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decafjava

macrumors 603
Original poster
Feb 7, 2011
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Geneva
Hello everyone, so I am pretty much decided my next upgrade will be the new Mac Mini. I will have to weigh my options for memory and storage (I won't need the pro) but wanted to ask the community about a decent monitor in terms of performance/price.

I read this article about meeting Apple retina specifications and display-scaling issues so want to avoid too much of a mismatch.

Mac Mini monitor options

Thanks for any advice.
 
If you are not going for the pro mini, why not consider an iMac? Then you don't have to worry about monitor compatibility.
 
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If you are not going for the pro mini, why not consider an iMac? Then you don't have to worry about monitor compatibility.
For me, they simply wanted too much for an iMac vs. Mac Mini. Part of that inflated cost is the keyboard I don't need (Already have the magic keyboard w/ keypad), and a mouse I can't stand, both of which Apple charges a premium for. That made the iMac display a $1150 upgrade over the mini, for a 23.5" screen.

I've also been wanting a screen I can share with my work laptop, and the iMac can't do that.

To the OP, I went with the INNOCN 27M2U-D. 4K, 27", Mini-LED. Not perfect, but, no monitor is. It was like CAD$480. A high-refresh gaming variant (with lower color accuracy) 27M2V is like CAD$750. Doesn't arrive for a few days, and a mini a few days after that, so I have no impressions to share.
 
Everything I’ve been reading says that Macs need to be connected to a monitor with a 218+ PPI and it’s making the search for a 32” monitor all but impossible…So if I bought a 4K monitor like the Samsung Neo G7, the font would be blurry because the PPI is only ~140? I have an Odyssey G7 at home and plugged my MacBook Pro into it as a test last night and it looked rough - BetterDisplay helped, but it’s still not perfect. I had no idea the search for a Mac Mini monitor would be so confusing. I’m not opposed to having to rely on BetterDisplay but it sucks not knowing how much it’s actually going to help on any given monitor.
 
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Asus now has a 27” 5k monitor and they are planning 32” 6k version, both have the 218 PPI needed for Macs.


Benq also announced a 27” 5k monitor. I am hoping that Dell also supports this pixel density now that this display panel is becoming more readily available.

 
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Apple Studio Display
Samsung Viewfinity S9
ASUS ProArt PA27JCV - Good value
 
I read this article about meeting Apple retina specifications and display-scaling issues so want to avoid too much of a mismatch.
If you want to avoid scaling and must have a 27" 220ppi display, then that article pretty much lays out the choice - Studio Display vs. Samsung S9 vs. try and hunt down an LG ultrafine. Or wait for the Benq that someone mentioned turns up. I don't think there's much doubt that the Studio Display is the optimum in terms of actual display quality (the panel may or may not be the same as the Samsung, but Apple's glossy-but-anti-reflective coating is excellent) - it's other things that, for me, affect its value-for-money: $400 for a properly adjustable stand, captive mains lead, no additional DP/HDMI inputs - the latter is the deal-breaker for me - it won't be an issue for many.

However - and although this is partly personal opinion I did write a long post a few years ago to back it up - I think the 4k display scaling issue has been somewhat exaggerated by a couple of articles which did a good job of explaining the issue but backed them up with some scary enlargements/simulations which I refute thus:

never_do_this.png

- "Never do this" courtesy of xkcd.com, the fount of all wisdom.

More seriously, see: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/psa-4k-display-resolutions.2345906/

I used a 28" 4k display as a second screen next to my 5k iMac for years, set to "looks like 2560x1440" (i.e. 5120x2880 downsampled to 4k and retaining a lot more detail than true 1440p) and, no, it's not as pin-sharp as true 5k, but it's really pretty good as long as you're actually going to get on with doing stuff rather than endless A/B comparisons. Yeah, you get a slight 'shimmer' on scrolling and sometimes see moire patterns on half-toning (which is nature's way of telling you that your artwork is going to look **** on web-pages etc. where it will get scaled) but I'd say that it is an acceptable compromise for the huge price difference. Also (something the scary articles fail to mention) if you hit a job where you (somehow) need pixel-accurate editing without zooming it takes seconds to change mode to "looks like 1080p" (again, full 4k resolution, not really 1080p at all - and with no fractional scaling) and put up with slightly chunky (but still perfectly usable) system fonts and icons while you do that job - or, if your eyesight is up to it, go to "3840x2160" for no scaling whatsoever (just about usable at 27"). Depends somewhat on what software you are using, whether you use full-screen or not - cross-platform apps tend to be designed for 1080p anyway which is still ubiquitous on PCs and be fairly efficient with screen space. Then of course, virtually every serious app gives you fine control over "zoom" or font size which you can adjust to taste - so this only affects system fonts/icons/dialog. I've never encountered anything that is unusable at "1080p" in MacOS.

...and remember, "retina" is a function of viewing distance as well as PPI (not everybody gets that) and 4k@27" is "retina" if you typically view it from more than 21" away.

