More on Booting Windows on the Intel Mac?

[asphalt-proof]

Look at at this way:

* How many people will install Windows on their Mac and then NOT use Mac OS X or buy Mac OS X software ever again? Very, very few.

* How many people will buy a Mac who never would have before, just because they have the "comfort" of knowing they COULD run Windows if they want to? A much larger group! (And many of them won't bother installing Windows anyway--but knowing they CAN is a mental safety net that allows them to consider a "scary" new way of computing.)

For some individual users, the ability to run Windows will be a great tool of last resort.

For Apple, it means Mac sales!

For Mac developers, it means more Mac users! Users who are seldom willing to buy a Mac and then just give up Mac OS X. Users who are buying Mac software.

Exactly. This is my dad. When he comes to my house he absolutely drools over my iMac BUT he won't switch because he doesn't want to have to learn a new OS. Dual booting would allow him to have his Windows but play around with OSX. He wins!!

Kind of off topic.... Should we start a pool to guess when the first confirmed dual booting of OSX/Windows happens? My guess is that it will happen later next week. Thursday lets say.

Seriously, you know that some hackers are just working night and day to make this happen. It won't be long before versiontracker has a nice tight little program that enable this to happen easily.

 

[SiliconAddict]

I would never ever dream of putting that discusting operating system called Windows on my Mac.

Grow up.

 

[dejo]

Exactly. This is my dad. When he comes to my house he absolutely drools over my iMac BUT he won't switch because he doesn't want to have to learn a new OS. Dual booting would allow him to have his Windows but play around with OSX. He wins!!

If he doesn't want to learn a new OS, what will incent him to play around with OS X?

 

[nagromme]

Why emulate when you can run the real deal?! I can see the point to emulating for web developers and other people that need to run just that one application that is only for Windows. Other then that, if you need hardware support (gaming) then there is no substitute to dual booting.

Well I wouldn't want to "emulate" as such (slow), but I CERTAINLY would avoid dual booting.

Dual-booting is a fine option to have, and if some people want that, that's great--but there are also good reasons to choose another route if you need Windows.

I like my OS X security the way it is, and I do NOT want the Windows OS to be able to see my Mac hard drive. And when you boot Windows, it can. It can't access the contents or read the files, not without HFS software, but it CAN see that the Mac partition exists, and it CAN reformat it. And so can a Windows virus. For me, it's not good enough to know that "you probably won't get a Windows virus that wipes your drive." I'm spoiled, being used to Mac's freedom from viruses (which will always be greater than with Windows), and I like it that way. I want to be SURE that won't happen. If you dual-boot, the only way to keep your Mac safe from viruses totally is to physically disconnect the Mac hard disk, or never go on the Internet.

Plus if you dual boot you can't use your Mac and Windows apps TOGETHER. So much for workflow and sharing data. For everything but games, that matters.

I'd rather have Windows running at full speed at the SAME time as OS X, in a virtual hardware environment that protects the Mac partition from being reformatted by a Windows virus. Virtual PC--and probably others--will do just that. (It doesn't seem that Bochs does.)

 

[Photorun]

Grow up.

Would you prefer "I'd never put that OS full of mailware, spyware, some bugs, viruses, clunky interfaces, stupid noises, crashing, and productivity killing on my MacTel?"

Oh, but I'd still add "FUGLY as all get out XP," 'cause it is.

 

[asphalt-proof]

If he doesn't want to learn a new OS, what will incent him to play around with OS X?

He loves iLife on the mac and the way the whole pkg is integrated so tightly. But he know windows and doesn't want to change. My guess is that he would pick one up to use the iLife suite and Windows for everything else.

 

[bdkennedy1]

No one should believe ANYTHING that OpenOSX says. I purchased their emulator 2 years ago. I was never able to get it running on my G5. He never responded to e-mails and I never got the free upgrade to 2.0 offered on the website. As far as I'm concerned this product doesn't exist.

 

[Carlson-online]

it wouldnt surprise me if Microsoft actuall implement Vista so that it will run on a Mac. after all, if they can have a system that can be installed on Macs aswell, more people will buy it!

 

[SiliconAddict]

For Apple, it means Mac sales!

And that is the biggest deal of all. A sale vs. no sale is sort of a nobrainer when it comes right down to it. Something that many who groan about Windows on Mac simply miss.

Looking at it another way with a Windows user going and purchasing a Mac there is at least some chance of them reloading OS X at some point vs. them going out and buying a Dell Latitude. Small chance is better then no chance. This needs to be accomplished and if that means that Apple needs to nudge it along with some update to EFI then so be it.

 

[mdavey]

* How many people will buy a Mac who never would have before, just because they have the "comfort" of knowing they COULD run Windows if they want to? A much larger group! (And many of them won't bother installing Windows anyway--but knowing they CAN is a mental safety net that allows them to consider a "scary" new way of computing.)

