Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

More Competition -- from Napster

I'm sure all of this news about competition has put a HUGE fire under Apple. It's just that more important they get the Windoze version done asap.

That could be a good thing to get them moving. I swear if I were Jobs I would have my developers working 24/7 to get iTunes for Windoze done.

Their whole future in the music biz is riding on it.
 
Worldwide iTMS

This is impossible. Artists have different deals in different countries with different labels at times. There are royalty payment issues, price issues (recordings are more expensive in Europe due to taxes). Pre-1954 recordings are now in the Public Domain in Europe while still copyrighted in the U.S. which complicates things. What we'll see is a slow roll out, country by country. Next will be Canada. iTunes music store started out with 200,000 songs (which they still advertise) not 250,000. Apple has a deal with the 5 major labels for one year. It is not "exclusive". Competition was inevitable. Napster may succeed but BuyMusic will be gone by next year.
 
iTMS for Windows: Licensing headaches

I seriously doubt that porting iTMS to Windows is a serious challenge for the able programmers. Gates and his ilk have been doing it for years.

It's simple: take a Mac program, slap on an ugly interface, throw in vague and ambiguous warning and error messages and program in some random crashes and freezes and voila! A Windows program!

Do any of you realize how much more liberal the terms are with iTMS than any of the competitors? Even so, only Americans have access. I'll bet that Jobs' difficulties with the record companies are the real hold-up in Apple's world domination of the online music realm!
 
I don't see why we're all hot and bothered about apple's windoze offerings. Why do we care? And why do we care what crappy alternatives with tighter DRM is available on the Windows platform? We already have the best music shopping solution available.

I feel lucky, not "scared".
 
International customers

One thing that seems to get lost in the discussion of Apple's seeming "failure" to support customers outside the US, is the issue of 'rights.' It was brought up a few comments back and what was said was correct. Apple has no ability to release this product to other countries until there are specific localized contracts in place. It is, however, true that one can buy CDs from the US, or, when visiting the US and take them home, thus making the argument for not being able to download the songs overseas extemely weak. It would seem that the sheer volume of downloads would vastly exceed the numbers of physical discs leaving the US and so the record companies have basically turned a blind eye to this. But is does show how absolutely dinosaur-like the RIAA and the recording companies are. Apple has offered them one (tremendous) solution to the problem of piracy and instead of really embracing it by supporting Apple's efforts wholeheartedly, they have given Apple "competition" that, I assume, they think is 'good' for the industry when in fact the dreadful implimentation of iTMS rip-offs may hurt the industry and Apple, if people's experience is soured by these other on-line music stores.
In any case, to the folks NOT in the US... you'll have to hang on there... but don't blame Apple! They are clearly having battles getting licensing deals going, so if you want to vent your anger, write your local recording companies and urge them to sign up with Apple– stat!
 
Re: Re: But!

Originally posted by arn
The problem is -- there are a lot of people who are used to their 'digital jukeboxes'.

Also - I'm not clear if iTunes will support Windows Media Files. If not, then any files you've bought off BuyMusic won't play.

arn
Click to expand...

I think iTunes for Windows will do more good than harm. Lots of windows users I run into want iTunes.


Lethal
 
Originally posted by arn
well - napster is under new ownership.

I think one big variable that will play a factor is -- will Napter's service require a software download? i think that may be a hurdle.

Much like iTunes for Windows may be a hurdle for people to download - vs.. just go to a website.

arn
Click to expand...

I don't think having to download software is a big deal. Like others have said, thousands have already downloaded P2P clients already. Getting music from BuyMusic.com just means you have to import the song into WMP. That means running two applications to download and then play your music. With iTunes, you can buy your music and put it in your library at the same time, using only one app. Much better, I think.

