and it probably requires a higher octane gas, which will cost.

My suggestion? Find him a Civic (they are extremely popular and sell fast on Craigslist so be ready) or an Accord. You can get pretty good deals on them, although the used prices have gone up due to the disaster in Japan.

Although I am personally not a fan of American cars, if you find a Ford with a low mileage and a good owner, you may be lucky.

Good Luck.

 

[StvenH90]

100,000 miles on todays cars is nothing... If it has been taken care of. If the car has over 200,000 miles, I stay away, even if it's diesel (Unless it very cheap).

Heck, my 72 Triumph Spitfire had 83,xxx miles when I bought it in February. It has almost 92,000 miles on it now and I drive it everyday. Even out of state a few times, just add oil and bring tons of water (Water is for me, not the car).

Good example was a 93 Corvette with 128,xxx miles I bought almost two years ago for $5,900. I put over 20,000 miles on it in a year, drove it from Florida to California and back. Only problems was dead battery and lost my job, so could not afford to put tires on it... Other wise I would still have it.

Point is, don't be afraid of cars over 100,000 miles, may get a nicer car at a reduced price. Just make sure it's solid and been taken care of.

 

[Theclamshell]

Look at a Subaru SVX. It is an unusual car. I'm 16 and it is my first car. It may be a bit quick for a first time driver but it is safe. I'm not entirely talking crash test wise either. Look at the cars you listed. Most of them would spin out or be unable to be controlled if they had to swerve out of the way quickly on the highway in the hands of an inexperienced driver.

But the Subaru, with it's awd and low center of gravity stays planted. It's a very forgiving car and i trust it to be able to get me out of a bad situation. I would have no hesitation to sharply turn the wheel going 65+ if i had to get out of a bad situation.

Check out some AWD cars. I'm in MA and this thing is a monster in the snow. You can also teach your brother about handling in the snow with it, and you will have a blast sliding around parking lots. They can be expensive to maintain, but you can find some nice ones relatively cheap. Let me know if you have any questions.

Mine has 110k on it and it runs and drives fine, except for the idle but you don't have to worry about that. It's only on mine

 

[Vudoo]

I own a BMW and I will tell you that you better be prepared to pay for the maintenance. My oil changes are $130 or $80 if I do it myself. I did my front brakes myself and that cost me around $300. It would have been about a $1000 at the dealership. In four years of ownership, there has been close to $20,000 in repairs. I was lucky that most of it was covered under warranty. I love driving my BMW and probably will get another one, but I wouldn't recommend it for a 17 year old or anyone who can't afford the maintenance.

I would recommend a Honda Accord or Civic. Maybe a Toyota Camry or Corolla. Forget the luxury aspect since it's a car that will get him from point A to point B. I remember being in high school and wanting a cool car, but you have to let practicality win out. Also keep in mind that teenage drivers are highly likely to get into a car accident.

By the way, RWD is a pain when driving in snow or ice.

 

[Alaerian]

I would recommend a Honda Accord or Civic. Maybe a Toyota Camry or Corolla. Forget the luxury aspect since it's a car that will get him from point A to point B. I remember being in high school and wanting a cool car, but you have to let practicality win out. Also keep in mind that teenage drivers are highly likely to get into a car accident.

By the way, RWD is a pain when driving in snow or ice.

Well said.

Most importantly, as I've said several times, RWD is not appropriate for a new driver in inclement weather. Let them experience that later in their driving career, after they have already grown comfortable with FWD. Go ahead and try to convince yourself otherwise, but it'd simply fact - FWD is much easier to control in rain, ice, and snow. That's something a news driver NEEDS.

 

[StvenH90]

Mid 80's Maserati, can't get any safer then that and it's in your budget

 

[Obscurelight]

Well said.

Most importantly, as I've said several times, RWD is not appropriate for a new driver in inclement weather. Let them experience that later in their driving career, after they have already grown comfortable with FWD. Go ahead and try to convince yourself otherwise, but it'd simply fact - FWD is much easier to control in rain, ice, and snow. That's something a news driver NEEDS.

Probably true, funnily enough I was given a Mercedes S Class RWD when I was 16. Drove on snow several times that first winter and it really made me scared of driving on snow (had 2 slips but thankfully no accidents). Guess no one really cared about my safety . Fast forwarding now that I'm 19 and buying my first car I made sure I'm getting a AWD to help deal with the snow better. Bought myself a new GLK 350 4Matic and it will be given it's test this coming winter. .

 

[r1ch4rd]

Anyways, we've looked at our fair share of sensible FWD sedans but just didn't like them. They tended to be poorly cared for and had lots of niggling issues. It's shocking how many people neglect maintaining their brakes and tires!

You can replace tyres, brake pads etc. cheaply and easily. You can also use these issues to negotiate a lower price when it comes to paying. Don't be too afraid of a car with some minor issues (just get it checked over by a professional).

 

[Abstract]

BMW for a 17 year old is a bit pretentious. Plus, the repair costs will kill the budget. Acura for sure.

