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I don't even want to do this kinda crap. I just want Siri to be able to quickly do basic math:

View attachment 2383700

Or be able to answer simple questions about the most popular sports league in the US, the NFL:

View attachment 2383701

It has gotten dumber over the years. Sometimes it just straight up gives me the wrong answer to a math question. Like here, it clearly received the decimal point in the query, shown at the bottom, but the result, shown above, is WAY off because it decided to remove the decimal for no good reason.

View attachment 2383702

And don't even get me started on how many times it forgets what my lights are called in my house and gaslights me about how there is nothing with that name in HomeKit. Then I try again a moment later and it works fine!

View attachment 2383703

Or that you can't even ask it basic questions, like what is the speed of light...because it gets confused.

View attachment 2383704

Apple, just fix Siri before you go gumming it up with all of this BS!!
5% divided by 12? 5% of what? Your math is as bad as Siri's
 
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So they will release a crippled AI solution all in the name of security.
 
If I were the manager of an AI Team at the moment, I'd let my employees do whatever overtime they want to do.
I don't even want to do this kinda crap. I just want Siri to be able to quickly do basic math:

View attachment 2383700

Or be able to answer simple questions about the most popular sports league in the US, the NFL:

View attachment 2383701

It has gotten dumber over the years. Sometimes it just straight up gives me the wrong answer to a math question. Like here, it clearly received the decimal point in the query, shown at the bottom, but the result, shown above, is WAY off because it decided to remove the decimal for no good reason.

View attachment 2383702

And don't even get me started on how many times it forgets what my lights are called in my house and gaslights me about how there is nothing with that name in HomeKit. Then I try again a moment later and it works fine!

View attachment 2383703

Or that you can't even ask it basic questions, like what is the speed of light...because it gets confused.

View attachment 2383704

Apple, just fix Siri before you go gumming it up with all of this BS!!
Overnight they could replace whatever language model they're using with GPT-4 and it would already improve Siri by magnitudes.

And then, they should give the developers proper tools to be able to add various hooks throughout iOS to use Siri.
Apple has always given half-assed SDKs for Siri. It has never worked properly.
 
I still just want PDF 2.0 support, complete CardDAV, CalDAV, and VCard 4.0 Safari to finally really stop website from asking to sent me notifications and more options for the default search engine. If iOS 18/macOS 15 would come with that I would call it a good upgrade.
 
That implies that you know it's wrong to start with. Which is the problem.
It is a problem, but that's part of critical thinking. Just as we don't blindly trust whatever is online (or anywhere), we don't blindly trust LLM outputs. The issue is when people blindly trust and don't understand that LLMs can confabulate (make up) responses.
 
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I don't even want to do this kinda crap. I just want Siri to be able to quickly do basic math:

View attachment 2383700

Or be able to answer simple questions about the most popular sports league in the US, the NFL:

View attachment 2383701

It has gotten dumber over the years. Sometimes it just straight up gives me the wrong answer to a math question. Like here, it clearly received the decimal point in the query, shown at the bottom, but the result, shown above, is WAY off because it decided to remove the decimal for no good reason.

View attachment 2383702

And don't even get me started on how many times it forgets what my lights are called in my house and gaslights me about how there is nothing with that name in HomeKit. Then I try again a moment later and it works fine!

View attachment 2383703

Or that you can't even ask it basic questions, like what is the speed of light...because it gets confused.

View attachment 2383704

Apple, just fix Siri before you go gumming it up with all of this BS!!
Agree. This should be fixed.
 
Last edited:
The AI Agent feature I've been commenting about:



A scenario:

User
:
Siri, I'd like to have dinner with my girlfriend tonight at that place I walked by last week with the red umbrella. I took a photo of it.

Siri:
Code:
Looks at your Photos (offline), finds the red umbrella, geotagged,
locates the restaurant in Apple Maps (online),
brings up OpenTable (online) cues up a reservation after looking at your Calendar (offline).

