Quite a few runners (myself included) run for 3-4 hours at a time. A 1gb flash based player would be ideal. Are we a large segment of the population? Nope, but a large enough one that there are already tons of niche products aimed right at us. A one hour playlist just wouldn't cut it.BornAgainMac said:
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More on Flash Based iPods?
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homerun.
when people say "flash," i think "complact flash." am i way off base? am i out in left field? am i striking out on this one?
apple will never release a 512 mb ipod. i would be shocked if apple releases anything less than a 4gb ipod. can't the new mini be built around compact flash (which is cheaper than the drives which are currently being used)?
here's the call
March 8th announcement:
smaller, lighter, longer battery life, longer skip protection, better color collection, ipod mini. now you can hold 1,000 songs in your pocket for $199.
when people say "flash," i think "complact flash." am i way off base? am i out in left field? am i striking out on this one?
apple will never release a 512 mb ipod. i would be shocked if apple releases anything less than a 4gb ipod. can't the new mini be built around compact flash (which is cheaper than the drives which are currently being used)?
here's the call
March 8th announcement:
smaller, lighter, longer battery life, longer skip protection, better color collection, ipod mini. now you can hold 1,000 songs in your pocket for $199.
XForge said:
That's just plain silly. I assume you meant it to be. Besides, after seeing dozens of people over the years dropping their CD players, and breaking them, I don't see it as a real solution anymore.
Also, about margins, Apple has about a 32% GROSS margin. This comes out to about a 5% NET margin. They stated that they make about 11% on an iPod. Net or gross, I don't know. But it's the net that matters in the end, as it includes marketing etc.
Remember that Jobs made the joke about how the case makers made more on their products than Apple was making on the iPods.
Why I'd buy a flash iPod
Which is the exact reason that I own an iPod and a flash-based Rio (actually have owned 3 of them, and they keep breaking, but that's a different story). I would buy a flash-based iPod in a second.
On a related note, I have requested several times that Apple increase the flash cache inside the big iPods. It seems like 32 megs is a pretty skimpy amount for this day. If that were the case, it would be more possible to run with an iPod without it constantly crashing whenever it has to access the hard drive.
rjstanford said:
Which is the exact reason that I own an iPod and a flash-based Rio (actually have owned 3 of them, and they keep breaking, but that's a different story). I would buy a flash-based iPod in a second.
On a related note, I have requested several times that Apple increase the flash cache inside the big iPods. It seems like 32 megs is a pretty skimpy amount for this day. If that were the case, it would be more possible to run with an iPod without it constantly crashing whenever it has to access the hard drive.
appleface said:
If, and it's a big if, they do come out with one, it might not have removable memory. That's what the fuss is all about.
I just got a LEXAR 1GB compact flash card from Buy.com for $46.50 after a $30 rebate. Pretty cheap. Of course, it's a 4 speed card. Too slow for my big camera, but fast enough for my daughters' Nikon 5700. It's fast enough for a music player as well. But the removable cards make a player bigger. Thats why the older ones used Smartmedia cards. I guess they could go to SD cards instead. Now that they are getting so cheap, it might pay.
I saw a 512MB SD card on sale today in the email I get from Buy.com for $29.99 after rebate. Here's the page:
http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10370495&adid=17070&dcaid=17070
I think the point that we're all trying to make here is that Apple certainly can make a decent ~$150 iPod with 512mb of storage, maybe even a gig if prices on flash memory keep falling like a rock. Other companies are doing it that have much less resources than Apple.
It would really fill a huge market niche of people who 'want to be cool' and have an iPod but cannot afford them now the way they are. As lame as those people are, I feel like if Apple had something in the lower price range... they'd hold an even bigger part of the mp3 player market share.
It would really fill a huge market niche of people who 'want to be cool' and have an iPod but cannot afford them now the way they are. As lame as those people are, I feel like if Apple had something in the lower price range... they'd hold an even bigger part of the mp3 player market share.
Palador said:
True, but some people are just out of luck if they can't afford an iPod - you can't please everyone, and you'll never succeed if you try. What's next then, the hobo on the street who could only afford a $10 iPod? Better give him one too Apple, go on, address that need and that market niche! I realize there market for these people who can't quite afford an iPod is larger of course, but you see my point. There are lots of people who would "want to be cool" and would love it if Ferrari made a lower end $20,000 model to address that market niche, but it ain't gonna happen.
