mj_1903 said:
There will be NO OF on the new Mac's. Apple said it. The developer boxes
have BIOS, the new Mac's will probably have BIOS or something BIOS-compatible.
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More Details on Apple's Intel Mac
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There will be NO OF on the new Mac's. Apple said it. The developer boxes
have BIOS, the new Mac's will probably have BIOS or something BIOS-compatible.
As far as integrated graphics on the dev machine.I question this.Look at the pics posted and you will see a PCI card in a PCI slot.That's a graphics card folks.
I'm curious if the new Mactel platform will support one of my favorite features, that of target disk mode. Will the various keystroke combos that can be used at boot be the same? That is to say, will I need to learn a new skillset to effectively use the mactel?
No.. i realize apple is a company, but i just don't like viruses, so the market may flop if they go about this approach, so m$ has the time to make its system more protected as apple has been able to dostcanard said:
im not framiliar with BeOS.. i will check it out though. i just love mac os x so much (as i am sure we all do)
why anyone would actually want windows running on their mac is beyond me.. dual boot? no way. How many people on this board would want to install XP onto their G5???
i'm cautious
after 10+ years at work & home with everything from proprietary unix boxes to linux and windows at home I recently switched to macs at home because I dont want to fool with the damn things. First off I noticed the boot up was expected not wondering if it will like on pcs I've always expected a hpux,sgi,sun,mac to boot....with pcs you never know if the damn cheap things will even make it though post, 2nd ram management is worlds better than the windows crap.... i always put my powerbook in sleep and its the first laptop i've ever had that 'just works' sleep, wifi all seamless and immedite with no guessing if it will work when i open it up. I can minimize an app in the dock for a week and it opens instantaneously...windows you can minimize and have a gig of ram and 5 seconds later its swapping like there is no tomorrow. windows boot and sleep and wifi and wireless deviced and everything else was always a throw of the dice if they would come back on again.
I like the current hardware. Also hope they keep it apple...not have OSX become a giant trash can every device and driver in the world like winblows.
thats just a mac newbies view of things...
after 10+ years at work & home with everything from proprietary unix boxes to linux and windows at home I recently switched to macs at home because I dont want to fool with the damn things. First off I noticed the boot up was expected not wondering if it will like on pcs I've always expected a hpux,sgi,sun,mac to boot....with pcs you never know if the damn cheap things will even make it though post, 2nd ram management is worlds better than the windows crap.... i always put my powerbook in sleep and its the first laptop i've ever had that 'just works' sleep, wifi all seamless and immedite with no guessing if it will work when i open it up. I can minimize an app in the dock for a week and it opens instantaneously...windows you can minimize and have a gig of ram and 5 seconds later its swapping like there is no tomorrow. windows boot and sleep and wifi and wireless deviced and everything else was always a throw of the dice if they would come back on again.
I like the current hardware. Also hope they keep it apple...not have OSX become a giant trash can every device and driver in the world like winblows.
thats just a mac newbies view of things...
Chill people
Everyone take their pills please. These are dev kits, NOT shipping systems! We are talking about stock Intel mobos bolted into PowerMac boxes, strictly for the purpose of testing apps under development.
Frankly my only gripe thus far is BIOS, but I would bet the shipping systems will either not have BIOS or it will be buried from view. Jobs won't let us look at BIOS on boot
.
Everyone take their pills please. These are dev kits, NOT shipping systems! We are talking about stock Intel mobos bolted into PowerMac boxes, strictly for the purpose of testing apps under development.
Frankly my only gripe thus far is BIOS, but I would bet the shipping systems will either not have BIOS or it will be buried from view. Jobs won't let us look at BIOS on boot
.
Peace said:
The post says they are intergrated. If, and only if, Intel mobos are used in production models is the change for Intel graphics in Apple boxes, something I don't want, and I'm sure many others don't want either.
benja55 said:Everyone take their pills please. These are dev kits, NOT shipping systems! We are talking about stock Intel mobos bolted into PowerMac boxes, strictly for the purpose of testing apps under development.
