More MacBook LED and Santa Rosa Rumors

[Zadillo]

I think this is right. The problem is that Apple doesn't want to make this case to the consumers. They don't want to say "yeah, we don't always have the most up to date technology, because we think that sometimes it is a bad idea." So instead, every once in a while, when they happen to be ahead of the curve, they say "Hey look, we are on the bleeding edge! We are a company that is always on top of the current technology" The problem is that this only happens sometimes, but people expect it (fairly reasonably, given what Apple says) more often. I think that Apple should just try to make less of a big deal when they happen to be on the bleeding edge because too often they aren't. But that would probably be too hard to market: "Apple: it is worth waiting a few months."

I don't think being a couple months behind on releasing the latest tech qualifies as saying that "too often they aren't" on the bleeding edge. So far the only example we have of that is the introduction of Core 2 Duo chips, where Apple was a couple months behind (but honestly, so what............. Core 2 Duo chips didn't really make a practical difference to anyone yet anyway). Apple was one of the first companies to release laptops with the original Core Duo though.

If Apple gets Santa Rosa laptops out in June or July, they will not be really any later than many other companies, like Asus, etc. which aren't going to have some Santa Rosa models out on the market until then anyway.

-Zadillo

 

[commander.data]

http://www.nvidia.com/object/notebooks.html

Just saw this on the nVidia 8600M launch site. Doesn't that laptop look suspiciously like a new MBP. It's certainly thin enough and it has the Apple classic wide touchpad. And it doesn't look like any of the HP or Lenovo laptops they show later at the bottom of the page.

In any case, Santa Rosa isn't a big deal.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=2985&p=6

Tests show that it doesn't really perform better than Merom on Napa. With 4MB of L2 cache and good prefetching, Merom isn't really that limited by the 667MHz FSB unless you are looking at the most memory intensive programs or synthetics. 802.11n we already have and Robson cache is nice but we still need OS support for that. It's really only the GMA X3100, but Intel still hasn't been able to get out drivers that support hardware T&L and VS so it's potential is still unknown unless Apple can unlock all the features themselves.

 

[shigzeo]

Wait, so how is this a good upgrade?
My 2.16ghz C2D MBP has a FSB of 667mhz and 4mb of L2 cache. A 2.33ghz MBP is already available. How is a .07ghz CPU speed increase and small FSB increase noteworthy? I mean yeah, it would technically be a bit faster, but not noticably. And the MBP's won't benefit from the GMA3000 (though I suppose they'll likely get a video card upgrade of their own).
My point is, unless both lines get the LED screens, this seems like little more than a standard speed bump. Nothing that justifies "who's waiting for Santa Rosa" threads...

if what you mentioned there happens, ill be happy to buy

 

[tuc]

why santa rosa?

I too don't know what all the hype about Santa Rosa is... do we get cheaper Macs or much faster or will the HD be replaced by flash memory...? Apologies, but I honestly don't know this.

Santa Rosa machines shouldn't have the 2GB or 3GB of RAM ceiling. Also, the MacBook (non-Pro) and the MacMini should get better graphics performance, but not other macs that don't use integrated graphics.

The way I see it, that's about it. The other things are fairly minor: faster FSB, the possibility of Robson cache, pre-N wireless (but most macs already have pre-N), a bit more battery life, slightly faster CPUs. Prices should be about the same. Have I missed anything?

--
bitguru blog

 

[twoodcc]

well i hope that they release one soon

 

[unexploded]

Hello all, I've been visiting the MacRumours site for about a year now whilst saving up to buy a MacBook Pro, and I've yet to buy one because of all these bloody updates! I was hoping Leopard would have been out by now but I just can't be arsed to wait any more.

Basically I need to get one as soon as possible, I'm finishing my last year at college and could do with getting one to do some work on the move, and then take the MBP away to university in September.

So what do people think? Should I just go and buy one now or should I wait for this Santa Rosa / LED MBP? Is a June release a realistic estimation (I have my doubts after Leopard and the 'yeah we used our Mac OS team to develop iPhone, so that's why it's delayed' chesnut). How much do people think it will cost and do people think it will be released at more or less the same time in the UK?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

 

[scrambledwonder]

Hello all, I've been visiting the MacRumours site for about a year now whilst saving up to buy a MacBook Pro, and I've yet to buy one because of all these bloody updates! I was hoping Leopard would have been out by now but I just can't be arsed to wait any more.

