More Claims of Unlocked 3G iPhones... Belgium, India, Australia?

[seedster2]

Can anyone answer this question.... Would apple make more money unlocking the phone and selling more... than keeping it locked and selling not nearly as much?????? The question seems pretty easy to answer but I was wondering if I am missing something???

Well, that's debatable because when someone unlocks an iphone apple is no longer obligated to support it. they make a good amount on the initial sale but also make money because theoretically it's one less device they have to warranty and update. It seems like a win win situation because they have sold a huge amount to areas that the phone isnt offered. AT&T hasn't pulled away from Verizon as expected with their exclusive.

I think Apple wins by continuing to sell the phone locked but hackable and only requiring activation through itunes. It's almost as if they say we want to scare you into AT&T service but if you're brave enough we'll sell to you to use on your own as well.

The phones will likely continue to be offered locked to networks. I think competing networks will just all have the iphone and they will have to compete on tarriffs to woo customers. Apple's profit sharing model doesn't have much leverage anymore.

 

[cheekybobcat]

Good: unlocked phones and choice!

Bad: Apple raising price on iPhone to keep same profits.

Good: Other companies making good, affordable phones that bite into Apple's sales to remind them that they are not alone in the game.

Competition is always healthy for consumers. It helps lower prices and force companies to create only the best they can. However, I don't really know any phone that can directly compete with the iPhone. Even the Nokia N95 doesn't at all compete with the iPhone in my book. The iPhone is incredibly responsive, has a great appearance, the screen is large and clear, and it's small. Until something with similar responsiveness comes out, I think the iPhone will control the market.

 

[Donnacha]

God, if only that would happen. I'm especially in favour of the part where the Telco's become nothing more than pipes. Then we'd see some REAL competition here in North America.

LOL, yeah. I actually went back and added a few more steps to complete my little fantasy.

But, you know, I think it could happen, ebay knows that their core business will get hit harder than most by the Bush depression and Skype has been an albatross around their necks. They've already downgraded it's value to $1.4 in their accounts but they need to bite the bullet, get rid of it and focus on their core business if they want to persuade investors that they have a clue.

The idea of iTunes subscriptions, especially if tied into a compelling calling package, is just about the only thing that will allow the music industry to hold back the tide of piracy and start making real money again. Nothing else will do it.

Apple traditionally steer clear of major investments but they have a lot of money in the bank right now and it would be hard for anyone to accuse them of extravagant spending if they paid $1 billion for something another industry giant once thought was worth $2.6. Also, Apple have got to be worried about the effect the economic slowdown will have on their sales of high-value goods. Both phone and music subscriptions, especially if they offer people genuinely good, ongoing value, would make their balance sheet a lot less susceptible to swings in consumer sentiment.

Can you imagine the Apple TV spots? Apple - talk to every person in the world, listen to every song!

Donnacha

 

[Consultant]

vast majority of 3g phones today have either the frequencies used in north america, or the frequencies used elsewhere. it's quite likely that this will be the case of 3g iphone as well. this would conviniently allow apple to sell the us version in different terms than the euro version.

not to mention that china are only launching their 3g for the olympics, and the version there is homegrown, ie incompatible with future iphone. (they'll implement compatible 3g network as well, but it will come later).

Wrong. Except in Japan and South Korea, 3G phones are multi-mode, which means it would operate on both 3G and other types of networks such as GSM.

Japan and South Korea are not the market for "vast majority of 3G phones."

 

[i.maverick]

1. Ebay offloads Skype to Apple at a bargain price of $1 billion (plus a symbolic number of shares to somewhat obscure the terrible, terrible mistake they made in buying it for $2.6 billion).

2. Skype's app, fully integrated into the iPhone's core phoning functionality, becomes the central plank of June's spectacular 3G + apps launch.

3. No longer able to justify charging it's telco partners outrageous amounts for exclusivity (because Skype will destroy any juicy long-distance profits the they might have hoped for), Apple embraces the open market at no price increase.

4. Instead, they will make more money from a $22 per month Unlimited International calling + an All-You-Can-Eat iTunes music subscription, decimating AmazonMP3 and all the other music download stores, solidifying iTunes' dominance.

5. Apple gives no other VOIP apps licenses to appear on the iPhone. Apple becomes a major provider of phone and video calls, while the telcos become big dumb pipes, competing tooth and nail to sell simple bandwidth at commodity prices.

6. Skype on the iPod Touch become a huge hit with people who are within Wi-Fi reception for most of the day, completely bypassing the telcos.

7. The spread of Wimax puts an ever increasing number of people within all-day Wi-Fi range ... and Apple collects it's winnings.


Think it won't happen? Just watch

Donnacha

u must have confused apple with the GREAT apple, or the fat white bearded man who makes no appearance till december

 

[crobi]

canada

AND C A N A D AAAAAAAAAA

 

[iTattoo]

AND C A N A D AAAAAAAAAA

I know someone who knows someone who knows someone that says .....

 

[quinney]

1. Ebay offloads Skype to Apple at a bargain price of $1 billion (plus a symbolic number of shares to somewhat obscure the terrible, terrible mistake they made in buying it for $2.6 billion).

