More Details on Apple's Intel Mac

[steeldrivingjon]

Warp back to the early 80's

Imagine MacRumors back in the early 80's.....


"OMFG! The Mac developer machine is a Lisa! If we wanted Lisas we would have bought Lisas! Sheesh! I thought the Macintosh was going to be something new!"

"The screen is black and white just like the Lisa! Does that mean we're never going to get color graphics! OMFG! This sucks!"

"Did you see the developer machine? It's a Lisa! That thing is so big and clunky! The Macintosh is going to suck ! I want a compact machine!"

"How are we going to afford to buy these "Macintoshes" if they're so expensive! Look at how much a Lisa costs! Are Macintoshes going to be that expensive? I bet they are!"



Get a grip, people. Just like the Lisa's used to do early development for Mac OS, just like the Sun 68K workstations used to do early development for the NeXT, the development machine just needs to work like the Intel Mac. It is *not* the Intel Mac that will be on sale at your local Apple Store next year.

Maybe Apple should have used something with wires hanging out and duct tape on the case, instead of a PC motherboard in a G5 chassis.

 

[abluesky]

Possible, but BTX is a form factor, not a chipset, its set to "replace" ATx on the desktop pc market, but i dont see it happening any time soon.
And google seems to suggest the 945G is available in a BTX form factor.
And they were designed for none other than DELL! oh the irony.

I think it is the board I posted in my previous post (updated the post).

http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/tp/

compare the pic to the pic of the board in this pic...
http://www.powerpage.org/cgi-bin/WebObjects/powerpage.woa/wa/story?newsID=14643

Looks pretty close to me...

 

[tdar]

OMG you whining idiots need a reality check. Apple has clearly stated that they WILL NOT ALLOW OS X to run on any PC's other than those sold by Apple. Dell owners will not be able to buy and install OS X on their boxes.

Get a freaking grip. Stop your bitching, and take a deep breath so the blood can flow back in to your brain.

Brian's right here.....In the end PC's will be PC's and run Windows.....Mac's wil be Mac's and run OSX......they will not meet in the middle....

 

[Nutter]

Does anyone have any idea what Apple has built into this development Mac to stop the version of OS X that runs on it installing on any PC?

People seem to be talking about this issue as if it's something that Apple will have to work out in the future, but it isn't ... Apple must have dealt with this already, as it's only a matter of time before OS X for Macintel is leaked.

 

[dicklacara]

These are NOT stock MB's..I've built a lot of PC's and I've never seen a fan built into the MB..Look at the CPU..there's no heat sink or fan on it.

look here:
http://www.powerpage.org/cgi-bin/WebObjects/powerpage.woa/wa/story?newsID=14643

Look at the 3rd pic down.It clearly shows a PCI card in a PCI slot.
If it isnt a graphics card what is it?

Ya' know it is interesting how these pictures/specs/benchmarks have surfaced on boxes that won't be delivered for 2 weeks...

 

[MacFan25863]

Why on earth would Apple spend extra on the video card in a freaking temporary loaner meant to tide developers over until the real Intel Macs ship?

If you read the rest of the thread, you would see that the concern is not about the dev boxes but that by using stock Intel mobos in future computers opens the possibility for intergrated graphics and shared ram.

 

[Peace]

At least I get to brush up on my PC designs! I'm gonna get one of them thar things..

 

[steeldrivingjon]

I wonder if apple can sell an X86 for the same markup as they have now...sgi couldn't

SGI was selling NT boxes, or Linux boxes. The SGI-specific advantages were pretty esoteric. They were pretty much selling clone graphic workstations. The hardware might be extra-special, but that's not the easies thing to sell.

Apple, at least, will have a well-regarded consumer operating system to use as bait.

That strikes me as a rather different situation.

 

[Quixcube]

Speaking of the Xserve

Do you think they will go Xeon?

 

[1984]

Thanks!

Integrated graphics suck..

I'm wondering why this dev kit is starting to look so outdated compared to Macs.

Because it's a cheap and quick way to get them into the hands of developers. The Apple-Intel Macs will be very much as Macs are are now. They aren't going to look like this though the prospects of a smaller PowerMac seem good. It really shows just how ridiculous the heat issues are with the G5.