The two big issues with a new Napster are how well the site/software works, and how liberal the DRMs are. Music buyers are starting (hell, they have been for a while) to get pissed off at the recording industry for seemingly not bending with the times, and for getting in the way of users trying to do with their music what they like. BuyMusic.com has two (at least) HUGE strikes against it because a) it requires you to use only M$ products (Explorer and WMP), and b) because the DRMs are horrible. In my opinion, anyone who wants to compete with Apple is going to have to start thinking like Apple -- creating a user-friendly and well-integrated and thought out way to buy and download music. That means Apple already has a leg up. In addition, any music store for the Windows crowd is likely to run into the problem of being forced by the record labels to use WMP because it is a "good" way (for the RIAA) to wrap the music and thus heavily restrict what users can do with it. That's not a problem for Apple (or at least hasn't been with the Mac version of iTMS).

Now let's go Apple -- get out the Windows version of iTunes! And while you're at it, release the new PowerBooks.
 
I think that once Windows users see how easy to use iTMS is, they won't want to use another program.

I hope that Apple gets some more artists to sign on by then too.
 
iTMS was just a ruse to keep us happy for a while... Apple buying time for the "year of the laptop" debacle...

I really don't care about iTMS vs buymusic.com vs Napster vs WalMart and so on... Apple was first, and they will probably be overrun in the end, just like with everything else :(
 
Don't you guys understand that iTMS for Windows is probably done and sitting on a shelf somewhere in Cupertino? This isn't about finishing a program, it isn't about "lighting a fire" under Apple (which is no doubt painfully aware of what's going on) - it is simply a matter of waiting until the negotiations and legal work are finished. This is especially true outside the US, where the laws are different for *each* country (requiring the lawyers essentially to start from scratch).


The record companies hold all the cards, and they are no more interested in seeing Apple's model work than they would be interested in seeing success from a model with more restrictions. For them, fanning the flames of competition just makes sense.

elo
 
buycrap.com - not a threat. The former Napster with 500K songs - possible threat.

Does anyone know how many songs are at iTMS? Since the Apple store opened with 200k songs I would think they would be at 250k (at least) by now if not 300k. I know they added many songs after the first few weeks and then have been adding songs every week. I think the weeky songs added have been around 20-50 (again, at least it seam likes). It appears to me the number of songs could equate to the mhz myth on the computer side. "Oh Jonny, I use Napster because they have 500,000 songs." "I know Suzie, the iTMS might only have 200,000 songs but the interface and DRM is just so much better!"

Please Steve, release some new numbers before crap like this happens! Remove it from the equation as an excuse!
 
ugh its really getting me mad that everyone is copying Apple. But I guess thats how the world goes around and around...GRRR
 
Im not anti-Apple

Isn't bringing new players into the music download world a good thing?

I would think that the competition would help drive down the $.99 pricing. If Im trying to get new customers, Im not going to rely on my name, I would price my music to sell. Or invent other gimicks (e.g Buy one get one free kinda crap). Seems this may be a good thing.

like iEric, I hate it when other companies copy Apple though...

Just my $.02

JK
 
Originally posted by macnews
I know they added many songs after the first few weeks and then have been adding songs every week. I think the weeky songs added have been around 20-50 (again, at least it seam likes).
Click to expand...

You can see what's been added from week to week by clicking the "Just Added" link in the left column of iTMS front page. They're adding a lot more than 20-50 songs per week. Last week, it looks like they added songs from well over 200 albums (I got tired of counting).
 
You guys and your itune worries. Lets put this into context.

Who are the players in the online music biz?

Apple, Buy Music, Real and one other that I can't remeber. Out of these, which ones use the same format? Buy Music, Real and the other one. They use Microsoft's software. In all reality, they're all the same thing. None are better then the other. Its all the same just with a diiferent spin on advertising.

Even if new ones come along (Napster 2.0), they'll more than likely use MS's DRM. This is a problem because of the subscription that people will have to sign up for. MS is banking on subscriptions. I personally feel it will never work.

Apple on the other hand uses AAC(MP4). This allows freedom for downloading with ownership and no subscription.

