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More MacBook LED and Santa Rosa Rumors
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you seem to be missing the point here. Performance per watt is so important in laptops because it allows Apple to keep making them small and pretty and hopefully it will prolong the battery life - all essential qualities in a portable computer. With the G4 Apple had reached the limit of what could be put inside a computer and kept sufficiently cool.
Benchmarks for all of the current chips are online now and you can find further scores for the latest SR chipset within this thread.
I read on another site that apple has not been happy with the mini line, and that if they upgrade it, that will cut into thetv numbers. Like you, I bet they focus on the
It just doesn't make any sense to drop the mini to focus on the
tv. I mean, you do realize that the tv won't work by itself? The mini is perfect to tuck away somewhere with a huge firewire drive to feed a house full of tv's. If the mini did not exist, you would be forced to buy an Xserve($$$), use your Imac, use your macbook, or use a PC. If the mini was not there as an option, I would pick the PC running Itunes tucked away somewhere streaming my content. I am sure Apple would want to offer a complete solution that makes sense for the tv and the mini makes sense as a home media server.Wait, so how is this a good upgrade?
My 2.16ghz C2D MBP has a FSB of 667mhz and 4mb of L2 cache. A 2.33ghz MBP is already available. How is a .07ghz CPU speed increase and small FSB increase noteworthy? I mean yeah, it would technically be a bit faster, but not noticably. And the MBP's won't benefit from the GMA3000 (though I suppose they'll likely get a video card upgrade of their own).
My point is, unless both lines get the LED screens, this seems like little more than a standard speed bump. Nothing that justifies "who's waiting for Santa Rosa" threads...
First off I take offense to your statement because I started that thread. I also think you don't realize that Santa Rosa has allot more potential than just a speed bump.
Could you explain what potential it has then? because I agree with mopppish, Santa Rosa looks little more then a speed bump, true 64 bit chipset for programs that aren't 64 bit, and not much more until things like robinson caching and hybrid hard drives come out
Also, I wouldn't take offense to that, remember, this is just a computer chipset here.. not a revolutionary anti-gravity machine or something.
Rocketman, I agree with a lot of your points, and I wanted to touch on some others.
One could argue that Apple is one of the more experienced computer hardware manufacturers and that the delay in adopting new Intel technologies would not be based on their fear of quality concerns of a new platform. It is more likely due to the added costs in quickly transferring to new Intel technology vs. the lack of added business value in these situations. They probably had to wait for several things to fall into place, such as shipments of Santa Rosa boards and LED contracts to fall into place. Considering their historical preference of releasing new pro notebooks, it looks like they're overdue by several months, and they would not abandon their "innovator" brand identity if not for waiting for things that would add value to the product.
Flash drives probably won't be available for a little while longer. 64GB drives are still too expensive and don't give enough storage.
LED lit displays is probably something they've been secretly working on for some time, and after plans worked out, they decided to roll with it in March. April ship, May manufacture, June-Aug ship to customers.
New display resolutions probably won't be available until res-independent Leopard. Although MacBook Pro users wouldn't mind having the technology early and sitting on it, I'm sure.
Touch sensitive displays. I still think they're gimmicky. I think most of the world does. They're rolling out a new OS, new backlighting, new platform... that's a lot on their plate. Why would they roll out a drastic change like touch screens when there still isn't a killer app touting it?
Internal RAID is pointless. It would require two drives which would be extremely hot, one thing the MacBook Pro already has problems with. It would use 2.5" drives which are slow anyways. Firewire 800 will allow external drives to read at 96MB/sec. Anything faster than that and you're in 10bit 1080p editing and you'll have the money to afford an Xserve and eSATA, or a dedicated workstation like a Mac Pro.
My final thoughts? New MacBook Pro at, or possibly before, WWDC. LED backlit. Radeon Mobility x2600. Santa Rosa board. MacBooks will come shortly thereafter with new LED screens. The real question for me is when a 1900x1080 17" MacBook Pro will come out.