Yup. I think this will be particularly important for the Enterprise. As an employee, being able to include the fact that it can run Windows (and therefore, could be used by other employees in the event I move on) might well be the deciding factor as to whether the IT department will sign off on the purchase.

I think that Apple have probably got the balance about right in dissuading customers and authorised resellers from installing Linux and Windows on the machine without actually outright preventing them. Essentially, for the next 12 months or so, it will only be geeks that will be running Windows or Linux on Apple hardware.

 

[Manatee]

I love my Powerbooks, but I wouldn't own them if Virtual PC didn't exist. There are certain PC apps that I must be able to run, which don't have file-compatible equivalents on OS X. These include Microsoft Project, Visio, and Access.

If the Intel Macs can run Windows apps at near-native speed, I'll look forward to running Visual Studio and SQL Server on them, and abandoning my PCs altogether.

 

[danny_w]

Well I wouldn't want to "emulate" as such (slow), but I CERTAINLY would avoid dual booting.

Dual-booting is a fine option to have, and if some people want that, that's great--but there are also good reasons to choose another route if you need Windows.

I like my OS X security the way it is, and I do NOT want the Windows OS to be able to see my Mac hard drive. And when you boot Windows, it can. It can't access the contents or read the files, not without HFS software, but it CAN see that the Mac partition exists, and it CAN reformat it. And so can a Windows virus. For me, it's not good enough to know that "you probably won't get a Windows virus that wipes your drive." I'm spoiled, being used to Mac's freedom from viruses (which will always be greater than with Windows), and I like it that way. I want to be SURE that won't happen. If you dual-boot, the only way to keep your Mac safe from viruses totally is to physically disconnect the Mac hard disk, or never go on the Internet.

Plus if you dual boot you can't use your Mac and Windows apps TOGETHER. So much for workflow and sharing data. For everything but games, that matters.

I'd rather have Windows running at full speed at the SAME time as OS X, in a virtual hardware environment that protects the Mac partition from being reformatted by a Windows virus. Virtual PC--and probably others--will do just that. (It doesn't seem that Bochs does.)

Right on! I don't want dual booting for the very same reason. Windows running in a sandbox (ala VPC) is what I want, but the current emulated versions have been very slow.

 

[nagromme]

Looking at it another way with a Windows user going and purchasing a Mac there is at least some chance of them reloading OS X at some point vs. them going out and buying a Dell Latitude.

In fact, I think only a few people will even SAY they plan to never run OS X on their Mac... and far fewer will actually go through with that: because they know they've just bought a ton of software (iLife). The motivation to peek at what you paid good money for instead of throwing it out is strong. And probably to keep it around "for the heck of it"--exploring in private even while you badmouth OS X to your friends. And then comes the day when you do something pretty cool with GarageBand (or whatever) and sheepishly just have to show them...

 

[stealthboy]

I just have to ask.... WHY?

Why in the world would someone want to buy a Mac just to put Windows on it? It's like buying a new sportscar and putting a 3-cylinder econo-engine in it. Honestly, if you want to play your precious computer games, just keep your cheap-o Dell.

Buy a Mac to *get away from the Windows world*. You'll never look back.

I can't believe people are so intent on pursuing this. It really is a travesty. The Mac experience is the combination of hardware and software, and the brilliant design in both. Am I the only one who sees this? Is the world going mad?

 

[Sunrunner]

In fact, I think only a few people will even SAY they plan to never run OS X on of their Mac... and far fewer will actually go through with that: because they know they've just bought a ton of software (iLife). The motivation to peek at what you paid good money for instead of throwing it out is strong. And probably to keep it around "for the heck of it"--exploring in private even while you badmouth OS X to your friends. And then comes the day when you do something pretty cool with GarageBand (or whatever) and sheepishly just have to show them...

Exactly. The dualbooting possibilities are definitely the best oportunity that Apple has had, probably ever, to reach out and convert masses of windows users.

 

[nxent]

actually i want to put linux,windows, and mac on my comp

yeh but since os x is based on unix, and apple just switched its hardware to intel, doesn't this mean you'll be able to install linux apps on macs with much greater ease?

 

[Sunrunner]

yeh but since os x is based on unix, and apple just switched its hardware to intel, doesn't this mean you'll be able to install linux apps on macs with much greater ease?

It does, to a certain extent. THe problems would be similar to those with Windows and the EFI... once those issues are worked around, a user could have a Mac booting into as many OSes as they have space.

 

[Randall]

I just have to ask.... WHY?

Why in the world would someone want to buy a Mac just to put Windows on it? It's like buying a new sportscar and putting a 3-cylinder econo-engine in it. Honestly, if you want to play your precious computer games, just keep your cheap-o Dell.

Buy a Mac to *get away from the Windows world*. You'll never look back.