Frankly my only gripe thus far is BIOS, but I would bet the shipping systems will either not have BIOS or it will be buried from view. Jobs won't let us look at BIOS on boot
These are NOT stock MB's..I've built a lot of PC's and I've never seen a fan built into the MB..Look at the CPU..there's no heat sink or fan on it.
look here:
http://www.powerpage.org/cgi-bin/WebObjects/powerpage.woa/wa/story?newsID=14643
Look at the 3rd pic down.It clearly shows a PCI card in a PCI slot.
If it isnt a graphics card what is it?
I'm officially stopping my religious reading of MR comment threads for awhile while the Intel dust settles.
People need to calm down, be patient, realize the timing involved in what's happening, and maintain the faith in Apple's philosophies they've held on to so long. It's a new chip, not a new business model. It's a new chip, not a new Cheif Industrial Designer. It's a new chip, not a new CEO with a weaker vision, weaker talent, or weaker love for what makes a Mac a Mac.
Just chill... this'll be lots of fun.
People need to calm down, be patient, realize the timing involved in what's happening, and maintain the faith in Apple's philosophies they've held on to so long. It's a new chip, not a new business model. It's a new chip, not a new Cheif Industrial Designer. It's a new chip, not a new CEO with a weaker vision, weaker talent, or weaker love for what makes a Mac a Mac.
Just chill... this'll be lots of fun.
benja55 said:Everyone take their pills please. These are dev kits, NOT shipping systems! We are talking about stock Intel mobos bolted into PowerMac boxes, strictly for the purpose of testing apps under development.
Frankly my only gripe thus far is BIOS, but I would bet the shipping systems will either not have BIOS or it will be buried from view. Jobs won't let us look at BIOS on boot
Yes. Exactly. They are dev kits. Which means they are blueprints (targets)
for the developers to develop for. Once you do that, you don't go
and make radical changes in the shipping models. *This* is the problem.
The final macs will have to be similar/compatible to the dev kits.
benja55 said:Everyone take their pills please. These are dev kits, NOT shipping systems! We are talking about stock Intel mobos bolted into PowerMac boxes, strictly for the purpose of testing apps under development.
Frankly my only gripe thus far is BIOS, but I would bet the shipping systems will either not have BIOS or it will be buried from view. Jobs won't let us look at BIOS on boot
Various Dells and IBMs I have used have had their BIOS startup screen hidden from view for many, many years. Instead you see a Dell or an IBM logo. Even motherboards targeted at enthusiasts and DIY system builders have had the option of loading in a custom BIOS startup graphic for years. Not that I'm saying that I believe Apple will use a traditional BIOS in the final shipping versions of the Mac/Intel systems, but even if they did, there's about a 0.0001% chance that you would be seeing the old fashioned black&white BIOS POST screen.
stcanard said:
The argument I've heard is that buffer overflows are more common on Intels, but I don't know enough about hardware to judge whether there's any thread of truth to that claim. Even if the claim were true, the effect would be negligible. The real problem with Windows is 1. the prevalence of administrator-only applications, making it hard for many people to use a restricted user account as their everyday account, 2. the easy accessibility to the scripting host from internet-capable applications like IE and Outlook/Outlook Express, 3. intalling ActiveX applications with system level access without a system-level confirmation. These are all software issues; the buffer overflow exploits are important (worms, worm, worms), but are usually quite patchable.