One could argue that Apple is one of the more experienced computer hardware manufacturers and that the delay in adopting new Intel technologies would not be based on their fear of quality concerns of a new platform. It is more likely due to the added costs in quickly transferring to new Intel technology vs. the lack of added business value in these situations. They probably had to wait for several things to fall into place, such as shipments of Santa Rosa boards and LED contracts to fall into place. Considering their historical preference of releasing new pro notebooks, it looks like they're overdue by several months, and they would not abandon their "innovator" brand identity if not for waiting for things that would add value to the product.
Santa Rosa is a huge leap forward, I'm guessing they were waiting primarily for that. The increase to bus speed or Robson caching aren't the motivating factors here. Its a new platform. It will allow for true 64 bit addressing of up to 8 gigs of RAM. It will allow for new 45nm Penryn chips in the future. They need to embrace this sooner, rather than later.
Flash drives probably won't be available for a little while longer. 64GB drives are still too expensive and don't give enough storage.
LED lit displays is probably something they've been secretly working on for some time, and after plans worked out, they decided to roll with it in March. April ship, May manufacture, June-Aug ship to customers.
New display resolutions probably won't be available until res-independent Leopard. Although MacBook Pro users wouldn't mind having the technology early and sitting on it, I'm sure.
Touch sensitive displays. I still think they're gimmicky. I think most of the world does. They're rolling out a new OS, new backlighting, new platform... that's a lot on their plate. Why would they roll out a drastic change like touch screens when there still isn't a killer app touting it?
Internal RAID is pointless. It would require two drives which would be extremely hot, one thing the MacBook Pro already has problems with. It would use 2.5" drives which are slow anyways. Firewire 800 will allow external drives to read at 96MB/sec. Anything faster than that and you're in 10bit 1080p editing and you'll have the money to afford an Xserve and eSATA, or a dedicated workstation like a Mac Pro.
I don't buy any of this. Apple is going to work with Intel and other manufacturers. When Intel produced a master production schedule they assuredly had information from Apple as to how much they would need. We can assume with Apple ordering 100,000 15.4 LED screens that they could have possibly requested 100,000 Santa Rosa boards from Intel as well. If anything, adding Apple to the mix would give Intel greater economies of scale and LOWER prices. Intel and Apple are two of the best companies in the world, and although they can make mistakes sometimes, they are in the position they are in right now because they plan well. Do you think Intel is going to say, "OK Dell, OK Lenovo, here are your Santa Rosas... oh and Apple, you don't get anything because you're new"?
My final thoughts? New MacBook Pro at, or possibly before, WWDC. LED backlit. Radeon Mobility x2600. Santa Rosa board. MacBooks will come shortly thereafter with new LED screens. The real question for me is when a 1900x1080 17" MacBook Pro will come out.
Dynamic Acceleration Technology is something I think may have a bigger impact that people might think. And when Robson's available I will be ready for it. I will also be ahead of the curve for the next speed step of notebook RAM.
It's not a chipset. It's a platform. If you don't understand the difference, then Google it.
800 FSB
RAM limit bumped to 8GB, we'll at least see 4GB addressing now
Dynamic FSB switching to save power
Kedron - IEEE 802.11 a/b/g/n mini-PCIe Wi-Fi adapter
Robson/NAND flash memory
Enhanced sleep state to save power
Dynamic Acceleration Technology to speed up single core applications
Upgrade to 45nm Penryn processor in 2008
What's not to like about all that?
For applications that really exercise memory (rather than CPU) the AMD gear still beats Intel, though not as badly as it used to. Broadly speaking Intel currently has the upper hand, but they do not dominate the field. The memory architecture of AMD is still markedly better than Intel and this shows up in some apps.
As Kernel Potter said on M*A*S*H - "Horse Hockey"
Not completely true. AMD is very good for the memory performance between CPU(s) on a socket and the memory attached to the memory controller associated with that socket.
If the CPU needs to access memory on a *different* socket, though, it needs to talk to the other socket over a serial bus to get to the memory data.
In a four socket configuration, it may need to talk to two other sockets over two separate serial busses to access the memory.
If it were "markedly better", it would show up on "most" or "all" apps. Not "some" apps.
Look at the SPEC benchmark reports on the AMD systems. The manufacturers have partly disabled the CPU schedulers so that they can make sure that the memory used by a task is local to the CPU where that task is running.
Great for SPEC, but sucks for Photoshop or Final Cut or any other application where you want all the cores to work on the same memory.