If Apple does indeed release a lower-end flash-based player, it won't be "just cuz people want them" - there are lots of things people want - it'll be for a number of right reasons, otherwise it won't happen.
~Shard~ said:True, but some people are just out of luck if they can't afford an iPod - you can't please everyone, and you'll never succeed if you try. What's next then, the hobo on the street who could only afford a $10 iPod? Better give him one too Apple, go on, address that need and that market niche! I realize there market for these people who can't quite afford an iPod is larger of course, but you see my point. There are lots of people who would "want to be cool" and would love it if Ferrari made a lower end $20,000 model to address that market niche, but it ain't gonna happen.
If Apple does indeed release a lower-end flash-based player, it won't be "just cuz people want them" - there are lots of things people want - it'll be for a number of right reasons, otherwise it won't happen.
There is really only one reason, IMHO, for Apple to consider releasing a flash iPod - market penetration. A $149 (or so) iPod puts Apple's iTMS in the hands of more people than they can reach with the current line-up. That helps Fairplay broaden the base, and if DRM survives, that is a good thing for Apple.
I know a lot of people who would be very interested in this product. Keep a very similar form factor to the mini (same size but horizontal layout?), give it a few bright colors (purple, please) with the finish of the current G5 iMac and iPod, not the metallic sheen of the mini. Sit back and watch it sell like crazy.
appleface said:
If Apple can sell an iPod mini with a 4GB CompactFlash Hard Disk in it for 249$US, there's no way they'd sell a 512MB Flash version for 199$US. I'd see them dropping the current iPod mini's price by 50$US, and releasing a 1GB Flash iPod mini for about 99-129$US.
appleface said:
Yes, normal microdrives are more expensive than those in your iPod mini, but Apple still doesn't get to buy them any cheaper than all the other companies making microdrive-based mp3-players.
Truth is the same for flash. What in the world makes you think Apple will get to buy flash-memory much cheaper than all the other mp3-player makers? 1GB flash mp3-player normally retails for between $200 and $300, with makers like "Jens of Sweden" topping out at about $400. Why would Apple get to buy flash so much cheaper than everybody else?
iGen said:
Now, this I can believe. (But lets hope for 6GB, and that time is right for a price-bump on flash so that they get to make 1GB for $149 or $169 or something.)
Forbes reported today that the ipod lost 5% market share in Sept. due to increased sales of flash based players. So, we just may see some flash players at MWSF.
daveway00 said:
Better late than never, although I hate to see Apple missing the boat on the holiday buying season. I really wish they had put out a flash iPod now and held back on the pPod until MWSF.
i'm tellin' ya...
apple will not release an ipod that holds less than 1,000 songs.
i mean, the sox won the series, so i guess apple might release a pod with less memory. however, i would bet (if i was a betting man) 5:1 that they will never release an ipod with less than 4gb of memory.
apple will not release an ipod that holds less than 1,000 songs.
i mean, the sox won the series, so i guess apple might release a pod with less memory. however, i would bet (if i was a betting man) 5:1 that they will never release an ipod with less than 4gb of memory.
1GB iPod mini, 250 songs, $199, first half of 2005. Mark my words!
(ok, I really don't know a thing..)
(ok, I really don't know a thing..)
Ha get your info right
The 5% they lost against the hp+ipod model so in fact they gain even more market I love it when so call experts do selecting data analysis....what ever it takes to take a stab at Apple remember Forbes is been saying for years that Apple is going out of business....
powermac666 said:
The 5% they lost against the hp+ipod model so in fact they gain even more market I love it when so call experts do selecting data analysis....what ever it takes to take a stab at Apple remember Forbes is been saying for years that Apple is going out of business....
Wash!! said:
Is it reasonable to assume that your comment refers not to my opinion [which you quoted], but to the post I was quoting when my opinion was presented? Otherwise, I don't understand what "info" you are refering to.
powermac666 said:Is it reasonable to assume that your comment refers not to my opinion [which you quoted], but to the post I was quoting when my opinion was presented? Otherwise, I don't understand what "info" you are refering to.