I just don't like the idea of leaving PPC hardware. I don't like the idea that some software starting in two years won't run on my Mac (sure, existing stuff will come with fat binaries, but the new stuff will no more come with fat binaries than new OS X applications that were released 1.0 after 10.1 came out were released with OS 9 implementations), which I spent $3000 on in part because I figured I could get 6 years out of it; I don't like the idea that Apple is going with a supplier who has a reputation for going for quantity, not quality. Possible changes with lower probability that I really don't like - if the final boxes have much in common with these developer boxes, I don't like the idea of a Mac that can run Windows natively (believe me, that will HURT OS X, not help it; people don't buy an OS because it's a good OS, they buy it because it can run the software they need - the Betamax effect), I don't like the idea of a generic BIOS rather than Open Firmware (I work with generic BIOSes all day long, and they suck; open firmware is much, much easier to deal with), I don't like the idea of Apple loosening control over their hardware platform, which I think may be inevitable with the switch to Intel hardware (even if they do intend the shipping systems to have open firmware, etc.), and which I think will soon enough put us in the same kind of driver hell Windows users have been experiencing. I bought a Mac because I'm SICK of dealing with the problems with Intel boxes - regardless of what OS they're running (yes, some issues are hardware related, not software). Finally, the idea that the developer boxes have integrated video scares me.
If the new Mactel boxes are anything like the developer boxes, which may mean easy OS X hacks to beige box systems or easy install of Windows on Mac systems, I don't see much of a future for Apple as a computer company. Let's hope Steve's much vaunted business acumen doesn't fail him on that score.
Then again, maybe Steve's decided he just wants to sell iPods. \me with disgust.
CrazySteve said:
The goal here is to recompile for the x86 architecture... not to optimize for any one processor, graphics chipset, or any other specific component of this quick/cheap/simple development box. And firmware certainly has little to do with a platform recompile, as far as I know... it merely controls the booting.
CrazySteve said:
Correct. And these blueprints allow us to say several things:
1) I'm pretty certain the new macs will be running OSX.
2) Apparently they will be based on an x86 processor
3) Odds are they will have AGP/PCI/IDE buses
4) I'm going out on a limb here, but they will probably have accelerated graphics cards.
So far I'm not getting scared.
apple_intel said:
NOT IN 500 LIFETIMES! That's the most stupid thing ever, running windows (also known as (*&*&%(^*&()#$#%) on a perfectly good mac.
Peace said:
And we know these aren't just pics of a hardware hack by some enthusiast who got his hands on a spare G5 case how, exactly?
As long as it's Mac OSX - it's all good with the Mac Community
Mac folks out there seem to be missing one very important fact:
As long as the Mac community is using MacOSX, who cares what Processor its running on. After all, didn't Steve Jobs once (wrongly) consider IBM to be his arch nemesis? It obviously turned out that it was not the case at all and together, Apple and IBM were able to create some great technology. This will almost certainly be the case with Apple/Intel. Like Mr. Jobs said... and this is something all true Mac fans should know... that the soul of the Mac is it's operating system. Rosetta is a temporary thing - we must also remember that. Soon we will be running natively at 110% on some new Intel/AMD chip. Intel and Apple will innovate together and I'm sure we'll see some great processors from them in the future running MacOSX. (There could also be AMB involvement) In either case, the operating system is what matters folks. It's very sad to hear people like Macmadant being such a pessimist. I hope he or she cheers up for there is no reason to be so glum. None at all !
Mac folks out there seem to be missing one very important fact:
As long as the Mac community is using MacOSX, who cares what Processor its running on. After all, didn't Steve Jobs once (wrongly) consider IBM to be his arch nemesis? It obviously turned out that it was not the case at all and together, Apple and IBM were able to create some great technology. This will almost certainly be the case with Apple/Intel. Like Mr. Jobs said... and this is something all true Mac fans should know... that the soul of the Mac is it's operating system. Rosetta is a temporary thing - we must also remember that. Soon we will be running natively at 110% on some new Intel/AMD chip. Intel and Apple will innovate together and I'm sure we'll see some great processors from them in the future running MacOSX. (There could also be AMB involvement) In either case, the operating system is what matters folks. It's very sad to hear people like Macmadant being such a pessimist. I hope he or she cheers up for there is no reason to be so glum. None at all !