Mouse Dilemma

Discussion in 'Mac and PC Games' started by newguyben, Mar 8, 2010.

  1. newguyben macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2010
    #1
    Well I'm a pretty new MacBook Pro owner and had a couple questions about a mouse. Right now I'm just using a small wireless microsoft mouse I used with my previous PC. Its just nowhere near as smooth as I would like it to be, regular tasks get a bit annoying but mostly use it on the occasions I play a game, bought AOE 3 for Mac. I have read on other posts about how the mouse just isn't as smooth as it should be on a mac but is there a certain mouse out there that is smoother than the rest or comes with software to make this better? Hadn't really found a legitimate solution in my searches on the forums. Would be nice to have a comfy mouse to play some of these Valve games here in April.
     
  2. ReviewPC macrumors member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2010
    Location:
    USA
    #2
    Best gaming mouse is basically anything Razer. :)
     
  3. StopSign24 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2010
    #3
    I use the Razer Orochi and love it, I'd recommend it to anyone who is looking for a small bluetooth gaming mouse.
     
  4. teidon macrumors 6502

    teidon

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    #4
    I'll second this. The only downsides are that it goes to sleep a little too quickly and the Mac drivers are quite useless. You can only change DPI settings with it, but can't program the buttons. But you could use other programs for that.

    Other than those issues, it's really nice mouse. Seems to work pretty accurately on different kind of surfaces (though mousemat is always recommended) and lift-off distance is very short. It's small though, so it's definately not for those who prefers palm grip.

    Razer's Gaming Mouse Guide
     
  5. syndony macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    #5
    I adore my G9 - not overwhelmingly expensive, but has so many customization options for it its unreal - looks damn good and performs better than any Razer (trash) mouse Ive ever owned. Plus, like Mussels said, you dont have to have a clicking scroll wheel with the G9, you press a button on the underside of the mouse that engages a microgear - bam, silent scrolling.
     
  6. Libertine Lush macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    #6
    By smoothness, does that mean lag?

    I'm debating whether to get a Bluetooth or wireless (USB receiver) mouse. I read a lot about Bluetooth mice, including the Razer Orochi, having lag issues, but I can't figure out yet if wireless mice also have this issue.
     
  7. tkingart macrumors 6502

    tkingart

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2010
    Location:
    West Coast
    #7
    Do NOT get the Magic Mouse for gaming. If someone at Apple is bored today and reads this, PLEASE smooth the bloody edges out!

    Oh yeah, Razor is the way to go for gaming mice. ;)

    PS. Avoid Microsoft mice, the last 3 I bought died within 2 weeks of normal use. (no joke)
     
  8. Libertine Lush macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    #8
    When I had the 27" iMac, I loved the Magic Mouse. Best external mouse I've ever had for general purpose (especially after your download freeware like BetterTouchTool to compliment it) use. However, when I tried the Bioshock demo I soon noticed it's horrible for gaming because there's no distinct left and right click buttons.

    Concerning your enthusiasm for Razer for gaming, would you say that also applies to their Bluetooth mouse, the Orochi. Searching this forum and reading Amazon's customer reviews, there's no shortage of complaints about its lag.
     
  9. JackAxe macrumors 68000

    JackAxe

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2004
    Location:
    In a cup of orange juice.
    #9
    I second a Razer Orochi. I bought one the other week, because I was getting interference with my wireless mouse for some reason.

    It's a great mouse when set to 4000 DPI -- so when using the cord. But on my PC, I'll stick with my Logitech G9. Best mouse I've owned hands down. Razer's drivers are absolute crap!
     
  10. JackAxe macrumors 68000

    JackAxe

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2004
    Location:
    In a cup of orange juice.
    #10
    The Orochi tracks better than the Magic mouse in Bluetooth and of course way better corded. My friend has one of those EVIL Apple mice, so we compared. :)
     
  11. Libertine Lush macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    #11
    Is that to say you don't use it's Bluetooth mode to game? Are there lag/delay issues for you as well?
     
  12. JackAxe macrumors 68000

    JackAxe

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2004
    Location:
    In a cup of orange juice.
    #12
    I game on my PC with my G9. I don't game on my Macs these days.

    I use this mouse only on my MacBook Pro, which also has a bootcamp partition with Win7 installed.

    But to answer your question about Bluetooth, it has yet to lag when using it in that mode, it's just 4000 DPI tracks that much better than 2000 DPI. I can move a greater distance with the higher DPI with minimal movement and it's still dead on -- not to confuse this with mouse acceleration. It's something you can feel. I don't know if you use Wacoms, but it's kind of like like moving from the first generation of Intuos to any of the newer ones.
     
  13. Libertine Lush macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    #13
    Suddenly that sways me back toward possibly getting the Orochi instead of the Deathadder or Logitech Performance MX. Thanks.
     
  14. ltldrummerboy macrumors 68000

    ltldrummerboy

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2007
    #14
    I'll add another vote for Razer. The Deathadder is probably their most popular product and it's the one I own. Fantastic mouse, but if you have small hands it might be a little big.

    Honestly though, anything Logitech or Razer will be great. Don't look into DPI and all those specs too much. Any gaming mouse should suit your needs.

    PS- I've heard good things about SteelSeries but they don't currently have Mac drivers available for their mice.
    PPS- Don't get a Bluetooth mouse for gaming. Some of the wireless mice that have a dongle are fine, but bluetooth has a tiny bit of lag. I used to use a Logitech V470.
     