Being honest, though, you'll have been spoiled by your 5k iMac and anything other than a Studio Display will seem like a downgrade for a while. However, you can mitigate that by "thinking different" about the sort of display configuration you choose. E.g.

  • Try a 24" 4k UHD display - saves desk space, and the "looks like 1080p" UI size will be about right.
  • For real estate - try a dual display setup. You can get two decent 4k displays for a lot less than a Studio Display - I find two separate displays makes window management easier and often have the primary app full-screened on one with other app windows on the second display.
  • Look at other screen ratios - such as ultrawide or 3:2. Personally, I use a pair of Huawei MateView 28" displays with 3:2 screens and 3840 × 2560 resolution. Think a 27" display with an extra inch and a bit of vertical space. I run these at "looks like 1920x1280" mode - no fractional scaling - and find the extra vertical space compensates for the slightly chunky UI (which primarily affects the menu bar and dock). I find that the 3:2 ratio is superior for everything unless you get triggered by black bars on 16:9 video (which don't affect the picture quality, anyway)

    The MateView 28" seems to be discontinued (and was always hard to get in the US) but if I were buying a display today, I'd probably be looking into the Benq 28" "programming monitor"
 
There is no issue with scaling. My old 4k 27" scaled is still much sharper than my secondary 27" 1440p professional series dell monitor. Replaced the 27" 4k monitor with a 32" 4k which I'm currently using also scaled, no issues at all. Everything is sharp.
 
Personally I wouldn't get bogged down with the whole integer scaling thing as it will seriously limit your options and you may be going to all the effort and extra expense in return for very little reward. I use a Dell Ultrafine 27" 3840x2160 with a 'looks like' macOS resolution of 2560x1440. Looks great to me. I would characterise it as Retina with a softer edge. Not blurry, and definitely cleaner looking than a native 1440p.
 
I've been using a 27" display for years.
First with my 2012 Mini (the display was a Viewsonic 1080p), and then with a 2018 Mini (used the Viewsonic a little while, then switched to a Dell Ultrasharp 27" 4k).

The Viewsonic 1080p worked ok for years.
But I found when I switched to the Dell 4k (running at "looks like 1080p"), it was definitely "sharper".

Some will say that 1920x1080 on a 27" display will yield text that is "too large" (when viewed at normal font sizes).

But for those of us "with old eyes", it's just fine.
I find a 27" 5k display (at "looks like 1440p") difficult to use -- text is TOO SMALL for me...
 
Good topic, too bad I haven't seen this before.
Made the same mistake a month ago. To save money. There are no options at all among 24-inch monitors. Monitors with a resolution of 2.5k look bad in MacOS.
Who are all those people who complain that the 24 iMac is too small? It's the perfect size.
27-inch monitors with a resolution of 4k are some kind of evil joke. In MacOS, they only work normally at a scale of 1920x1080. Everything else looks like it's broken. Your eyes get tired.
And you won't see notifications on the screen. The screen turns on to tell you that it's going to sleep. It turns on too slowly.
So the advice is rather this: don't buy a Mac mini. You won't be able to match a monitor to it. If you used an iMac before and are used to the Retina. You will end up spending no less money and it's better to buy an iMac right away.
No microphone, no camera, no light sensor. An iPhone as a webcam is actually not convenient.
It's not easy to get sound like an iMac.
The main problem with the monitors I've seen is that they don't have deep enough black. Because of this, it seems that the outlines are not clear enough and the fonts seem blurry.
Only at first does the picture seem softer. Then comes the feeling that something is wrong all the time.
 
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There are no options at all among 24-inch monitors. Monitors with a resolution of 2.5k look bad in MacOS.
Just had a look and you're right - new 24" 4k UHD displays are about as plentiful as hens' teeth - and I really wouldn't recommend a sub-4k display these days. I'm sure there were a few from Dell et. al. last time I looked, but the format is looking dead. Pity, because that would have been ideal for a Mini.

In MacOS, they only work normally at a scale of 1920x1080.
It's important to clarify that "1920x1080" in this case means "3840x2160" with system fonts, icons etc. shown twice the size (and with more detail to match). Unless you're using ancient software that doesn't support "retina" all the actual content in your app will still be displayed at full 4k definition. You're not buying a 4k monitor and running it at 2k. The UI is a bit chunky - but not unusable and the impact depends a bit on what software you are using.

The impact of fractional scaling seems to be very subjective (and I suspect it depends whether you go looking for artifacts). However, bear in mind that, in the past, Apple have released MacBooks which use fractional scaling by default... Fractional scaling on 4k or better is night and day compared to the mess you used to get running a 2k display at anything other than it's native resolution.
 
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I use a Dell U2723QE with my M1 MBP and I'm very happy with it. Couldn't go with a Studio Display because I have a pc hooked up to it as well. It's not the ideal resolution for OS X scaling, but I have yet to run into any performance issues. It's fairly bright and the colors are amazing.
 
I think the choice comes down to what you use your Mac for.