The service that i can't name above, has failed. Its backed by all the major labels but still isn't a good service. Its uses MS's DRM. With all these new companies using the same technology, why do you think they'll magically make it?

Half of you guys are predicting the end of apple music when they don't even have competition. No other company offers what Apple does. They're on their own. No one even comes close.

The only way Apple Music won't make it, is for companies of mp3 players to NOT support AAC. Not everyone will be toting a ipod.

Come back in a year and see who's still standing. I bet it will be Apple and Microsoft. BuyMusic and Real won't be in the game. Since we haven't heard what format Napster is using, we can't rule them in or out. If Napster uses AAC, then the battle will be Apple vers. Napster.

Quote me...and come back in a year.
 
I don't know why everyone is whining as soon as competition comes up. To me, the iTMS is not about getting Apple money (Although it is nice), it's about the digital music revolution. It's about having music easily accesable at a fair price. It's about (in the future) indies finally being able to get the recognition that they deserve.

In my opinion, if Apple doesn't come out on top, that's ok because computer users as a whole will have something much better than what we had before Apple came around.

P-Worm
 
Originally posted by e-coli
I don't see why we're all hot and bothered about apple's windoze offerings. Why do we care? And why do we care what crappy alternatives with tighter DRM is available on the Windows platform? We already have the best music shopping solution available.

I feel lucky, not "scared".
Click to expand...


Simple. I highly doubt the number of Mac users out there is enough to keep iTMS afloat in the long run. Or if nothing else may keep record labels from having much if any interest in it. As much as any Mac user hates to have to admit it Apple NEEDS WINDOWS. It’s that whole 98% of the computer market thing. If Napster or some other company gets the right formula for a WINDOWS music store and gets a solid foothold in that market before Apple does they can kiss their music store goodbye. Don't kid yourself. Just because the first offering of a music store on the WINDOWS platform has overly restrictive DRM doesn't mean they all will. Someone will eventually get the right mix and make a formidable competitor to Apple.

The other question I have for Apple's iTMS offering for WINDOWS is if they are going to support other devices other then the iPod. If not then they just killed a potential group of customers. Heck I'm not sure who actually supports AAC other then the iPod and Sony I think. They better support on the fly music conversion (WMA? :eek: What other DRM file type is there?!!?) otherwise other then iPod users no one is going to bother.
 
Re: More Competition -- from Napster

Originally posted by Macrumors

The article notes that they are working on liberalizing usage rights for users -- but no final details are yet available. The new service does intend to provide some added flexibility -- with both subscription based as well as al la carte download services.
Click to expand...

"added flexability"

That means you may not have to buy a separate copy of the song for every PC you own. But you still will probably have to pay for more than three burns.

Really, none of these services are going to make it as long as they try to enforce Rapsody-like restrictions on the tracks. The RIAA has to learn they have to treat the music with about the same freedom they do normal CDs to get consumers to take it seriously.

It occured to me the other day, maybe we shouldn't be sending all these emails to buymusic.com telling them how they f***ed up their service. They may listen to us and improve it. Better to just let them blunder and die.
 
Re: Re: More Competition -- from Napster

Originally posted by SeaFox


It occured to me the other day, maybe we shouldn't be sending all these emails to buymusic.com telling them how they f***ed up their service. They may listen to us and improve it. Better to just let them blunder and die.
Click to expand...

The only thing they're likely to listen to is the bottom line. If they're selling tons of songs, I don't think there will be a lot of improvements. If they're selling less songs than Apple, they'll have to make some changes. But unless they can change the DRM and pricing, I don't think it will make much difference.

Have there been any press releases about how many songs BuyMusic has sold? You'd think if it was successful they'd be advertising "The No. 1 music site on the planet" or something like that.
 
Originally posted by Marble
In the immortal words of ambassador Kosh:

"and so it begins."
Click to expand...

