More Than a Dozen Apps With 'Misleading or Flat-Out Inaccurate' Privacy Labels Found on App Store

[4jasontv]

You think every developer knows every bit of the software? How do you expect a developer to know EVERYTHING that is being tracked? They might not have even touched the code for some of the tracking.

Intentional ignorance shouldn't be a defense. If the project is so large that it has multiple developers than there is a lead developer who would need to take responsibility for their code produced. If that means they read through code and verify it does what they say than they read through code and verify it does what they say.

If the code is pushed out to users than I expect someone who is being held accountable put their eyes on it to ensure it accurately represents what they claim to be releasing.

 

[notrack]

I cannot fathom why the Amazon app is using Health & Fitness Data

eta: Unless its because I use biometrics??

Because they take precise note what kind of health and fitness products you buy or not-buy. Or non-fitness products. They have data and an opinion about your health and fitness.

 

[Abazigal]

This is where the adage "become the change you want to see" could not be more true.

Of course there are going to be dishonest companies who underreport the types of data their app accesses. Moreso than anything else, this system is going to require the support of customers to help check that said apps are adhering to their privacy policies and report those who don't.

Name and shame these companies and show no quarter.

 

[Lemon Olive]

Lol. who cares.

 

[cmaier]

If random people can see the problem, people who work for Apple should be able to do it to a greater extent than they're doing.

They need to develop more methods to test, not just focusing on the easy ways to test.

Who are these random people that you are claiming see the problem? And who said they aren’t testing? As per forum rules, please provide your evidence for the claim that Apple is “focusing on the easy ways to test.”:

 

[amartinez1660]

Are you joking or have you never had a job that you're forced to do something against your beliefs or opinions? I have never had a job where I can choose not to do what I believe is the wrong thing to do.

You cannot fault the developers for doing their jobs.

The companies that hire these developers won't give a crap if they get fired or accountable, they'll hire another wave of starving student devs.

It won't work.

I understood it also as when using suitcase companies as shields... the company goes bankrupt or burnt while the individuals behind it escape the full consequences sometimes.

What I understand by “making the developer accountable” would be the person that willingly submits and fills up the application knowing quite well about being dishonest. If there was a chain of command, ok, someone “just fill the forms” but someone told them to fill the forms, at some point the responsible person (and not an ethereal company name) will be held accountable.

Also, I understand that some people are just doing their jobs but the more devs stand up against forced overtime, bad policies, dishonesty and sneaky practices the harder it will become for said company. They will have to stop it and refresh their ways or else valuable devs won’t want to ever apply for said company, “starving students” might even start avoiding it as other companies might not want to hire people that have worked there (i.e avoiding tainting their careers from the start), reputation goes a very long way I think.

Also, don’t know, I’m not totally against what the op posted... exaggeration: if a company asks me to steal and I do steal I’ll pay serious consequences (unless I was forced at gun point or something). If I’m ever asked that, I’m out the second after.

 

[Apple_Robert]

This is where the adage "become the change you want to see" could not be more true.

Of course there are going to be dishonest companies who underreport the types of data their app accesses. Moreso than anything else, this system is going to require the support of customers to help check that said apps are adhering to their privacy policies and report those who don't.

Name and shame these companies and show no quarter.

I agree. And if the customers found on MR won''t do it, who will? I know a lot of people may think Apple is big enough they should be able to properly monitor the developers in the App Store but, it is impossible for Apple to handle on its own. " No man is an island unto himself." John Donne

 

[MacBH928]

I always wondered how would Apple know whats going on in the background with these apps? How would they know what will they collect or not?

Honor system? 😂😂😂😂😂

Maybe Apple could do a seal of quality, like Nintendo's , developer can submit the source code for Apple to look at it then Apple would compile it and put it in the app store for an extra fee. Then it can have the Apple guarantee label. Not sure if this is practical though.