Basically I need to get one as soon as possible, I'm finishing my last year at college and could do with getting one to do some work on the move, and then take the MBP away to university in September.

So what do people think? Should I just go and buy one now or should I wait for this Santa Rosa / LED MBP? Is a June release a realistic estimation (I have my doubts after Leopard and the 'yeah we used our Mac OS team to develop iPhone, so that's why it's delayed' chesnut). How much do people think it will cost and do people think it will be released at more or less the same time in the UK?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

New MBPs seem likely for June, but nobody (except Apple) knows for sure.

If you need a computer, get one. The MBP is very fast and capable. Unless you're planning on doing hardcore HD video work, the current MBP should meet your needs for the next few years.

Don't worry too much about updates. There will always be something else "better" just around the corner. Get a computer, make money with it, then get another one. Don't worry about future processor releases (unless they're planned, like, next week) and just go for it.

If you're terribly worried about losing money on the deal, look for a used MBP or an Apple Refurbished machine. Either way you should be able to save about $400. That way you won't feel that bad if something new comes out a few weeks after you get yours.

In the end, it's just a computer. You'll have plenty of them in your life (hopefully), so don't stress about it. Just be happy.

Good luck man.

-Dustin

 

[scrambledwonder]

case materials?

Wondering about new case materials. . . anybody hear any news about cutting-edge notebook materials in the future? I read about circuit boards made from recycled chicken feathers (pretty hilarious, I know) a year or two ago. Supposedly half the weight of the current circuit board materials. I've been waiting for the tech, but I suppose it's years away. Just like holographic optical storage devices and quantum computers. . . .

 

[agentmouthwash]

These "Santa Rosa" threads are filled with 2 kinds of people:
(1) Those who just bought a C2D MBP and are saying that Santa Rosa is nothing, but a minor speed bump and not worth waiting for.

(2) Those who have waited for months for this chip (the category that I fall in) and KNOW it's much more than a minor speed bump.

Sorry current MBP users, but I'm going to wait for Santa Rosa. I want a faster system bus, faster application start ups and better battery life. Oh and not to mention more RAM than 3GB which will make my Final Cut Pro very happy. A LCD monitor will be nice as well

 

[shyataroo]

Apple should release OLDED Displays (it can help justify the apple tax) with the MBP and LED on the MB thus getting an early start on the other companies who will soon follow suit and bam! laptops all have OLED. (followed closley by Large Monitors,and TVs)

 

[23027]

Well, I really hope that the 13.3" Macbooks end up getting updated with SR. Having the improved GPU would be so much nicer.. But they better have a ExpressCard|34 slot.. I think that would be a very worthy integration, because this would make the Macbook that much sexier, but with the proper lingerie of course..

An External Video Card​

I think having the Expresscard|34 slot would be amazing.. But on the Macbook's. I'm sure people will probably say "just get a MBP?" but the thing is.. I don't really like the MBP's.. It just doesen't compare to the MB in terms of it's features, like the magnet latch, the keyboard (I personally love this..), the smaller size, and the Black colour. Not huge things, but I can't help but love the MB, solely for those things. It hooked me, and i'm torn apart by the fact that it's shared graphics isn't nearly what I would like to have. I am pretty much only a Valve Half-Life 2 kind of guy with a bit of Day of Defeat: Source and Counter-Strike Source in there, maybe an oddball Battlefield 2/2142, and I do lot's of travelling for snowboarding and hockey. Having the sexilicious MB would be so nice, but being able to have the availability of the serious horsepower at home would be so much more comforting for my guilty pleasure of gaming. The only reason I would get the MBP is for the better graphics card, but having the Expresscard|34 availability would just be perfect.

The only reason I'm (and i'm sure many other people like I are as well) are waiting for news of new updates is because it's just sooo close, but at the same time kind of.. Far. I'd probably buy a new MB right now if we weren't within a month of hearing news of what Apple plans to do with their line of notebooks. I'm so sick of waiting, but I hope it will be worth it.

I've been a PC user my whole life, and i've finally decided to switch over. I can easily say that Apple makes the most innovative and beautiful products.. They look so good I want to roast them.

I think i'll be extremely dissapointed if my decision to wait until WWDC turns out to be a waste of time because the new products end up being shipped like, 2 MONTHS LATER. That's a long time.. I want a laptop to bring with me to hockey camps all over the place in July and August.