Sorry I got side track you know the been at work gets is the way of more important things
to quote : "as the apple turns" web site:
"There is a silverish lining, however, which is that of the 4.7 percentage points Apple lost in the hard drive player market, 3.6 of them went straight over to Hewlett-Packard and the Apple iPod + hp. In other words, the iPod still holds over 90 percent of that market, although Apple shares it with HP now. (The better news is that HP's 3.6 percent market share actually lands it in second place; Rio's in third with 2.8 percent, Creative took fourth with 2.6 percent, and iRiver grabbed fifth with 1.5 percent. And Dell and Sony are splitting a pizza in Nowheresville.)"
Wash!! said:Sorry I got side track you know the been at work gets is the way of more important things
to quote : "as the apple turns" web site:
"There is a silverish lining, however, which is that of the 4.7 percentage points Apple lost in the hard drive player market, 3.6 of them went straight over to Hewlett-Packard and the Apple iPod + hp. In other words, the iPod still holds over 90 percent of that market, although Apple shares it with HP now. (The better news is that HP's 3.6 percent market share actually lands it in second place; Rio's in third with 2.8 percent, Creative took fourth with 2.6 percent, and iRiver grabbed fifth with 1.5 percent. And Dell and Sony are splitting a pizza in Nowheresville.)"
Cool. The iPod now holds the top two positions
daveway00 said:
Others have said it elsewhere but I'll repeat the sentiment here. Blaming the 5% drop on flash-based players is inaccurate and misleading, since the 5% drop is in the hard-drive-based player market, which of course flash-based players are not part of.
The sky is falling!!!!!
So.... they lost a little market share I pointed that out in the post above already.... old news and it was going to happen sooner or later...
the fact is Apple ipod are on top of either one of the market segment you want to look up HD base or flash base. If apple is going to introduce a flash base ipod (if ever) they will do it after the holiday season is over. and own all of these segments.
Also during the presentation of the ipod photo he said that people buys those but never get use and I for one and my daughters are good samples of that fact, I have a RCA lycra 512 or what ever it is now collecting dust in a drawer somewhere used for one week gave to my daughter used it for an hour and that was the end of it...she now uses my 1G ipod and she is never going back btw she is 12 years old...even my 9 years old use the player and toss it after a 1/2 hour now she wants a mini..
I'm sure I'm not the only case there must be thousand if not millions of people that this has happen sure they buy the cheap flash player and then they found that is as useful as a pet rock....
Poff said:
So.... they lost a little market share I pointed that out in the post above already.... old news and it was going to happen sooner or later...
the fact is Apple ipod are on top of either one of the market segment you want to look up HD base or flash base. If apple is going to introduce a flash base ipod (if ever) they will do it after the holiday season is over. and own all of these segments.
Also during the presentation of the ipod photo he said that people buys those but never get use and I for one and my daughters are good samples of that fact, I have a RCA lycra 512 or what ever it is now collecting dust in a drawer somewhere used for one week gave to my daughter used it for an hour and that was the end of it...she now uses my 1G ipod and she is never going back btw she is 12 years old...even my 9 years old use the player and toss it after a 1/2 hour now she wants a mini..
I'm sure I'm not the only case there must be thousand if not millions of people that this has happen sure they buy the cheap flash player and then they found that is as useful as a pet rock....
Wash!! said:So.... they lost a little market share I pointed that out in the post above already.... old news and it was going to happen sooner or later...
the fact is Apple ipod are on top of either one of the market segment you want to look up HD base or flash base. If apple is going to introduce a flash base ipod (if ever) they will do it after the holiday season is over. and own all of these segments.
Also during the presentation of the ipod photo he said that people buys those but never get use and I for one and my daughters are good samples of that fact, I have a RCA lycra 512 or what ever it is now collecting dust in a drawer somewhere used for one week gave to my daughter used it for an hour and that was the end of it...she now uses my 1G ipod and she is never going back btw she is 12 years old...even my 9 years old use the player and toss it after a 1/2 hour now she wants a mini..
I'm sure I'm not the only case there must be thousand if not millions of people that this has happen sure they buy the cheap flash player and then they found that is as useful as a pet rock....
Tons of these flash players have sold because people like the idea of a small, inexpensive portable music player. The reason they don't get used is because they are pieces of crap, and that is where Apple steps in. Apple doesn't invent so much as it innovates and improves upon what is out there already. The original iPod improved upon the HD-based player, and Apple can and should do the same thing with the lower end, IMHO.