 

[johnsc3]

with apple having architected (?) the system from top to bottom, i'm kinda surprised these labels weren't automatically generated.

i am not surprised, however, that people weren't honest with the system.

Great point! I hope before iOS15, they work it out.

 

[johnnytravels]

Everyone complaining probably hasn’t fully understood that Apple’s privacy play is just that. A play of pretend, where a lot of security and honesty is enacted but with no consequences for the real world.
Apple really won’t enforce anything and collects your data too.

 

[SWAON]

Again, Apple cares only to get their profit. That's all. If they cared, they would implement things right, so devs won't have a workarounds. Don't know who to blame first. Honestly, everyone is desperate for their profit.. and the end user is the milked cow as usual.

 

[beastforum]

The best thing to do is for somebody to start a group and all chip in financially. Any dev blatantly lying about the data they get from us, all take them to court for damages. Will soon stop them.

 

[Tech198]

What is Apple saying: developers are flogging the privacy rules like Facebook ?

Can't trust anyone these days.

 

[I7guy]

[...] collects your data too.

What data?

 

[davepete]

I'm an app developer, and I've filled out these privacy forms. For apps with no advertising, it's pretty straightforward: the only data I collect is crash data if the app crashes. It's not linked to any user AFAIK, but I see what devices and OS version they were using. I also let users send me email with screenshots, but that's not really a privacy issue since the user initiates sending the email. But for apps with AdMob advertising, it's unclear how to mark the privacy forms. Google won't tell me the correct answers, so I dunno how to mark the forms. Maybe Apple should just talk to Google about that, because developers won't know. Does Google AdMob use IDFA to track the person, or just the device, or just the general location of the person's device? Or did Google abandon IDFA? And how would I know?

 

[SuperMatt]

I'm an app developer, and I've filled out these privacy forms. For apps with no advertising, it's pretty straightforward: the only data I collect is crash data if the app crashes. It's not linked to any user AFAIK, but I see what devices and OS version they were using. I also let users send me email with screenshots, but that's not really a privacy issue since the user initiates sending the email. But for apps with AdMob advertising, it's unclear how to mark the privacy forms. Google won't tell me the correct answers, so I dunno how to mark the forms. Maybe Apple should just talk to Google about that, because developers won't know. Does Google AdMob use IDFA to track the person, or just the device, or just the general location of the person's device? Or did Google abandon IDFA? And how would I know?

It seems like it would be helpful for Apple to have a list of common ad platforms and you could select which one(s) are used by the app one is submitting.

 

[Rob_2811]

While Apple are still taking that Google money a serving up to its users as the search default while plastering 'Privacy, that's iPhone' all over billboards it's difficult to take Apple very seriously on privacy.

They are obviously more that happy to profit from the ad tracking business.

 

[Rob_2811]

.

 

[I7guy]

While Apple are still taking that Google money a serving up to its users as the search default while plastering 'Privacy, that's iPhone' all over billboards it's difficult to take Apple very seriously on privacy.

They are obviously more that happy to profit from the ad tracking business.

The counter argument to this hyperbole is no it’s not. The “money” has nothing to do with the way the internet operates not will it alter its’ operation. If google paid apple $0 it would not alter a darn thing, technologically speaking.

Good for Apple that they can command this.

 

[Ethosik]

Intentional ignorance shouldn't be a defense. If the project is so large that it has multiple developers than there is a lead developer who would need to take responsibility for their code produced. If that means they read through code and verify it does what they say than they read through code and verify it does what they say.

If the code is pushed out to users than I expect someone who is being held accountable put their eyes on it to ensure it accurately represents what they claim to be releasing.

That does not work well in massive enterprise software. Do you think there is one single lead developer of Windows or macOS for example that knows EVERYTHING? It is just not possible. And frankly calling it intentional ignorance is insulting. You cannot expect someone to know every line of code in an enterprise system. And yes there are some iOS apps that are massively large and complex. How is it "intentional ignorance" if your job requires you to only one in one specific area of the software?