If that's the case, I'm going to buy a Macbook the very same day.

BTW, is there anyone else who feels the same about a Macbook, basically only waiting for a GPU update? Everything else is good, I just want to have a good enough GPU, or with the external graphics card issue the availability to have a good GPU so that my $2000 dollar laptop can play games released later on in the year.. Mainly the Half-Life 2 series.

Who feels the same? =]

 

[Manic Mouse]

Well, I really hope that the 13.3" Macbooks end up getting updated with SR. Having the improved GPU would be so much nicer.. But they better have a ExpressCard|34 slot.. I think that would be a very worthy integration, because this would make the Macbook that much sexier, but with the proper lingerie of course..

An External Video Card​

I think having the Expresscard|34 slot would be amazing.. But on the Macbook's. I'm sure people will probably say "just get a MBP?" but the thing is.. I don't really like the MBP's.. It just doesen't compare to the MB in terms of it's features, like the magnet latch, the keyboard (I personally love this..), the smaller size, and the Black colour. Not huge things, but I can't help but love the MB, solely for those things. It hooked me, and i'm torn apart by the fact that it's shared graphics isn't nearly what I would like to have. I am pretty much only a Valve Half-Life 2 kind of guy with a bit of Day of Defeat: Source and Counter-Strike Source in there, maybe an oddball Battlefield 2/2142, and I do lot's of travelling for snowboarding and hockey. Having the sexilicious MB would be so nice, but being able to have the availability of the serious horsepower at home would be so much more comforting for my guilty pleasure of gaming. The only reason I would get the MBP is for the better graphics card, but having the Expresscard|34 availability would just be perfect.

The only reason I'm (and i'm sure many other people like I are as well) are waiting for news of new updates is because it's just sooo close, but at the same time kind of.. Far. I'd probably buy a new MB right now if we weren't within a month of hearing news of what Apple plans to do with their line of notebooks. I'm so sick of waiting, but I hope it will be worth it.

I've been a PC user my whole life, and i've finally decided to switch over. I can easily say that Apple makes the most innovative and beautiful products.. They look so good I want to roast them.

I think i'll be extremely dissapointed if my decision to wait until WWDC turns out to be a waste of time because the new products end up being shipped like, 2 MONTHS LATER. That's a long time.. I want a laptop to bring with me to hockey camps all over the place in July and August.

If that's the case, I'm going to buy a Macbook the very same day.

BTW, is there anyone else who feels the same about a Macbook, basically only waiting for a GPU update? Everything else is good, I just want to have a good enough GPU, or with the external graphics card issue the availability to have a good GPU so that my $2000 dollar laptop can play games released later on in the year.. Mainly the Half-Life 2 series.

Who feels the same? =]

The MacBook's GPU is terribly underpowered. I don't see why Apple can't put a low-end GPU in it. Heck, the Apple TV has a better GPU!

 

[kingofkolt]

I think i'll be extremely dissapointed if my decision to wait until WWDC turns out to be a waste of time because the new products end up being shipped like, 2 MONTHS LATER. That's a long time..

Does this happen often? I need a new MBP by August when I leave for college... But I'd prefer to have it much sooner so I can use it through the summer. Even waiting this long is pushing it for me, but at the same time it seems widely accepted that an update is on the way... so here I wait. It would kill me if I order it and then have to wait another 2 months just to get the damn thing in the mail.

 

[MArcoetpolo]

Shipping?

Hey everybody!
I'm wsaiting for the new MBP , obviously they will be announced one june the 11...
But what about the shipping time?
will they be on apple store just after? orso?
I hope that the will not be delayed till october for delivery

 

[mutejute]

id also like to buy a macbook now but whats holding me is the SR/LED rumors coming this june. if the new macbook will have a better gpu and/or exxpresscard and/or fw800, that will be worth the wait. but if this thing will come out in october, ill get one now (or after the announcement).

 

[Val-kyrie]

As much as I would rather believe Gizmodo, logic lies toward Crunchgear. Consider:

1) SR uses an 800 MHz FSB instead of 667MHz, but no manufacturer currently offering an SR-based laptop is using DDR2 800 MHz RAM. Does it even exist yet? Since only 667MHz DDR2 RAM is currently available, what IMMEDIATE reason is there to upgrade to a chipset offering an 800MHz FSB? Only those of us looking far forward to upgrading memory would want the option of an 800MHz FSB. For all others, there is no benefit.

