More Details on Apple's Intel Mac

[iBunny]

You mac guys are all freaking out. I wish everyone was a PC enthusiast / overclocking to understand some basic knowledge of hardware.

Listen just because this dev kit ships with integrated graphics dosent mean this is what you are going to get. Why did this ship with crappy intel integrated graphics? Because you dont need a 400$ GeForce to pull up some lines of code and code programs....

And As long as their are PC enthusiasts like myself out there, we will find a way to run a OSX x86 version on a good ol PC. Even if we have to create a Bios for our motherboards that will allow us to. There are alot of people in the Hardware Motherboard communiny that create custom bios' for extra option for tweaking and overclocking. You best beleive that it is only a matter of time till we get it working on a PC. I cant wait. w00t. This does not mean that it will be legal for Dell and OEMs to sell OSX with their PC's. But us Enthusiasts always bend the rules of computing, thats what we are here for

 

[Hugh]

Missing the point.

Why on earth would Apple spend extra on the video card in a freaking temporary loaner meant to tide developers over until the real Intel Macs ship?

I think lot of people missed that point in this thread. Some people are acting like this is the Mac you go down to your Apple Store and buy right now.

This is a DEV machine folks. Go watch the keynote, and LISTEN to what Steve says about this machine, somehwere you must of missed it.

-Hugh

 

[paulypants]

You mac guys are all freaking out. I wish everyone was a PC enthusiast / overclocking to understand some basic knowledge of hardware.

Listen just because this dev kit ships with integrated graphics dosent mean this is what you are going to get. Why did this ship with crappy intel integrated graphics? Because you dont need a 400$ GeForce to pull up some lines of code and code programs....

And As long as their are PC enthusiasts like myself out there, we will find a way to run a OSX x86 version on a good ol PC. Even if we have to create a Bios for our motherboards that will allow us to. There are alot of people in the Hardware Motherboard communiny that create custom bios' for extra option for tweaking and overclocking. You best beleive that it is only a matter of time till we get it working on a PC. I cant wait. w00t. This does not mean that it will be legal for Dell and OEMs to sell OSX with their PC's. But us Enthusiasts always bend the rules of computing, thats what we are here for

Illegally bend the rules so you can get what you want. Childish. Most of you people had a silver spoon in your mouth since you were born so you're not used to NOT getting what you want. People like you delusionally think you are making a statement for the end user when all you're doing is making it more difficult for honest ethical people to use hardware and software they legitimately paid for because companies are trying to protect themselves from selfish spoiled brats like yourselves. We end up paying more and jumping through more hoops so you people can "buck the system". You are truely a rebel!

 

[dicklacara]

Ya' know it is interesting how these pictures/specs/benchmarks have surfaced on boxes that won't be delivered for 2 weeks...

There's a whole bunch of 'em available at the WWDC this week.

Yeah, and the 500 Apple engineers were there to open the boxes, take pictures, run benchmarks, hand out specs...

 

[aussie_geek]

Wow!!

There seems to be heaps of room inside that box. Maybe the next generation PowerMac's will be a little smaller.... I didn't notice and PCI / AGP cards in there....


aussie_geek

 

[bishopduke]

!

 

[Sun Baked]

Here's a bit more...

Originally posted by John:
On the topic of the dreaded BIOS, here's an encouraging post by Dean Reece of Apple:

We realize there are lots of folks that need to know what is going to be in the ROMs on these new machines, and what partition scheme will be used. Unfortunately, we are not yet in a position to make that information available, but we will communicate it as soon as we reasonably can. Don't assume that what you see in the transition boxes represents what will be present in the final product.

[...]

The general consensus I've heard from other developers is:
1) They don't want us to use BIOS
2) If they haven't heard of EFI, they want us to use OF
3) If they have heard of EFI, they want us to use EFI

This is not a statement about what Apple will use, just what I've heard from developers that have an opinion on the subject.