That was Sandro's on College St. I've found you a reservation for 2 at 8pm. You get off work at 5, that should give you enough time to get home, get ready and head over to Sandro's. Ana's schedule also shows her free. Would you like me to book it?

User:
Yes... no, wait, can we do 8:30 instead? I'd like to get a bottle of wine, does Sandro's have a corking fee?

Siri:
Code:
Looks up OpenTable (online) to see if there's an 8:30pm reservation.
Looks up Sandro's website (online) and searches for a corking fee.
Looks up Apple Maps for nearby wine stores,
finds one that's on the Ritual app (online) so they can can bag your wine for pickup,
finds that you've ordered 2 different wines via Ritual.

Sandro's has a $6 corking fee. I found you an 8:30 reservation. Would you like Mateus Rose or Wolf Blass - Yellow Label Sauvignon? I can reserve it at the Wine Cellar, a short walk from Sandro's.

User:
Let's do Mateus. Go ahead and book the reservation please.

Siri:
Code:
Goes to OpenTable, places the reservation on your behalf.
Goes to Ritual, orders a bottle of Mateus Rose for pickup at 8pm.
Adds an event in your calendar with directions to the Wine Cellar
and another at 8:30pm with directions from there to Sandro's.
Creates a calendar invite for your girlfriend.

All set! Your Mateus Rose will be ready for pickup at 8pm, Sandro's at 8:30 on College St. and I've sent an invite to Ana.



Apple's advantage in AI is the App Store, far larger than any other platform. If Siri can operate those apps for you (and their published papers show us that's where they're headed) then it'll be far more capable than anything openAI has done.
Siri can barely turn on my lights so this will certainly be welcome.

Not holding my breath but if Siri has indeed bern overhauled, I’m fine waiting.

As always, don’t rush it Apple, quality matters. But keep in mind you’re already running late.
 
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I’m just a basic iPhone use nerd. Is there really any reason to care about AI integration? Outside some photo / video stuff. Which is about all the average user is going to do
 
Probably should have put more resources into Siri -- years ago -- instead of distractions like cars and VR headsets
I think we're thinking the same thing, Apple has millions upon millions of dollars in reserve. It's practically inconceivable of how many things they could be working on at one time. If they haven't been working on it it's because they didn't want to, not because they couldn't.

Bro ROFLMAO .. not at your or anyone using ios still, trust me I feel your angst!

You SHOULD care when!
- front page news on this site highlights changing icon colours; FREAKING ICON COLOURS! that's the highlight of wwdc 2024 that's accessible to customers day one or 1 week after??!!

If you see Craig pulling ANY cutsey winks or jokes you guys seriously need to smash em with tomatoes in the press cause this seriously is the final draw/straw for crap - and all these years no REAL work has been done to improve Siri - and if you come up with anything to counter this really people need to think WHAT of ANY OF IT does an executive deserve their exorbitant pay raise or any stick options of any kind for 5yrs before delivering anything NOT purchased or simple voice refininment.

If and IF Siri's become a SERIOUSLY important and powerful AI not simply in it's own right but the entire Industry like Knowledge Navigator promised, or like what Siri wowed us all upon initial introduction... then anything Ai related 1st step should be to kick out their lead on this that was hired from
I'd add any mentions of his flipp'n hair.
 
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User:
Siri, I'd like to have dinner with my girlfriend tonight at that place I walked by last week with the red umbrella. I took a photo of it.

This is SO FAR from anything Siri can do, I would just like it to not completely suck. It feels like incremental improvements have slowed or stopped for it for years.
 
Apple should just get rid of Siri entirely, until something far better comes out. It's a completely useless embarrassment.
 
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You all do know that John G. -- the guy responsible for Siri since about 2018 -- is now leading the AI charge. Not sure what KPIs he's had the last 6 years, but they DO NOT include consumer satisfaction with Siri. Apple really, really needs to evaluate its top-level team. They are pretty much all the same set of guys, doing the same thing year after year. Nice club though re: $$$$ if you can get into it.
 
