More Hints that Apple is Working on an NFC Payment System on the Next iPhone

[codo]

I would really like this! My barclaycard has NFC built in but very few retailers support it - I think if Apple threw their weight behind the tech, it would see rapid adoption.

The only place I have seen an NFC payment terminal is McDonalds!

 

[voonyx]

I would really like this! My barclaycard has NFC built in but very few retailers support it - I think if Apple threw their weight behind the tech, it would see rapid adoption.

The only place I have seen an NFC payment terminal is McDonalds!

the only way it'll see rapid adoption is with apple

 

[Rodimus Prime]

I would really like this! My barclaycard has NFC built in but very few retailers support it - I think if Apple threw their weight behind the tech, it would see rapid adoption.

The only place I have seen an NFC payment terminal is McDonalds!

wow that is it? I have seen it at Best Buy, most fast food joints big time at drive threws, coke machines (best place for them) and random retailers.

In terms of security the NFC chip on a phone is a hell of a lot more secure than the ones on Credit cards. One big part is the phone can and does change the information sent out from the NFC chip. Something a credit card can not do.

All the CC companies would need to do is set have a one time internet connections in the first syncing of the device to get the counters lined up and then say every so many minutes the counter goes up and as such the number changes. This makes it near impossible to hack because after a few minutes the number you got is completely worthless. They could even have it set up that after so many days it needs to reset and new syncing happens. Mix this with a course location based the security gets even higher as they can track how the card is being used and if it starts jumping around way to fast lock it down.

They already do this with CC is if the card travels faster than you can travel it gets a very quick lock down. For example say I make a charge in Houston and some how with in say a few hours later they detect a charge in New York they know damn well that it is impossible and the card is flagged as stolen. Lock down and I get a phone call asking about it. They track all sorts of things about their users to protect against fraud.

 

[pmz]

On the contrary, the credit card companies love NFC, because they consider it to be far MORE secure than using a separate card.

1) You don't usually hand the phone to anyone else.
2) Even if you do, they cannot make a quick copy of your card or number.
3) You're less likely to accidentally leave it behind.
4) Quick pay is limited in the US to items under $50. Above that, you have to enter a PIN. This is MUCH better than with credit cards.

As with credit cards, you're not liable if your phone is stolen and you let them know as soon as possible.



Tell that to my daughter the mother and schoolteacher, who absolutely loves being able to use her phone all around Cape Canaveral to buy things just by putting it next to the usual credit card swiper. No fuss, no muss, no purse, no lost cards.



Would that make it less "gimmicky and dumb" in your mind if Apple added support for NFC?

It's definitely coming. Just think of the valuable targeted consumer info they'll get with each purchase. That's why Google is doing it.

You see, when Apple said they weren't getting into the search business, that was just handwaving so people wouldn't notice that they were getting into the targeted advertising business, which is Google's real reason to exist.

It's a good bet that Apple will also figure out a way to make even more bucks on it, by passing everything through iTunes and charging someone for it. Then we'll all have to pay more to merchants who're paying Mastercard AND Apple.

Apple's not dumb. NFC's potential for revenue is huge.

Sounds great...paying higher prices for the "convenience" of paying with your iPhone?

And just wait until the endless plethora of stories of cc# info being hacked, stolen, in all number of never imagined ways. Wait until the first million NFC iPhones get jailbroken and their payment info stolen.

You're out to lunch if you think using your wireless device to make payments is a good idea. Convenience is not the most important thing in the world. k, darling?

 

[samcraig]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A406 Safari/7534.48.3)

No thanks.

Completely worthless, not the least bit secure, and totally redundant. I don't need to get rid of my wallet, cash, and credit card. They work just fine, not the slightest burden to carry, and I wouldn't gain a single benefit from using NFC.

Those cheering for this are merely senseless tech addicts with no real world thoughts or attitude. You don't need this, and what's more, you shouldn't want it either. You just Do because it's "something else you don't have yet"

Only NFC is not just for payments. There are a lot of applications. You could tap on a products and get a coupon and/or demo, or more.

With NFC - you could control, for example, your house lights when you walk in the door.

There's more to NFC than just CC payments - which IS a big part of NFC.

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the only way it'll see rapid adoption is with apple

I assume you mean in the United States. Because NFC has already been "rapidly" adopted overseas.

 

[kdarling]

Sounds great...paying higher prices for the "convenience" of paying with your iPhone?