2. Skype's app, fully integrated into the iPhone's core phoning functionality, becomes the central plank of June's spectacular 3G + apps launch.

3. No longer able to justify charging it's telco partners outrageous amounts for exclusivity (because Skype will destroy any juicy long-distance profits the they might have hoped for), Apple embraces the open market at no price increase.

4. Instead, they will make more money from a $22 per month Unlimited International calling + an All-You-Can-Eat iTunes music subscription, decimating AmazonMP3 and all the other music download stores, solidifying iTunes' dominance.

5. Apple gives no other VOIP apps licenses to appear on the iPhone. Apple becomes a major provider of phone and video calls, while the telcos become big dumb pipes, competing tooth and nail to sell simple bandwidth at commodity prices.

6. Skype on the iPod Touch become a huge hit with people who are within Wi-Fi reception for most of the day, completely bypassing the telcos.

7. The spread of Wimax puts an ever increasing number of people within all-day Wi-Fi range ... and Apple collects it's winnings.


Think it won't happen? Just watch

Donnacha

You might want to add a step where Apple adds a microphone to the iPod
Touch, making phone calls possible. Also add a step where AT&T sues
Apple for $25 billion for violating their exclusivity contract.

 

[slu]

I just hope this trend continues and follows over here in the US. I hate locked phones more than anything. The cell phone industry here is awful.

 

[Donnacha]

You might want to add a step where Apple adds a microphone to the iPod
Touch, making phone calls possible. Also add a step where AT&T sues
Apple for $25 billion for violating their exclusivity contract.

Good points, but how long is the exclusivity contract anyway?

Is it likely, in terms of competition law, that AT&T would have included a specific clause again VOIP?

My impression has been that Apple has been a lot shrewder than the telcos in those negotiations.

If these rumors from Italy, Belgium etc are true, they may well be test runs, leading to an open, Skype-driven model everywhere in the world except the original countries with the exclusivity agreements (that were so necessary to get the ball rolling in the first place - seeing the success in America was what made the iPhone credible internationally, but that success couldn't have happened without strong support from a major telco).

I suspect that adding a microphone to future models of the iPod Touch would not be hugely difficult.

 

[corrado7]

1. Ebay offloads Skype to Apple at a bargain price of $1 billion (plus a symbolic number of shares to somewhat obscure the terrible, terrible mistake they made in buying it for $2.6 billion).

2. Skype's app, fully integrated into the iPhone's core phoning functionality, becomes the central plank of June's spectacular 3G + apps launch.

3. No longer able to justify charging it's telco partners outrageous amounts for exclusivity (because Skype will destroy any juicy long-distance profits the they might have hoped for), Apple embraces the open market at no price increase.

4. Instead, they will make more money from a $22 per month Unlimited International calling + an All-You-Can-Eat iTunes music subscription, decimating AmazonMP3 and all the other music download stores, solidifying iTunes' dominance.

5. Apple gives no other VOIP apps licenses to appear on the iPhone. Apple becomes a major provider of phone and video calls, while the telcos become big dumb pipes, competing tooth and nail to sell simple bandwidth at commodity prices.

6. Skype on the iPod Touch become a huge hit with people who are within Wi-Fi reception for most of the day, completely bypassing the telcos.

7. The spread of Wimax puts an ever increasing number of people within all-day Wi-Fi range ... and Apple collects it's winnings.


Think it won't happen? Just watch

Donnacha

8. Pie in the sky

 

[Donnacha]

8. Pie in the sky

Yes.

But tasty pie

 

[jemo07]

Well, this was something that would come in the end.

EU is such a different market than in the US that this formula of revenue sharing quickly dried up is those markets most similar to the US.

In the EU, we are accustom to paying near nothing form a mobile device. This is why the RZor was a hit and the SmartPhone that preceded the Q was a flop in this market.
Also the extent for the wireless phone business is more mature in EU than the US. And I mean by that, penetration is EU 109% is much greater than the US 70%.
The fact that there is a clear fragmentation in coverage by region also made the locked phone less attractive for EU. In comparison is like having a local dominant player per each state, like the days of the babybells.

Now what probably will offset this for Apple in the revenue department is services model. They can clearly bring out exclusive services with each provider to differentiate each offering.

Another idea is that apple could be setting the seeds in place to become a virtual provider in the near future are these feature become a predominant feature from users.

The greater penetration on compatible 3g networks would allow ubiquitous services across regions, although Europeans are not as mobile as US customers are, meaning that there aren't as many users that cross state line like in the US.

The fact that Apple would (and has) hurt from out pricing itself would lead to believe that there would be a different model in the EU, one where locked phones/and features would be subsidized by each carrier. Unlocked phones would be accessible at a premium.

Now, these are just my observations and suppositions, but what we do know is that the iPhone has not had as great an impact in those markets where Apple expected to have the same acceptance like in the US. There are several reasons to that, including the lack of 3g (edge is too slow for real web navigation) the lack of GPS and push email, but still price was a major factor for the lack of growth in the US.