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Your post would fit in with someone dismissing the internet as a 'fad' and not useful as it started being 'mainstream'.

Ai is here to stay, it's not a fad and is today useful, you have to be aware of it's limits and take caution, not believing every answer at face value.

AI will continue to improve and become more reliable. AI is somewhat a gold rush and a lot of software vendors think they need Ai to compete and will include any AI in their product, even if it doesn't add that much value.

However, the environment will consolidate as AI continues to mature and improve, removing hallucinations as time goes on.

AI isn't going anywhere, it's here to stay, and definitely not a fad, no matter what the naysayers think.
Yes… people SHOULD be aware of AI’s limits and take caution, not believing every answer at face value. But that’s not who we are as a society and as creatures, is it? The same warning could be applied to social media. But we have failed miserably at that, haven’t we? And the damage to our country and broader western society has been profound. AI will need stricter controls than “let the buyer beware.”
 
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I wonder where they're gonna source all those gigawatts for the LLM cloud. Solar, Wind, Nuclear.... Coal? The LLM revolution is dramatically increasing the energy demands of large providers and shattering climate goals. Let's see if Apple really cares as much about the planet as they say.
 
Apple can push stuff off for years. The fact is that Siri is inferior to every other assistant out there. It can barely tell you the day and time. So they are going to incorporate AI, that is a good thing. However, in 2025 it will likely already be too little too late. I recently have ditched all my Apple HomeKit stuff in favor of Alexa. I didn't want to do that, but I am tired of waiting on Apple to get Siri where it needs to be. I have had so many problems using voice activation that it is a joke in our home. Yet the same request for Alexa is handled without issue. No Alexa is far from perfect, but a hell of a lot better than Siri.
 
Exactly. When it comes to macOS, Craig Federighi's delivery record over the last few years is the Safari 15 debacle and u-Turn, Settings UI disaster, Stage Manager, UI iOSification, emojis, memojis, wallpapers and bugs. Oh so many bugs. It's incredible he still has a job at Apple.
Sonoma added one feature that I actually use: you can now make the list font in Finder bigger than 16px in accessibility settings. Yay!

Siri had a real moment, not just in the tech world, but in the cultural zeitgeist. They've really wasted it

The deal with openAI smells like panic. But I don't know if they have much of a choice. They have no hope of catching up. Even Google which has done much more in AI with deep mind was caught flat footed and making a hash of their search in reaction to openAI.

Nobody has solved the hallucination problem. Apple is going to have a real dilemma on their hand. On the one hand, they want to make a real leap with new look siri. On the other hand, they better be very conservative about how they use openAI because everything they do is heavily scrutinized and every misstep is magnified. Get ready for Siri-gate squared
 
It is a problem, but that's part of critical thinking. Just as we don't blindly trust whatever is online (or anywhere), we don't blindly trust LLM outputs. The issue is when people blindly trust and don't understand that LLMs can confabulate (make up) responses.

Indeed which is where my problem starts. We introduce a problem where we need to consider the cost of interpretation and verification of results from an LLM versus the cost of doing the research and verification at the same time yourself. Large problems in verification are usually obvious if you have a lot of domain knowledge, but smaller problems are not necessarily obvious and might be nuanced. Not only that, how you ask the question can bias it and that is highly likely if you have little domain knowledge.

Your second point refers to my original one which is that the market promotes the utility of an LLM but carefully hides the negatives.

I like to think of an LLM as my good friend Paul. He's a guy who knows a little about everything but virtually nothing about any specific subjects. Yet his ego is larger than his critical thinking ability and is bolstered by people around him who know very little in comparison to him. In fact he actively surrounds himself with them. In the presence of those people he seems authoritative and trustworthy and has an answer for everything. But in the presence of experts in narrow specialities, which some of us are, the holes are very obvious to the point of him manufacturing credible sounding bullcrap. That, as you can imagine, somewhat destroys his credibility. Of course everyone is telling you all the time how clever he is and how much he knows.

And that's how the LLM market works. Relying on ignorance of others.
 
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