2) SR uses Intel Turbo Memory (aka Robson Cache) to boost boot times for Vista and to decrease the time required to wake from sleep/hibernation. It is possible Apple could patch Tiger to take advantage but it is more likely, in light of the large focus at Apple toward iPhone development, that Apple will wait for Leopard and include it as a standard feature--one of Steve's features that "will be worth the wait"? After the iPhone is released, it is more likely Apple's primary focus will be toward fixing bugs in Leopard and polishing it before its October(?) debut. So, IMO, Apple has little reason so far to adopt SR?

3) MBPs use discrete graphics so there is no advantage in changing chipsets to SR.

4) Correlatively, MBs use integrated graphics but the current 950 chipset is all that is required/needed for Tiger and is sufficient for most consumers now. This is not aimed at those of us who want bleeding edge technology.

5) LED displays will wow consumers for whom SR will offer no real IMMEDIATE benefits on the Mac platform (with the exception of those who want better integrated graphics--I include myself here--but this is not what most consumers will focus on. If it works now, that is all they care about).

In sum, I expect to see SR adopted with the release of Leopard and not before. With new LED displays to showcase, and few if any immediate benefits from the SR chipset for the Mac platform, I see no reason to expect any SR-based laptops before Sep/Oct. Lastly, please note that this does not include consideration of Vista. Granted the X3000/X3100 integrated gfx chip would be better for Vista, but most consumers are waiting for Vista SP1 unless they buy a new computer with it already installed and most 3rd Party retailers give the option of Win XP for those who need it, for which the current integrated solution is acceptable.

 

[Val-kyrie]

Two More Considerations Against SR

After reading through the thread, there are two more things to consider:
6) SR provides a true 64 bit chipset. However, the first (true? mostly?) 64 bit OS requiring such a chipset will be Leopard. (Please correct me if I am wrong, OS programming is not my specialty.) As such, there is no IMMEDIATE need for SR.

7) SR allows the computer/OS to address more than 3GB (or GiB-let's not get into this debate here) of RAM. However, who can afford 4GB for a laptop? or for that matter, more than 2GB realistically? Not me, although I would love the option. That said, again, there is no IMMEDIATE need for SR.

As much as I would rather believe Gizmodo, logic lies toward Crunchgear. Consider:

1) SR uses an 800 MHz FSB instead of 667MHz, but no manufacturer currently offering an SR-based laptop is using DDR2 800 MHz RAM. Does it even exist yet? Since only 667MHz DDR2 RAM is currently available, what IMMEDIATE reason is there to upgrade to a chipset offering an 800MHz FSB? Only those of us looking far forward to upgrading memory would want the option of an 800MHz FSB. For all others, there is no benefit.

2) SR uses Intel Turbo Memory (aka Robson Cache) to boost boot times for Vista and to decrease the time required to wake from sleep/hibernation. It is possible Apple could patch Tiger to take advantage but it is more likely, in light of the large focus at Apple toward iPhone development, that Apple will wait for Leopard and include it as a standard feature--one of Steve's features that "will be worth the wait"? After the iPhone is released, it is more likely Apple's primary focus will be toward fixing bugs in Leopard and polishing it before its October(?) debut. So, IMO, Apple has little reason so far to adopt SR?

3) MBPs use discrete graphics so there is no advantage in changing chipsets to SR.

4) Correlatively, MBs use integrated graphics but the current 950 chipset is all that is required/needed for Tiger and is sufficient for most consumers now. This is not aimed at those of us who want bleeding edge technology.

5) LED displays will wow consumers for whom SR will offer no real IMMEDIATE benefits on the Mac platform (with the exception of those who want better integrated graphics--I include myself here--but this is not what most consumers will focus on. If it works now, that is all they care about).

In sum, I expect to see SR adopted with the release of Leopard and not before. With new LED displays to showcase, and few if any immediate benefits from the SR chipset for the Mac platform, I see no reason to expect any SR-based laptops before Sep/Oct. Lastly, please note that this does not include consideration of Vista. Granted the X3000/X3100 integrated gfx chip would be better for Vista, but most consumers are waiting for Vista SP1 unless they buy a new computer with it already installed and most 3rd Party retailers give the option of Win XP for those who need it, for which the current integrated solution is acceptable.