Not completely true. AMD is very good for the memory performance between CPU(s) on a socket and the memory attached to the memory controller associated with that socket.
If the CPU needs to access memory on a *different* socket, though, it needs to talk to the other socket over a serial bus to get to the memory data.
In a four socket configuration, it may need to talk to two other sockets over two separate serial busses to access the memory.
If it were "markedly better", it would show up on "most" or "all" apps. Not "some" apps.
Look at the SPEC benchmark reports on the AMD systems. The manufacturers have partly disabled the CPU schedulers so that they can make sure that the memory used by a task is local to the CPU where that task is running.
Great for SPEC, but sucks for Photoshop or Final Cut or any other application where you want all the cores to work on the same memory.
Reply:
Penryn is THE thing to Steve, current C2D is the thing to Apple Marketing.
iPhone interface is the killer app for touchscreen as is retail and kiosk. That's a lot of units.
Internal 1.8" microdrive is low enough power and heat for an iPod so a "lappy" (WTF?) it is no problemo.
Buy Intel, Apple, AT&T, Foxconn, etc.
The 15" MBP released at WWDC will actually be worse than a Rev A. It will be pre-release features of the MBP-17 and much later MB-13.
Why can't ANY MacBook user select upgraded graphics, albiet at high cost? And memory, Apple install single stick memory from the factory to improve upgrade net cost. Seriously.
Rocketman
Personally, I expect santa rosa updates in short order with LED displays bowing in with Penryn. I don't know if they are quite ready from prime time this early.
Where is my 12" MBP in all these rumors???
1440x900, 12" (13" max!), Graphic Card (ATI or NVDA), ExpressCard, Core2 Duo, dual diplay and video mirroring, iSight, Frontrow, Remote, <4 pounds...
Damn, it is not so difficult, Steve!
Please.
Your price is mine...
Natalie Portman is dropping it off on her way to my house to spend the weekend.
Ugh, busy studying for finals and too many numbers swimming around. You're absolutely right, that's one hell of a typo. WUXGA (1920x1200) was what I was thinking.
I'm not sure what you mean by the Penryn statement. Marketing has a secondary job of communicating the customer's needs to the business. Are you saying consumers aren't excited for Penryn? Especially the market for MacBook *Pro*s? I'm certain Apple uses a form of S&OP to balance supply and demand, including new technologies and capacity. Are you suggesting they don't?Rocketman said:
iPhone is not a "killer app". Its a consumer hardware device, and a phone at that. Last I checked, Apple wasn't looking at retail and kiosk enrivonments as being cutting edge and consequently tying them in to MacBook Pro development. Now Adobe CS or FCP having slick touchscreen features would be exactly the "killer app" that I described.
You mean the Hitachis with a 15MB/sec transfer rate? So running those in RAID 0 would give you ~30MB/sec? I can hook up my Samsung SpinPoint via FW800 and get 65MB/sec average read rates. That isn't a valid reason, so you must be talking about about RAID 1. Which would also make little to no sense, as if one drive failed it would be difficult to hot swap it out of a notebook.
Sorry, I don't follow what you're trying to say here.
I never said it would be perfect. But the horrors of completely changing architectures are behind now. I'll buy it, and if it breaks, Apple will replace it.
MacBooks are kept cheaper by not accommodating for dedicated graphics cards. It wouldn't be economical for Apple to make that a CTO option for the relatively small amount of people that want dedicated graphics, but don't want to pay a little more for a MBP. Most people that need the dedicated graphics have accepted that the MBP is the only way to go, and pay more for that feature.
How about...
What if they just release SR updates to the entire MB and MBP line asap. This week or next...
Then at WWDC - launch a new MBP:
- 12"
- LED
- Solid State HD
- at least an 8 hour battery life
- SR
- ???
What if they just release SR updates to the entire MB and MBP line asap. This week or next...
Then at WWDC - launch a new MBP:
- 12"
- LED
- Solid State HD
- at least an 8 hour battery life
- SR
- ???
Penryn is in development - months away. C2D is shipping and speed bumps are parts changeouts in marketing.