Hang in there...
- Dean

 

[parrothead]

Please tell me that Mac isn't moving towards integrated graphics. Ahh another way to charge extra for the dedicated graphics card.

 

[dicklacara]

What would have been more interesting to see is FCP or FCE running on it. Screw iApps. The iApps are already fast as it is. The people who are looking for the fastest systems are those who are in NEED of it with their pro apps. It would have been cool to see FCP/E running NOW on a 3.6Ghz Macintel (I really like that name. Please don't stone me. )

Yes, that would have been interesting...

I suspect that if they had looked good on Rosetta, you would have seen them...

But, I suspect that the Pro apps are being reworked to be XGrid-enabled, first. This will allow their CPU-Intensive tasks to be parceled among any available boxes. That may entail a major architectural change to the Pro apps... better rework, then port.

 

[tech4all]

Yes I know a lot of people have posted this already but,

- Presently uses the Intel GMA 900 integrated graphics chip set which supports Quartz Extreme.
- Regular video cards will be supported, but need drivers

I really hope Macs don't start having shared video ram and making regular graphics as an option only

 

[RndmAxess]

Deleted

 

[zen.state]

I am not so sure you'll see OSX running out of the box on your new DELL....I'd bet you will find that the OS is Bios locked to onlly run on APPLE bios systems....All of the large MS OEM's do this today....

you are exactly right. apple even openly said to the press that osx will not boot on non apple pc's. osx is still going to only run on apple computers.

 

[steeldrivingjon]

I really hope Macs don't start having shared video ram and making regular graphics as an option only

GAAAHH!

It's just a developer's box!

It's meant to be cheap! That's all it means!

Sheesh, people! Why would they put anything else in a loaner! What point would there be in spending $300 on fancy graphics that most developers won't need?

THINK, PEOPLE!

 

[bit density]

osx isn't native to macs anymore....this all just sucks!!

Ok, why? Apple will make the best most supported box. Every one is free to choose the box they like best, you know like an X41 or one of those sexy vaio boxes. And Apple wins.

Why does this suck? Xenophobic?

 

[Don't panic]

Please tell me that Mac isn't moving towards integrated graphics. Ahh another way to charge extra for the dedicated graphics card.

Mac isn't moving towards integrated graphics.

feel better now?

 

[bit density]

Please tell me. How is OSX on intel more prone to viruses than OSX on PPC?

I'd love to figure out the reasoning here.

Because buffer overflows and how they behave are chip specific. They are well understood by the hacker community on x86, and not nearly as well understood on PPC.

There *is* a vector as well. Mac owners tend to know other mac owners, and they all tend to use Address Book and Mail.app and Mac owners are overly trusting at this point. This provides the infection vector

 

[bit density]

After reading the article, my bet is that Apple will put their own Open Firmware chip in place of the Phoenix BIOS, used in the developer machines, on the final Mactel products.

This way they will be able to limit Mactel products being able to run Mac OS X while at the same time, being able to boot into Windows.

Additionally, the OF will allow for a more Mac experience.

Sushi

And then only hackers an pirates can run OSx on wintel boxes. How does this support Apple and it's developers? Don't you want as large an audience as possible for your developers?

 

[tech4all]

GAAAHH!

It's just a developer's box!

It's meant to be cheap! That's all it means!

Sheesh, people! Why would they put anything else in a loaner! What point would there be in spending $300 on fancy graphics that most developers won't need?

THINK, PEOPLE!

Oh those specs are just for the Delvepors' systems that cost $999? If so that's a big relief.

 

[abluesky]

Because buffer overflows and how they behave are chip specific. They are well understood by the hacker community on x86, and not nearly as well understood on PPC.

There *is* a vector as well. Mac owners tend to know other mac owners, and they all tend to use Address Book and Mail.app and Mac owners are overly trusting at this point. This provides the infection vector

New Intel chips, including the Pentium 4 660 - which is in the development Mac, feature the Execute Disable Bit. The Execute Disable Bit addresses buffer overflow exploits.

Cheers!