I can't believe people are so intent on pursuing this. It really is a travesty. The Mac experience is the combination of hardware and software, and the brilliant design in both. Am I the only one who sees this? Is the world going mad?

You just don't get it. There are countless software titles that are for windows only, and some people have a hard time letting go. Not only that, there are corporate in-house software applications that only run windows. On top of that, there are many great gaming titles that only run on windows. The macbook pro has enough horsepower to run a large portion of these games, and if you can have just one computer that can run all of the software you own, then why not do it?

 

[toneloco2881]

I just have to ask.... WHY?

Why in the world would someone want to buy a Mac just to put Windows on it? It's like buying a new sportscar and putting a 3-cylinder econo-engine in it. Honestly, if you want to play your precious computer games, just keep your cheap-o Dell.

Buy a Mac to *get away from the Windows world*. You'll never look back.

I can't believe people are so intent on pursuing this. It really is a travesty. The Mac experience is the combination of hardware and software, and the brilliant design in both. Am I the only one who sees this? Is the world going mad?

Yeah, I think you need to get over your blind prejudice. Step off that facade of a pedestal your on, and realize that we live in a world populated by windows users. Any incentive we give them to try out the Mac platform, is a win for Apple. Most people that try OS X grow to say they can't ever imagine going back to windows. Some Mac users seem like such elitist that I think they actually hurt the platform.

 

[SiliconAddict]

Would you prefer "I'd never put that OS full of mailware, spyware, some bugs, viruses, clunky interfaces, stupid noises, crashing, and productivity killing on my MacTel?"

Oh, but I'd still add "FUGLY as all get out XP," 'cause it is.

Funny I've had one virus in the past 10 years on Windows and that was on Windows 3.11. Spyware? Nope. Adware? None. Clunky interface? To each their own. I think I would rather slash my wrists then use Finder. Thankfully there are alternatives on OS X.
Stupid noises? Riiight. Crashing? Right. Because OS X is perfect. I can count on one hand how many times XP has crashed on me since 2001. Fugly? Again I'll repeat from the previous post. Grow up. Its a OS not a fricking religious icon. It’s a tool to do something. That is all. Stop being a zealot for a nanosecond and realize that. There are some of us that need the "tools" that Microsoft offers. If you can't wrap that around your shortsighted fanboi field of view I pity you. In the mean time those of us who use said tools in our profession will continue to do so without giving a crap what you think. However my original request stands to the author of the previous post: grow up.

 

[treblah]

I just have to ask.... WHY?

Why in the world would someone want to buy a Mac just to put Windows on it? It's like buying a new sportscar and putting a 3-cylinder econo-engine in it. Honestly, if you want to play your precious computer games, just keep your cheap-o Dell.

Buy a Mac to *get away from the Windows world*. You'll never look back.

I can't believe people are so intent on pursuing this. It really is a travesty. The Mac experience is the combination of hardware and software, and the brilliant design in both. Am I the only one who sees this? Is the world going mad?

You are the stereotypical Mac fan boy. Congrats.

Some people here are geeks, get excited about all technology, and are intrigued by the possibility of having a desktop/laptop capable of running multiple OSes.

 

[Randall]

Would you prefer "I'd never put that OS full of mailware, spyware, some bugs, viruses, clunky interfaces, stupid noises, crashing, and productivity killing on my MacTel?"

Oh, but I'd still add "FUGLY as all get out XP," 'cause it is.

Photorun has spoken. All hail the genius!

 

[treblah]

Funny I've had one virus in the past 10 years on Windows and that was on Windows 3.11. Spyware? Nope. Adware? None. Clunky interface?

I totally agree with you on the rest of your post but seriously, as a professional Admin you are not the typical user and your security record is unrealistic to the great unwashed masses.

 

[seashellz]

I'll bet hundreds of thousands of Offices, Gamers, IT Depts, schools and the general public, used to using XP, would switch to a Mac in a second if they could also run Windoze on their machines at native speeds

 

[VetteMan]

I just have to ask.... WHY?

Why in the world would someone want to buy a Mac just to put Windows on it? It's like buying a new sportscar and putting a 3-cylinder econo-engine in it. Honestly, if you want to play your precious computer games, just keep your cheap-o Dell.

Your analogy is flawed. Running Windows on an a Mac would be akin to having a V8/V12 engine in your sports car and allowing Displacement-on-Demand. You can have all the fun of the big engine (Mac) and still be able to run on only 4 or 6 cylinders (Windows) if you ever felt the need. In other words, the addition of Windows will in no way hamper the ability to run Mac apps.

I am waiting to pick up a Intel-based Mac until there are confirmed reports of Windows running natively or at least emulating at decent speed. If this does not happen, I will probably get one anyway since the 400MHz TiPB I am typing this on is starting to show its age.

I rarely have the need to run Windows apps but it would be great to have the option. Apple is always at the forefront of design and is usually pretty close to the cutting edge for performance. Best of both worlds.

$0.02