Didn't say I liked it, but it seems likely if Apple makes everything go through iTunes as the news reports have suggested. Would Apple do that for free? Well... perhaps, if they thought the advertising information was worth it.

You're out to lunch if you think using your wireless device to make payments is a good idea. Convenience is not the most important thing in the world. k, darling?

What's with the personal remarks?

Phone based payments have been used for years around the world, and NFC is available in some major US chains, as noted above.

It's here whether you or I are going to use it ourselves. If someone is worried about it, don't use it. Easy.

 

[flynndean]

Right now my pocket contains: Wallet (Containing Bank Cards, London Underground Oyster Card, Driving License, a few Membership Cards and my Work Pass) House Keys, Car Keys & Phone.

I used to carry a dedicated music player: Walkman (then Discman, then MiniDisc, then iPod) until Apple consolidated this functionality into a phone I wanted to buy.

I used to carry cash and a chequebook (in addition to my Debit Card which acted as a Cheque Guarantee Card) until Chip & PIN became the norm in the UK. Now I rarely carry cash and both my MasterCard and VISA have NFC technology built in.

If Apple handle NFC correctly, I can envisage not having to carry anything but my phone in my pocket in the not too distant future. But it relies ENTIRELY on partnerships to stimulate adoption...

...VISA & Mastercard are a given...and certainly in London VISA PayWave/MasterCard PayPass/BarclayCard QuickTap already have good adoption for transactions under £15 and the infrastructure is improving all the time so I can see me losing the Bank Cards fairly quickly. They need to allow a system that lets you use the NFC + PIN for larger transactions...but that's an easy detail that I'm sure can be overcome (it's low-level 2-Factor Identification)

Apple would be foolish not to slap TfL (Transport for London) until they develop an implementation that can allow the iPhone to work with their existing RFID technology. Some Barclaycard Credit Cards already double-up as an Oyster Card so I can imagine I'm going to be losing my Oyster Card as well fairly soon after I buy my next phone.

Membership Cards will no doubt rely on the establishment supporting NFC (via Apple's APIs) so that's just a case of badgering my Gym, Golf & Snooker Clubs, Workplace until they implement NFC Membership Card systems.

ID (Driving License/Passport) is a different matter altogether due to the scare-scaremongering around Identity Theft, but I can imagine Authorities getting on board eventually (though most likely not in the first wave) once the furore has died-down. I have a feeling we'll see this particular aspect implement 2-Factor Authentication, possibly fingerprinting/iris scanning so that Policemen, Border Control, Bar Staff can scan your device with a Terminal and have your FingerPrint scanned as a second form of validation (to ensure the "on-device" ID truly belongs to the individual with the device)

So that's my wallet made redundant! ;-)

Next we come to my car. Now I'm lucky enough to drive a very nice BMW which already kindly unlocks the door for me and adjusts my seat/mirrors/temperature etc. to the correct settings provided I have my key in my pocket. I can even start the engine without going near the ignition via button-press. It's a fairly simple jump to suggest that in the future, a similar kind of "on-device" NFC Validation will mean I can leave the Keyfob at home provided I have my phone with me.

With my House Keys, the onus will be on me to change my home's entry method I suppose. But I do imagine a system where I can validate entry for a friend via an App (adding them to the NFC Validation list) if I'm running a few minutes late so they can let themselves in and put the kettle on etc.

Which leaves me with a single device in my Pocket. Which is exactly what Apple will want. And to be honest...I want it. I believe NFC/RFID needs to evolve into a 2.0 version to give a wider range (making it more like my car keys in that I'd merely need to have the device on my person in order to utilise the tech) but I'll settle for low-power NFC for now.

A few concerns:

1) Single Point of Failure. Someone steals my iPhone = I'm screwed.

I believe this is largely scare-scaremongering and fear of anything new. Right now...if someone manages to mug me at my car and obtain my wallet, they get my car, my address (to rob later) and all my bank cards, as well as my iPhone etc. I then have to call up all the banks individually, call BMW to locate my car (which will no doubt be burned-out and abandoned), kill my iPhone via "Find My Phone", and call the Police.

Via fairly simple extension of the API and with some rigid Data Protection Law underpinning it...I can imagine a situation where via some form of Cloud Service, I'd be able to instruct BMW to kill the ignition & send an SOS Beacon for Recovery of my vehicle (no doubt via an optional, paid-service). I'd be able to cancel all my cards via a simple tap/click, kill my iPhone and obtain a Crime Reference from the Police. All via one simple Portal, cutting down on the time that the Criminal has to take advantage of his spoils (which is the single most important factor when this kind of crime occurs).