Penryn will make new things possible for the first time.
iPhone (ATN) is a palmtop supercomputer with remote storage and high bandwidth access. Not bad for under 1/4 the cost of a Mac+.
Palmtop or micro form factor or mini-laptop RAID is now cost/power/tecnology practical. Need to store a RED file on your MBP12? No problemo.
Apple tends to abandon all "old" technology. G3 is the exception and only because of a lawsuit and near total processor compatability.
(64 bit) MacBook BTO dedicated graphics is practical. Charge me.
Rocketman
And not to mention that providing as much, or more, performance at a lower wattage also aids in decreasing heat, too.
I'm still not quite sure what you're trying to compare Merom to Penryn in terms of marketing for. Santa Rosa supports both, and adds much desired features. There is no reason for Apple not to embrace the platform at the same time as other companies. They can still sell Merom CPUs on Santa Rosa platform
Penryn adds SSE4 which will help with video encoding and a few other things. Also quad core mobile cpus, faster bus, and DDR3 support. Nothing new here, just nice improvements to previously existing functionality. Making things faster is always good.
iPhones are amazing, I'll probably get one. I just don't think it means that a notebook needs a touchscreen. They're used completely differently. When Adobe CS or FCP make good use of touchscreen or core features of OSX make use of them, that is when you'll see MBP get touchscreens.
You still haven't specified if you mean 0, 1, JBOD, or something else. Apple would have to add RAID controllers to the Santa Rosa platform (is ICH8MR southbridge even announced yet?). Red will require ~30MB/sec sequential reads iirc, but that still doesn't mean its a good idea when external RAID is so attractive to notebook users. I like the flexibility of using my notebook the way it is, and if I need to edit something, I plug in a FW drive that drastically increases my transfer rates, data integrity, and storage available.
Apple has looked at the cost of giving MBs dedicated graphics and decided that it wouldn't be worth it. There's a business decision behind it, and it may not jive with what you'd like to see, but it most likely won't change with decent chips like the X3000 coming out.
I really feel like you're ignoring my points and just arguing for what *you* would like to personally see in a new notebook without regard to Apple's business, so I'll politely bow out of this conversation. I'll be waiting for the new MBP release, and I'll love what I get. Cheers
edit: Ok, I'll bite on your video card challenge before I head off to bed. You say "Charge me"? Well, it will cost you ~$1000, a larger enclosure, and more weight. It may also say "MacBook Pro" on the packaging instead of "MacBook"
Look at other manufacturers, SR based notebooks will be released sometime during the June~July period. Hence, WWDC is a more reasonable date for MBPs or MBs to get their updates (please allow with more transitional period).
HOWEVER, they are talking about updates (new designs/ SR / NAND) on their already LED notebooks.
http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3666
Whats up in Steve's sleeve? An iphone perhaps....
Sorry guys, you all will get the same kind of disappointment that I have experienced way back in February. LED MBP/MB? Most likely will be released this coming October/ November with/ without a brief announcement during WWDC. I m sure will be TOO focus on their new baby (iphone)....
I need a notebook this coming August and wish to switch to a Mac (been telling myself since last Christmas).... But what is offering when you compare their line of products with the likes of Dell, HP, Sony etc.
I sincerely hope will prove me wrong this time... until August, we shall see!
with more transitional period).HOWEVER, they are talking about updates (new designs/ SR / NAND) on their already LED notebooks.
http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3666
Whats up in Steve's sleeve? An iphone perhaps....
Sorry guys, you all will get the same kind of disappointment that I have experienced way back in February. LED MBP/MB? Most likely will be released this coming October/ November with/ without a brief announcement during WWDC. I m sure
will be TOO focus on their new baby (iphone)....I need a notebook this coming August and wish to switch to a Mac (been telling myself since last Christmas).... But what is
offering when you compare their line of products with the likes of Dell, HP, Sony etc.I sincerely hope
will prove me wrong this time... until August, we shall see!
The more I hear these rumors, the happier I get. By the time I finally have the money to get a new MacBook (Pro), they are going to be freakin' awesome!
Wow. Its nice to see someone who actually seems to know what they're talking about around here. Sure there are others like you here, but they are few and far between. You should keep coming here to correct some of the ridiculous comments that seems to pop up all the time.
Glad to have you here.