 

[outerspaceapple]

why anyone would actually want windows running on their mac is beyond me.. dual boot? no way. How many people on this board would want to install XP onto their G5???

First off its not a G5, its a P4, and secondly...

I WOULD! Dude, are you not a gamer? windows games get such higher FPS than mac games its not even funny. Thankfully though, we won't have to do this since darwine (http://darwine.opendarwin.org//) will let us run those windows apps seamlessly on our Mac OS X GUI's.

 

[bit density]

For everyone complaining, calm down. This is a developer kit. The point for this system is for developers to be able to port their apps. This is NOT a system for consumers!

This is a $999 computer - Apple is going to do their best in order to keep costs as low as possible. When Apple actually ships the REAL Intel-based Macs, they will be designed from the ground up - like the Macs of today are.

Integrated graphics - It's CHEAP to use (that's the point)

No snazzy new case - It's CHEAP to use what you've got, rather than redesign a new case for a VERY limited production run and a small number of customers.

No Open Firmware - See above note; This is temporary.

I guess there is a reason that Apple doesn't want this stuff leaked: everyone panics as if this were a product for mass sale.
Calm down. When Apple releases their REAL products, I expect them to be as elegant and well designed (or better) as they are now.

Final note: This is NOT a shipping product!!

dude, calm down. The point is that look inside the box. The PC computer is taking up what 25% of the space of a g5, and probably runs cooler. That is COOL! Yes, there will be really nice Apple Boxes. We all get that. But there is no reason why they can't be "standard wintel" boxes either. Closing the system costs money, won't work, and worse keeps the market share down and the money down for Apple.

Apple will have the best and cheapest solutions for OSX. But there is absolutely no reason to try and prevent somebody from installing on a standard wintel box. Other than to poke out your eye to spite your face.

 

[ruud]

New Intel chips, including the Pentium 4 660 - which is in the development Mac, feature the Execute Disable Bit. The Execute Disable Bit addresses buffer overflow exploits.

It does not completely eliminate them, though (which would be virtually impossible).
Also do note that one of the vulnerabilities addressed by today's security update was a buffer overflow...

 

[rlreif]

Illegally bend the rules so you can get what you want. Childish. Most of you people had a silver spoon in your mouth since you were born so you're not used to NOT getting what you want. People like you delusionally think you are making a statement for the end user when all you're doing is making it more difficult for honest ethical people to use hardware and software they legitimately paid for because companies are trying to protect themselves from selfish spoiled brats like yourselves. We end up paying more and jumping through more hoops so you people can "buck the system". You are truely a rebel!

get off your high horse.
i bet you have never done anthing against the rules to benefit yourself... never downloaded an mp3, never shot off illegal fireworks, never smoked a joint in your life, never had a drink before your legal drinking age, never crossed the street against a dont walk sign... give me a break

maybe you really are a blind sheep that only does what he is supposed to no matter what, without thinking

 

[jjs1138]

the more things change the more they stay the same...

Well, I've been thinking about this a lot over the last week. My bet is, that in the end, the only similarities between an Intel based Mac and a wintel box will be that they both run on an Intel chip. I expect both the OS and the hardware to be as distinctively different as they are now.

 

[bit density]

This FUD has to stop. Viruses do not target a processor architecture. They target an operating system, or particular applications running on that operating system. How many viruses does Linux running on Intel suffer from? How are Windows viruses and malware, which specifically target weaknesses in the Windows networking code, security code, Internet Explorer bugs, etc going to magically start executing on Mac OS X systems?

Taking advantage of buffer overflows *are* processor specific. The error has and does occur in linux. And have happened in OSX code. They are less well understood on PPC, but extremely well understood on x86.

And there is a vector on Macs similar to Windows that is way less true on Linux systems. Mac owners know mac owners. And mac owners tend to use Address Book and Mail App, and there is the universal virus machine in Applescript and Automator. Everything you need for a mac virus. It's coming and OSxi will make it easier.