"You John Smith, why did you take so long with your work?"
"Sorry I was busy memorizing every single line of code"

This is just not possible. And how is it "intentional"

Boss: "Your job is to work on character animations"
Employee: "Okay"

Yet its "intentional" ignorance that they did not read and memorize EVERY OTHER line of code not responsible for character animations? Please.

 

[gwynnp]

You can disagree with Apple's approach, but at least they are on the record with their position and showing how they're addressing it. This, as opposed to Facebook's "trust us, we won't misuse your info..", which is just a crock.

 

[4jasontv]

That does not work well in massive enterprise software. Do you think there is one single lead developer of Windows or macOS for example that knows EVERYTHING? It is just not possible. And frankly calling it intentional ignorance is insulting. You cannot expect someone to know every line of code in an enterprise system. And yes there are some iOS apps that are massively large and complex. How is it "intentional ignorance" if your job requires you to only one in one specific area of the software?

"You John Smith, why did you take so long with your work?"
"Sorry I was busy memorizing every single line of code"

This is just not possible. And how is it "intentional"

Boss: "Your job is to work on character animations"
Employee: "Okay"

Yet its "intentional" ignorance that they did not read and memorize EVERY OTHER line of code not responsible for character animations? Please.

Being difficult isn't a defense for not doing the right thing.

There are many people who don't have the time or knowledge to pay their taxes. They still have to do it. That's why the government has audits that come with compound interest. To catch the people who think they can get away with it either out of intentional fraud or intentional ignorance.

 

[jonnysods]

I hadn't really thought through the man power required by Apple to verify this stuff - should be interesting to see how they get it done, and if they punish people who seem to purposefully mislead customers.

 

[Ethosik]

Being difficult isn't a defense for not doing the right thing.

There are many people who don't have the time or knowledge to pay their taxes. They still have to do it. That's why the government has audits that come with compound interest. To catch the people who think they can get away with it either out of intentional fraud or intentional ignorance.

You will get fired wherever you work with that attitude. If your job is to handle the UI development, you don’t waste dozens of hours looking at other areas of the code.

The tax argument is seriously flawed. You are required to do your taxes. As a developer, especially with large code based, you are NOT required to study and memorize every line of code. In some cases it’s just not possible.

So your tax argument - it’s a requirement. Your boss asks you do only work on the iOS app’s UI development. This is also a requirement. You cannot avoid your job requirement unless you want to get fired.

Even if you do know what the app is doing, sorry, but people need paychecks to live. It’s insane to expect every single person to put their foot down. They will get fired on the spot and be replaced so fast. Find another job while you keep working.

 

[4jasontv]

You will get fired wherever you work with that attitude. If your job is to handle the UI development, you don’t waste dozens of hours looking at other areas of the code.

The tax argument is seriously flawed. You are required to do your taxes. As a developer, especially with large code based, you are NOT required to study and memorize every line of code. In some cases it’s just not possible.

So your tax argument - it’s a requirement. Your boss asks you do only work on the iOS app’s UI development. This is also a requirement. You cannot avoid your job requirement unless you want to get fired.

Even if you do know what the app is doing, sorry, but people need paychecks to live. It’s insane to expect every single person to put their foot down. They will get fired on the spot and be replaced so fast. Find another job while you keep working.

I have that attitude now and it keeps my job. The law says I am responsible and I take that seriously. I wouldn't recommend working someplace that asks you to break the law, or risk your career just because it appears difficult or expensive to do the right thing. Add inconvenience to the list of things that are not a defense.

The tax argument is operating from the same point I have held all along. If they were held responsible they would find the time to do it.

Trying to find examples of why it might be difficult doesn't help anyone but the people who lie. They don't need help justifying their behavior as they already have dismissed any notion of doing the right thing.

If the developer industry is so unstable that pushing back against leadership to do the right thing will get you fired than the industry is in desperate need of stricter regulation. What you just said tells me that developers don't have the resources or defense to protect themselves when they do the right thing.