Let's hope to see a locked 16GB subsidized phone in the 300EUR range, a 32GB in the 600EUR range and unlocked phone in the 2x price range. It could be even lower if they expect to gain serious market share ASAP.

I can't wait though, I almost pulled the trigger and bought a 2g iPhone since I bought my iPod Touch!

JM

 

[Kelmon]

Finger's crossed for the iPhone in Belgium. Given that we seem to get hosed when it comes to phone prices here (I'm from the UK where it's normal to get a free phone with a contract) I dread what the price will be but the option to buy one will be nice.

 

[pagansoul]

You might want to add a step where Apple adds a microphone to the iPod
Touch, making phone calls possible. Also add a step where AT&T sues
Apple for $25 billion for violating their exclusivity contract.

I think Apple is a smart enough company to have an 'OUT' of the contract under certain terms. I don't think AT&T will be getting more switchers with un-locked phones being so prevalent. There is a point where sticking to your guns isn't worth it. Maybe without the contract Apple looses their % of all new subscriptions. AT&T gets to charge what the want w/2 year contract and apple only gets money from the sale of the phone. This way AT&T or who ever can give away an iphone with their subscription model, Apple doesn't care because they already sold the phone to the carrier. Service contracts will be worked out same way as a computer purchase.

 

[cnote678]

I really hope Verizon wakes up and adopts SIM cards for all their phones so that I can buy and use an iPhone! I HATE Verizon for being such a pain in my ass and me being stuck with a single-function , non-iPhone phone!

 

[Lycanthrope]

Finger's crossed for the iPhone in Belgium. Given that we seem to get hosed when it comes to phone prices here (I'm from the UK where it's normal to get a free phone with a contract) I dread what the price will be but the option to buy one will be nice.

You can blame the Belgian telecoms regulator for that, the BIPT. Telcos here are not allowed to subsidise handsets, it's against Belgian law. Otherwise believe me they would... On the plus side we have better quality carriers as a result, very strong and healthy competition between Proximus and Mobistar along with losely binding contracts.

 

[lamadude]

The iPhone is expected to be compatible with all Belgian operators, though is expected to launch on Mobistar first as early as May. The decision may have been forced upon Apple, however, as Belgium specifically prohibits the sale of "locked" mobile phones.

That doesn't make any sense, it's true that no locked phones are sold in Belgium but that also means that a phone cannot be "launched on Mobistar first" since it would be unlocked. Maybe what this could mean is that it would only be sold in Mobistar shops (that is, if the rumour is true of course)
(btw: Mobistar is part of the "Orange" group and in no way connected to movistar)

 

[crobi]

And what about the visual voice mail with all those operator??

 

[sjo]

Wrong. Except in Japan and South Korea, 3G phones are multi-mode, which means it would operate on both 3G and other types of networks such as GSM.

Japan and South Korea are not the market for "vast majority of 3G phones."

i was referring to frequencies the phones operate in, you're talking about network type. two different things.

generally different types of network can be implemented different frequencies. the 3g networks of att use 850/1900MHz, while in europe the frequency band used are around 2100. a "world" 3g phone would need to support 850/900/1700/1900/2100 bands, and there is very few (if any) such 3g phones.

this difference would make it possible for apple to deploy different models in different market areas.

 

[irun5k]

So will Apple now allow providers to subsidize the cost of the iPhone? For example, sign up with Acme Phone Service for 5 years and get a free iPhone?

Apple presumably has been opposed to this model because it devalues the device in the consumer's eyes. Consider how many people probably think that a recent Nokia or Motorola handset is "free" because they got one for "free." Well, anyone who thinks about it for a second should realize that nothing is free- this "free" phone is about as free as the "free" tank of gas that your dealer gives you when you buy a new $25,000 car.

 

[jpine]

If prices do go up for unlocked phones, though, we may see carriers competing more with their rates to attract customers, which will balance things out. At least in places other than the U.S. (sigh).

That would be wonderful. While the ATT price is great, everyone I know here in southern California has had problems with ATT service in general. I know my Verizon phone is the only one that works when I go to the mountains. Guess I'll have to wait until the exclusive thing expires.

 

[ruinfx]

what worries me is this...
if they release the iPhone like nokia does, would they start charging us for the updates?
like ipod touch?
because then they would have no compensatory commission coming their way.
or maybe they are thinking that 2.0 is it. like 10.5. and would only provide us with bug fixes. and whatever they have missing, the devs could take care of it using the SDK??
i think this is where apple's going now.

nokia's firmware updates are free.

i think it would be great if they sold the iphone unlocked in the US but something tells me AT&T wont let that happen.

 

[ruinfx]

You might want to add a step where Apple adds a microphone to the iPod
Touch, making phone calls possible. Also add a step where AT&T sues
Apple for $25 billion for violating their exclusivity contract.

does the exclusivity contract apply to ALL apple iphones, even future models (3G) or just the first gen?

also i saw a video on youtube of a kid making a call on his ipod touch using a microphone adapter he bought.

 

[GoodWatch]

It IS Mobistar. I'm from Belgium, I know it.

Ja: http://www.mobistar.be/LanguageIndex.html