I'd get the Acura because it looks less douchebag-y than a 5-series BMW. Maybe kids nowadays would think a 17 year old with a BMW 5-series will be cool, but it sure wouldn't have been when I was in high school.

Image and brand recognition doesn't matter too much for me now, but sorry, it did a lot more in high school when 90% of people were just trying to fit in.

 

[neiltc13]

By the way, RWD is a pain when driving in snow or ice.

Any RWD car will struggle in snow or ice but one of the reasons BMWs fair so badly is because the engine is mounted in the front in all (I think) of their models. There is therefore no weight over the rear wheels and of course you will struggle even more to get traction because of this.

 

[mkrishnan]

Is there something else that we should look at?

Have you looked at any other Mazdas besides the Miata? You might not be able to get a 3 or 6 in that price range, but a Protege5 might be a good option, and for a front wheel drive car in that size class, I don't think you can beat the driving dynamics....

 

[fireshot91]

Meh, you people in Europe complaining about US being 'spoiled' and crap like that, don't worry. Most people aren't like that. My first car was/is a 2002 Honda Civic, with ~110,000 miles. The base model one. Well, it was given to me by my mom when she got a new car. (She bought it new in '02 for about $16k)

 

[acurafan]

my family are acura/bmw/honda owners and i tell you, we do not keep bmw's past warranty. while i can do the maintenance myself, my gf/relatives do not. bmw parts and repairs are expensive, esp. for teenagers who flip burgers to make ends meet. (if you're affluent, you most probably wouldn't be posting this question)

if you get the bmw, you better get snow tires, esp. if you're in the outer 'burbs of CT. i've driven thru the towns of greenwich, danbury, darien lake, not only dodging icy roads but idiotic drivers.

get practically, any of the used acura, honda, will be easy on the wallet.

 

[coupdetat]

Meh, you people in Europe complaining about US being 'spoiled' and crap like that, don't worry. Most people aren't like that. My first car was/is a 2002 Honda Civic, with ~110,000 miles. The base model one. Well, it was given to me by my mom when she got a new car. (She bought it new in '02 for about $16k)

"Spoiled and crap"???

All of the cars that I have looked at are worth less than your 2002 Honda Civic. Maybe I should be complaining about YOU. Now can we please quit all the hullaballoo about being spoiled and such over a sub-$5000 car?!

I think my mom has been swayed towards Acura by a friend. I've been watching Craigslist for Subarus but haven't seen anything under 180k miles in our price range.

Would a Mazda 626 5MT with 150k be a good car to look at? I rarely see 626's around, don't know much about them.

Thanks for the numbers, Vudoo. We can handle oil changes, brake rotors/pads, random electrical components like window motors and such, pretty much any suspension components, coolant, and probably transmission fluid (although never done that myself). The parts cost is no big deal. What gets expensive is if something in the engine or transmission goes wrong, because we have no experience or equipment to fix those kinds of problems. That's why I'm not TOO worried about overall maintenance costs. The car may be driven very little if he goes to college in a city next year.

 

[fireshot91]

"Spoiled and crap"???

All of the cars that I have looked at are worth less than your 2002 Honda Civic. Maybe I should be complaining about YOU. Now can we please quit all the hullaballoo about being spoiled and such over a sub-$5000 car?!

It's not ME complaining, you're free to buy whatever car you see fit. I have no control over where you spend your money. I could care less. Now, I do care where I spend MY money..but that's a different story.

 

[mkrishnan]

Would a Mazda 626 5MT with 150k be a good car to look at? I rarely see 626's around, don't know much about them.

I personally would stay away from the 626 -- I don't think it was a very good car / in any event the Mazda6 was a massive improvement over it. The Mazda3 is a big improvement over the Protege too, but the Protege was a much better car to start with. I think I'd limit older Mazdas to pretty much the Protege, 3, 6, and Miata (and I guess RX-8, but that's neither priced right nor a sensible first car to own).

 

[iJohnHenry]

(and I guess RX-8, but that's neither priced right nor a sensible first car to own).

Oh I don't know about that.

A 17-year-old would probably do well with a Wankel engine.

As for me, I got my first car when I could pay for it, and the insurance.

"buying for" and "gifts" were not common then.

 

[coupdetat]

It's not ME complaining, you're free to buy whatever car you see fit. I have no control over where you spend your money. I could care less. Now, I do care where I spend MY money..but that's a different story.

It's obvious from your post that you meant to say that my brother is spoiled, while you are not.

A quick web search turns up that the 626 doesn't have major reliability problems, so I'll take a look at it. Not so sure about Proteges, they are about the size of the Integra so I don't think there would be any safety benefit anyways.

It's no longer practical for a kid to NOT have a car in the suburbs with two working parents, at least not in big spread-out Connecticut 'burbs. There's no way for him to get to/from school, sports, hospital volunteering, and other activities without his own car. He couldn't work, either, for that matter.

Or, we could prevent him from doing any activities to strengthen his resume, allowing other students to outcompete him when college applications comes around. Because, you know, that would teach him a life lesson.

 

[MrSmith]

BMW drivers and the word 'wanker' have connections where I come from. YMMV, depending on your background.