As far as integrated graphics go you might see it as standard on an entry-level PowerMac but you'll have your choice of a PCI Express video card too. They might use integrated graphics on the iBook and Mac mini but certainly not the PowerBook. Not sure about the iMac. I would hope not.

 

[ailleur]

Or, you could read the BTX design guide (warning: 4mb), in which it becomes clear this isn't a BTX design at all. Note the memory at 90 degrees to natural airflow. It's an upside-down ATX.

This is not to say new ones won't be BTX -- but there's enough FUD in this thread already.

If you look at this design, it pretty much matches the mobo of the alledged intel-mac thats floating around, minus the positionning of the pci slots.
You can see the placement of the ide connectors which are next to the memory on the picture and which isnt common of atx mobos.
ANyway im not saying it is or isnt, but im not discarding it completly.

Its not like it matters anyway, doesnt change much.

 

[tdar]

Does anyone have any idea what Apple has built into this development Mac to stop the version of OS X that runs on it installing on any PC?

People seem to be talking about this issue as if it's something that Apple will have to work out in the future, but it isn't ... Apple must have dealt with this already, as it's only a matter of time before OS X for Macintel is leaked.

They may have...and the kits that will be shipping in 2 weeks may be different ...Plus we don't know what is in that code to be able to track it....I'd think twice about leaking it if I got one from Apple....that said if I find it on any newsgroup...I'll be downloading.....

 

[tdar]

Do you think they will go Xeon?

YES!!!!! It has too ...it's the only Dual CPU version of the P4

 

[ruud]

Ya' know it is interesting how these pictures/specs/benchmarks have surfaced on boxes that won't be delivered for 2 weeks...

There's a whole bunch of 'em available at the WWDC this week.

 

[sw1tcher]

i've said it before and i'll say it again, this is the worst decision ever for apple. they will be making pc's and as said, won't be very mac like except for the box. osx isn't native to macs anymore....this all just sucks!!

OS X was never native to Macs. It has from day one been a proc. independent OS. That's what's so beautiful about it. Jobs even told us that OS X had been living a double life, running on both PPC and Intel for the past 5 years.

 

[jkieffer72]

OMG you whining idiots need a reality check. Apple has clearly stated that they WILL NOT ALLOW OS X to run on any PC's other than those sold by Apple. Dell owners will not be able to buy and install OS X on their boxes.

Get a freaking grip. Stop your bitching, and take a deep breath so the blood can flow back in to your brain.

What makes you so sure they won't change their mind???

With all the positive press of the Mac Mini as a cross-over for those interested in switching to get away from Virus and Spyware problems, it seems only natural that Apple would make it possible to run OSX on just about any x86 hardware.

I can see Apple capturing a significant share of the PC market by doing this. I think enough people are tired of the insecurity of windows they just might be able to make a go of it.

Apple should market OSX86 as an "Anti-Virus / Anti-Spyware" product. People already are willing (forced?) to spend the purchase price of OSX for those products; why not get a whole OS for the same price!

I don't know the numbers, but what kind of profit could Apple make if only say 10%-20% of current windows users bought OSX86?? I'd almost be willing to bet that number would be than the profit they made selling Mac hardware last year... (Ok, let's not talk about the 20% of windows user that would pirate it... but that's another issue...)

I'm sure Steve & Co have already considered this option; perhaps they have just decided now is not (quite yet) the time.

I can't believe it will take them very long to get x86 based machines into production. I think they could do it before Christmas if they wanted to. Perhaps they just need to sell off the PPC hardware they have already committed to produce first...

just my .02...

 

[apple_intel]

Does anyone have any idea what Apple has built into this development Mac to stop the version of OS X that runs on it installing on any PC?

People seem to be talking about this issue as if it's something that Apple will have to work out in the future, but it isn't ... Apple must have dealt with this already, as it's only a matter of time before OS X for Macintel is leaked.

And how would they get it onto another PC without an install/distribution DVD?

 

[sw1tcher]

Yeah, but they still may put intergrated graphics in iMacs, eMacs, and Mac Minis. I don't want to have to buy a graphics card for a brand new computer.