For all-round needs I would go with the Studio Display. Yes it’s expensive, but when you factor that you’re getting an excellent 27” P3 5K panel that’s 600 nits, with fantastic speakers, microphones (which video callers always say sound brilliant), a decent webcam (in good lighting conditions) and unrivalled build quality, there really isnt too big a premium in the pricing.

For photography and graphic art however, I would go with either the ASUS or BenQ 27” 5K. They’re cheaper as they don’t have all the same accessories such as microphones and a webcam (iPhone pairing somewhat mitigates this), however they gain much higher scores in Adobe RGB colour space testing - around 95% and above, compared to the Studio Display’s 85% range.

Also, these two monitors come preinstalled with better options for setting the height and angle of the unit.

It’s certainly not an easy choice!
 
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I have an LG 4K monitor that looks fine to me as I was coming from a 1080p monitor. I have BetterDisplay but I don't think it makes it look any better.

same here.
32" 4k, betterdispaly or monitor control.
2560x1440px.
No issue with scaling.
4k is a far away better than 1080p.
 
Just had a look and you're right - new 24" 4k UHD displays are about as plentiful as hens' teeth - and I really wouldn't recommend a sub-4k display these days. I'm sure there were a few from Dell et. al. last time I looked, but the format is looking dead. Pity, because that would have been ideal for a Mini.


It's important to clarify that "1920x1080" in this case means "3840x2160" with system fonts, icons etc. shown twice the size (and with more detail to match). Unless you're using ancient software that doesn't support "retina" all the actual content in your app will still be displayed at full 4k definition. You're not buying a 4k monitor and running it at 2k. The UI is a bit chunky - but not unusable and the impact depends a bit on what software you are using.

The impact of fractional scaling seems to be very subjective (and I suspect it depends whether you go looking for artifacts). However, bear in mind that, in the past, Apple have released MacBooks which use fractional scaling by default... Fractional scaling on 4k or better is night and day compared to the mess you used to get running a 2k display at anything other than it's native resolution.

Pretty much this in a nutshell. The 15.4" 2880x1800 MacBook Pros were all rolling non-integer scaling by default right out of the box and I don't recall the consensus opinion being that they looked terrible. Granted they had a higher overall pixel density than a 2160p 27" but even so. When I purchased my current 27" 4K monitor the pixel peepers were telling me I'd have to run it at 1920x1080px or it would look awful. I run it at 2560x1440px and it looks great, so fractional scaling doesn't automatically mean everything looks crap.
 
While I'm not going to say using a non 2:1 retina resolution won't add artifacts, I will say the artifacts are overblown for the majority. How can I say this with confidence? The MacBook Air ships with fractional scaling enabled, and somehow the world didn't care.
 
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Granted they had a higher overall pixel density than a 2160p 27" but even so.
The "retina" criteria is based on the definition of typical "20/20" vision - which is the ability to perceive a 1 arc minute feature on a test chart - a measure of angular distance, i.e. pixel spacing divided by viewing distance. Double the typical viewing distance and you halve the pixel density needed for retina. Hence >300ppi for an iPhone that you hold like a book vs. >220ppi for a laptop that you view from a bit further away. The magic distance for 27" 3840x2160 (163ppi) works out at 21" - YMMV but I find that pretty much matches my typical viewing distance for a 27" screen.

"Retina" is a very hand-wavy rule-of-thumb concept anyway - "20:20" vision is "typical" - not the best, certainly not worse. If you have better-than 20/20 vision then you'll probably be comfortable using a 27" or larger 4k display in 1:1 "looks like 3840x2160" mode which gives you a metric shedload of screen estate.
 
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You are right. If there are any problems, they are with the desktop display and scaling. 2560 x 1440 is probably too small, 2048 x 1152 is too large. Perhaps 2304 x 1296 would be optimal. But none of these resolutions have that ideal purity of line clarity. I initially wanted to play in 2560 x 1440 and I play in this resolution, everything is fine. The M2 base will not handle a higher resolution. I would be happy, but some little things do not allow me to be happy.
There are not many options. The price of a good 4K or 5K monitor together with the price of the Mac Mini itself is close to the price of an iMac. Buying an iMac may seem like a more reasonable choice.
 

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Thanks all for your suggestions and the informative discussion. I still have a lot to mull over, now I am currently at home typing this on my iMac but I should have indicated I use a laptop/external monitor setup at work. I have a company provided Lenovo Thinkpad on Windows 11 hooked up to an HP M27fe FHD running at 1920x1080. All to say I am used to a lower res than my iMac. I know people on Mac Minis, I will check with one friend running an M2 Mac Mini on their monitor and resolution.

This is going to take some thought and be a bit harder than I thought. 🤔 Again thanks for your responses. :)
 
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That looks pretty nice. Which port do you use to connect to (what I assume is) your Mac Mini?
It has a Thunderbolt 4 port, which I use with the last Mac Mini and will use with the new one. Keep an eye out for Dell’s Black Friday sale. It might hit $1300 for a day or two.
 
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