2) iOS doesn't currently support true Multi-tasking. I DON'T want a situation where an NFC functionality doesn't work because I haven't got the appropriate App open. We need a virtual "pocket" where everything we set as "On" is available by default ALL THE TIME (Just like the Android implementation). If a terminal requests validation/information...the iPhone needs to be ready to serve it up immediately without me having to fiddle. NFC/RFID is good technology Apple...don't cock it up by mindlessly pursuing "Walled Garden" tactics!


Give it a few decades and your NFC Chip will no doubt be implanted in your wrist using your body's biology as it's primary power-source. Then a few decades later it will hook-up to your Siri-enabled phone that you'll be paying Apple to surgically implant in your inner-ear canal/jaw. Then...and only then can I dare to wear Pocket-less trousers! ;-)

 

[Davie Steele]

Needs to be done, but it becomes a bit pointless when retailers let you use contactless and then ask for a signature. Would be great to have it contactless and then enter in a PIN.

I'd probably be more likely to use it if it was linked to Credit (VISA/MasterCard/Amex) too.

Here In Australia there is paypass up to $100 without pin or sign all you do is tap the card, Commonwealth Bank have an app wich connects your bank details to the app and you can transfer payments to other users just using there mobile number also you can buy a cover for your phone containing the chip and you can tap your phone in the same way, however i'm not buying the cover as its expensive and big! so gonna wait till the chip is built into the phone. But at least the technology is there and it doesn't have to be connected to your itunes account just your bank.

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Here In Australia there is paypass up to $100 without pin or sign all you do is tap the card, Commonwealth Bank have an app wich connects your bank details to the app and you can transfer payments to other users just using there mobile number also you can buy a cover for your phone containing the chip and you can tap your phone in the same way, however i'm not buying the cover as its expensive and big! so gonna wait till the chip is built into the phone. But at least the technology is there and it doesn't have to be connected to your itunes account just your bank.

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Here In Australia there is paypass up to $100 without pin or sign all you do is tap the card, Commonwealth Bank have an app wich connects your bank details to the app and you can transfer payments to other users just using there mobile number also you can buy a cover for your phone containing the chip and you can tap your phone in the same way, however i'm not buying the cover as its expensive and big! so gonna wait till the chip is built into the phone. But at least the technology is there and it doesn't have to be connected to your itunes account just your bank.

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Here In Australia there is paypass up to $100 without pin or sign all you do is tap the card, Commonwealth Bank have an app wich connects your bank details to the app and you can transfer payments to other users just using there mobile number also you can buy a cover for your phone containing the chip and you can tap your phone in the same way, however i'm not buying the cover as its expensive and big! so gonna wait till the chip is built into the phone. But at least the technology is there and it doesn't have to be connected to your itunes account just your bank.

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[flynndean]

If Apple does implement NFC in the iPhone 5, will they drop the fragile glass-backing of the 4/4S? From experience with NFC/RFID you often need to touch/tap the terminal to properly make the connection...and even where you don't...people do anyway! It's often more convenient to make physical contact than to stand there waving/hovering a few inches above the terminal...but if you do...you're going to scratch your phone up quite quickly unless you put it in a case.

I know people will say you're an idiot for not using a case but it should be our prerogative to not buy one and still take full advantage of all of the features of our very expensive phones...Because of the contact issue (not to mention the fact that the device will be coming out of our pockets a lot more if it supports NFC) I can't see something as fragile as the current iPhones being suitable out of the box.

Free Bumpers in the box perhaps as a workaround? (Wishful thinking perhaps!)

 

[pmz]

Didn't say I liked it, but it seems likely if Apple makes everything go through iTunes as the news reports have suggested. Would Apple do that for free? Well... perhaps, if they thought the advertising information was worth it.



What's with the personal remarks?

Phone based payments have been used for years around the world, and NFC is available in some major US chains, as noted above.

It's here whether you or I are going to use it ourselves. If someone is worried about it, don't use it. Easy.

Its not that simple. People are rarely every worried about the things they should be, and millions will likely use this without giving it proper consideration.

I equate that to the many who post in adoration of the idea, without ever considering the risks/consequences.

Its also one more nail in the coffin of cash, which is a bad thing all by itself. I know many people will say to that, "how is it any different from cards in that regard?" ...its not, but as I said, just one more nail in the coffin.