Yeah. That's as bad as having to upgrade the RAM for a brand new computer.

 

[brap]

If you look at this design, it pretty much matches the mobo of the alledged intel-mac thats floating around, minus the positionning of the pci slots.

Ah, I see where you're coming from here.

But -- when installed, whether attached to the left, or inverted on the right panel of the case, the airflow would still be straight-through, front-to-rear. For the memory to be at the angle shown in the alleged dev box, the external connectors would have to either be poking out of the top, or bottom of the case!

Not an elegant description, but it'll do

We do agree on how pointless it is describing the form factor of a 'maybe' prototype from an unverified source.

 

[steeldrivingjon]

If you read the rest of the thread, you would see that the concern is not about the dev boxes but that by using stock Intel mobos in future computers opens the possibility for intergrated graphics and shared ram.

Only if you think the loaner dev box is any kind of good indication of what the final hardware will be like a year from now.

I guarantee, the configuration of the dev boxes is the way it is for low cost and convenience.

Apple doesn't want to spend a lot of time setting these things up. As such, the best thing for them to do is to use an integrated system that requires minimal setup apart from mounting it in a G5 case and wiring it up.

It would make no sense wasting time installing this or that high-performance video card, and incurring the extra cost, especially when developers who actually need rockin' video cards will be able to install those themselves as soon as drivers are available, and the whole box has to go back in a year anyway.

Sure, it's *conceivable* that Apple could use integrated graphics. It's also *conceivable* that Apple could build the Intel Macs with CGA graphics from 1989. But rather unlikely.

These are disposable temporary Macs, and no conclusions should be drawn from them about what will be used in the Macs that Apple will sell.

 

[dicklacara]

Yes. Exactly. They are dev kits. Which means they are blueprints (targets)
for the developers to develop for. Once you do that, you don't go
and make radical changes in the shipping models. *This* is the problem.
The final macs will have to be similar/compatible to the dev kits.

Where does it say that Apple won't be able to upgrade/replace these transition boxes (over the next 18 months) as Apple's real configurations solidify....

Of course, someone will bitch that the anemic upgrades (to the transition boxes) aren't as good as the Imagintron 94-bit CPU being [wet] dreamed about by the designers over at...

... it has this new IF-gate architecture that switches 1 pico-second before it receives the command...

...you give it the answer & it determines the equation...

The goal here is to recompile for the x86 architecture... not to optimize for any one processor, graphics chipset, or any other specific component of this quick/cheap/simple development box. And firmware certainly has little to do with a platform recompile, as far as I know... it merely controls the booting.

Exactly!

 

[Moonlight]

Here is a good article for everyone who is scared....

http://arstechnica.com/columns/mac/mac-20050607.ars

 

[MaCaDDiCT21]

The thing is absoluatly hideous. However, im sure thats not what us end-users will see. At this stage, they just want to run the dang thing, not work on making it attractive...

It sure sounds powerful though...

 

[macmax77]

I am just so sad that quite possibly this will be my next computer

 

[tdar]

Only if you think the loaner dev box is any kind of good indication of what the final hardware will be like a year from now.

I guarantee, the configuration of the dev boxes is the way it is for low cost and convenience.

Apple doesn't want to spend a lot of time setting these things up. As such, the best thing for them to do is to use an integrated system that requires minimal setup apart from mounting it in a G5 case and wiring it up.

It would make no sense wasting time installing this or that high-performance video card, and incurring the extra cost, especially when developers who actually need rockin' video cards will be able to install those themselves as soon as drivers are available, and the whole box has to go back in a year anyway.

Sure, it's *conceivable* that Apple could use integrated graphics. It's also *conceivable* that Apple could build the Intel Macs with CGA graphics from 1989. But rather unlikely.

These are disposable temporary Macs, and no conclusions should be drawn from them about what will be used in the Macs that Apple will sell.

OK this is simple.....Intel Includes 900X graphics in their chipset...if you do not need very fact accerated graphics you use it...some of the Mac will do that...The Mini comes to mind.....The Ibook too....But Intel also leaves you the choice to put a card into the very fast PCI Express slot and have FAST graphics....it's the best of both worlds....You can bet that Power Macs will have cards in their PCI EX slots.....