Pff, get your sources right. Ambassador Kosh didn't say that, it was the Captain in The Simpsons! ;)

Anyway, I thought I'd point out one thing. People have been complaining about BuyMusic.com and how it forces you to use WMP and Explorer, which are Microsoft-made products. [NOTE: This does not constitute an endorsement of BuyMusic.com. My opinion of BuyMusic.com can be summed up in two words: "It sucks."]

But doesn't Apple do the same thing?... they force you to use iTunes. Many other music players haven't yet been upgraded to support AAC audio, either, so to even PLAY your music you often have to use iTunes. Probably more concerning is the fact that (I believe) this also forces you to use an iPod as your portable music player; as far as I know, the iPod is the only music player on the market to support AAC audio. Yes, you COULD burn your music to CD, rerip it in MP3 format, and then use another music player, but that is hardly convenient.

Now, granted, this isn't that big of a deal because iTunes rocks, has a great interface, it rocks, it has great features, it rocks, etc., etc., etc. Yes, I use iTunes all the time. :) The iPod also rocks, has a great interface, it rocks, it has great features, it rocks, etc., etc., etc (hee, I used the same line as I did for iTunes! :) ). Yes, I also use my iPod all the time. But that doesn't change the reality that Apple forces you to use iTunes to at least download your music, if not play it as well, and Apple forces you to use the iPod to play the music on the go.

Just a thought to consider.
 
Originally posted by macnews
buycrap.com - not a threat. The former Napster with 500K songs - possible threat.

Does anyone know how many songs are at iTMS? Since the Apple store opened with 200k songs I would think they would be at 250k (at least) by now if not 300k. I know they added many songs after the first few weeks and then have been adding songs every week. I think the weeky songs added have been around 20-50 (again, at least it seam likes). It appears to me the number of songs could equate to the mhz myth on the computer side. "Oh Jonny, I use Napster because they have 500,000 songs." "I know Suzie, the iTMS might only have 200,000 songs but the interface and DRM is just so much better!"

Please Steve, release some new numbers before crap like this happens! Remove it from the equation as an excuse!
Click to expand...

Clever observation. Apple probably doesn't want to be in that position. As great as it is to be revered by a few as the better service, they need to be selling lots.
 
As far as the Napster brandname being an asset, I just don't believe it. In fact, it could turn out to be a liability if people who are familiar with Napster go to the service expecting a "deal" and find that it is no better (and possibly worse) than other services.

In one way or another Microsoft will dominate the on-line music distribution business. WMA and __not__ AAC will become the standard delivery method. In a few years we'll have Microsoft controlling the vast majority of the market, Apple will have maybe five or ten percent, Napster will be gone (a money pit for Roxio), and the major music labels will begin their own direct, on-line music sales. Eventually, I suspect that the middle men will be eliminated and we'll buy our music either directly from the major labels __or__ directly from the artists themselves. Either way, Microsoft wins because they will control WMA and this will just serve to reinforce their domination over the world of computing devices.
 
Not necessarily

The bad guys don't always win.

Sure, a lot of people are going to go for wma because they don't know there is a choice besides Microsoft.

However, the iPod is gaining in popularity. It is the best out there. Just like iTunes is the best, and iTMS is the best.

Quicktime for Windows and iT for Windows will start making a major play against the wma format, because people will be able to see a quality difference. People who have macs and pcs will want and expect the same great quality on their pcs as on their macs. They will convert their pcs friends to using iTMS and iTfW, and the iPod.

Apple is still poised to revolutionize the Windows platform as well, because *still* it is the only one to offer *ownership* and the 5 major labels. Also, MP4 technology in the AAC format *is* superior encoding to MP3, thus from same quality source, the AAC sounds noticably clearer.

Apple is not going to play the "We've got more songs than you" game just to have higher numbers. Apple will wait until it is able to deliver on a vastly higher number, then announce. And it will be correct, not made up or make believe.

Apple has the best technology and quality on all fronts, and the only reason people will stay with any other option, is that they don't know what options are out there. Those that compare the services will find the best deals and service with Apple.

Jaedreth
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back