 

[AidenShaw]

6) SR provides a true 64 bit chipset. However, the first (true? mostly?) 64 bit OS requiring such a chipset will be Leopard. (Please correct me if I am wrong, OS programming is not my specialty.) As such, there is no IMMEDIATE need for SR.

Windows XP 64-bit, Vista 64-bit, and Linux 64-bit could benefit immediately from being able to use the memory between about 3.25 GiB and 4 GiB.

However, who can afford 4GB for a laptop? or for that matter, more than 2GB realistically?

4 GiB is only about $600 from Crucial.

 

[urbanskywalker]

Will this new processor and graphics card combo allow for driving a larger monitor on the MacBook? Any chance it will also allow Motion to work and other Final Cut Studio Apps?

 

[Wilcoo]

If you're terribly worried about losing money on the deal, look for a used MBP or an Apple Refurbished machine. Either way you should be able to save about $400. That way you won't feel that bad if something new comes out a few weeks after you get yours.

In the end, it's just a computer. You'll have plenty of them in your life (hopefully), so don't stress about it. Just be happy.

Good luck man.

-Dustin

I ordered my refurbished MBP last Tuesday and totally got caught up in the "rumor" until I read your post. I am still tempted to cancel my order and spend $400 more and wait for a new MBP in June, but then again, they probably won't ship for a few weeks, they'll probably have issues as being the first w/ a new processor / monitor technology, and they might even up the price $100 or so to make up for increased cost. And I just want a new computer now...

Thanks for putting things in perspective

 

[Bye Bye Baby]

Well actually no

Really, why? The current line is just doing fine and they can get more profits as Intel will slash their non-SR chip prices..

Actually

 

[Bye Bye Baby]

Well actually no

Really, why? The current line is just doing fine and they can get more profits as Intel will slash their non-SR chip prices..

Actually that's not true. Apple has been doing well precisely because they were offering the best chip-set out there. If they want to keep doing well than eventually they will have to move to Santa Rosa. Selling computers is not about inertia, it's about innovation

 

[tuc]

These "Santa Rosa" threads are filled with 2 kinds of people:
(1) Those who just bought a C2D MBP and are saying that Santa Rosa is nothing, but a minor speed bump and not worth waiting for.

(2) Those who have waited for months for this chip (the category that I fall in) and KNOW it's much more than a minor speed bump.

There's a touch of truth to that, but it's an oversimplification. For example, I haven't bought any macs since late 2003 but I'm one of the ones saying that that Santa Rosa is not a big deal.

Which is not to say I'm not waiting for it. I'm sort of waiting for Santa Rosa MacMinis and MacBooks so I can recommend them to others. The X3100 graphics should be worth waiting for for those two models, and the increased RAM ceiling should future-proof them a bit.

But for the MacBook Pro, I wouldn't wait for Santa Rosa. (Though it may be worth waiting for LED displays and/or Leopard.) Unless Apple does more than I expect with Robson cache, it's just not going to make much difference. The raised RAM ceiling could be worth waiting for for some users, but I don't see it as anything more than "a minor speed bump," as you say.

bitguru blog

 

[Val-kyrie]

Windows XP 64-bit, Vista 64-bit, and Linux 64-bit could benefit immediately from being able to use the memory between about 3.25 GiB and 4 GiB.

OK, but very few people use any of these OSs. There are many problems with obtaining drivers for XP 64-bit, and most people still use the 32-bit OSs. Also, there is no IMMEDIATE benefit for the Mac OS, which I think is the overriding factor in any decision. Any benefits for non-Apple systems are a plus, but that's about it.

4 GiB is only about $600 from Crucial.

Still, that is anywhere between 1/2 and 1/3 roughly of the cost of a MB and between roughly 1/3 and 1/5 of the cost of a MBP. If I were Apple, I would assume that few consumers purchasing MBs would need more than 3GiB right now, and that those professionals who needed that much memory in a MBP would more likely purchase a Mac Pro. Not to say there is no need to address more than 4GiB of memory, but only that this affects very few people. I think Apple is waiting for Leopard on the software side and the Penryn processor on the hardware side--though I wouldn't rule out SR with Merom, it just depends on the production schedule of Penryn.

 

[kristoffer4]

My specs list for a new Macbook would be.

New Santa Rosa with everything including nand flash.
120 GB standard
1 GB Ram standard
3 USB ports
New LED screens

That's it.