  15. Libertine Lush macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    #15
    Indeed the size of the Orochi concerns me. The Logitech and Deathadder seem like a perfect fit, but I'm also so keen on getting wireless, and Bluetooth if possible.
     
  16. Sambo110 macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2007
    Location:
    Australia
    #16
    What about the Razer Mamba, I thought that was meant to be one of the best mice out there?
     
  17. Libertine Lush macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    #17
    The Mamba was the standout when I first started my research, but I quickly found 2 issues with it I didn't like. The driver support for OSX, amongst the several Razer mice I checked, seems to be the most troublesome with the Mamba. Although most of the Razer's have very limited, and even no, OSX support. And although the Mamba is wireless, it doesn't have a tiny USB receiver. Instead it's a USB cable that connects to the charging base, which also acts as the receiver. If you're using a desktop, it's a non-issue with the cable running behind the tower, even a plus. But as a laptop user, wanting as little clutter as possible, this wireless Mamba won't look so wireless.
     
  18. teidon macrumors 6502

    teidon

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    #18
    I have Razer Orochi, and I like it a lot. Basicly the only two downsides of it are bad Mac drivers and the mouse goes to sleep/hibernate too quickly. After Valve revealed Steam for Mac, Razer said they are going to make Mac drivers for all of their current mice and improve the existing ones. So there's hoping Razer is going to release a good Mac driver for Orochi, and other mice too. The sleep/hibernate issue is slightly annoying. Basicly, if you don't move the mouse for 3 or so seconds, it goes to sleep to save battery. After you start moving it again, it takes a while (about a second) for it to be fully operational again (mouse cursor will work weirdly during this time).


    Bluetooth mice are always going to have little bit of input lag (unless I remember wrong, Orochi has little under 20ms), that can't be helped. But unless you are truely hardcore gamer, or a pro-gamer, you aren't going to notice it. And if you were either, you'd know it better than to look for Bluetooth mouse. :)


    Also high DPI values are often greatly overvalued. The way how I prefer to set my mouse is so called 1:1 tracking. That means that every "movement command" (mouse ticks) the mouse sends is directly converted to movement on screen (1 tick = 1 pixel movement = 1:1 tracking). To do this you turn off mouse acceleration, turn off any software mouse speed "manipulation" / speed controlling, and then set the speed of the cursor/mouse by changing the DPI.

    Setting your mouse's DPI to 4000 requires you to lower mouse speed by using software (unless you have really high resolution screen). It basicly means that the mouse sends for example 3 ticks, but only 1 of them is used - the software simply filters out the other 2 to lower the speed. I use 1000DPI on my Orochi, and it's perfect for my needs.


    And finally, good mousemat is very very important. A 80€ mouse might work like a 5€ mouse if it's used on wrong kind of surface. For example I had Razer Deathadder (good mouse, btw), but if I used it on my desk without mousemat, the mouse were hardly able to track the surface at all. Place a white QT Qpad between the table and the mouse and it's the best mouse ever.
     
  19. Libertine Lush macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    #19
    Razer released new OSX Orochi drivers last month. Have you tried it yet?: http://www.razersupport.com/index.php?_m=downloads&_a=viewdownload&downloaditemid=435&nav=0,39

    So other than the lag that occurs after 3 seconds of inactivity, it works fine otherwise? And how does the size of it work for you? I'd much rather have a mouse contoured and sized like the Logitech Performance MX, but I'm also so intent to get Bluetooth to minimize wires.
     
  20. deadwulfe macrumors 6502a

    deadwulfe

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2010
    #20
    +1 on the Deathadder. I just got one a few weeks ago and I love it. I was using a Razer PRO|Click Mobile, but was having problems with stuttering mouse over bluetooth while set up on my desk, so a wired connection was a requirement for a new desk mouse.
     
  21. Huntn macrumors P6

    Huntn

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #21
    Mostly I prefer trackballs for gaming. I must be a dieing breed. Don't have to move the wrist around and I find it very precise. The problem is that the selection today of trackballs is very limited as to about 10 years ago. When they stopped making MS Trackball Explorer, the most comfortable ergonomic trackball ever made (although they can still be found for sale online- check this price at Amazon :eek:) I managed to collect 3 of them for future use. :)
     
  22. H00513R macrumors 6502a

    H00513R

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2010
    Location:
    Indiana
    #22
    I loved my Razer Copperhead, but only used it on a PC. If it works anywhere close on a Mac then I recommend it.
     
  23. teidon macrumors 6502

    teidon

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    #23
    Yea I have it, and while it's an improvement, they are still lacking features. Well, mainly support for macros actually, but that's kind of important thing. Currently you can only bind single "keys" to the various buttons. For example "Left Click", "Right Click" or bind a single keyboard key to the buttons (one per button that is). But what you can't do is bind things like "Go backward/forward" (for example in web browsers) and because you can only bind single keys, you can't bind Command+left for "Go backwards".

    But as said, Razer has promised to improve their Mac drivers, so there's hoping that that isn't the last version of Orochi driver for Mac.

    Yea, I like it alot. The size, well that's highly personal. What's a perfect mouse for me, may be horrible for you. But here's a bit of my "mousing history". Maybe it helps you to make a decision to one or the other direction.


    Some long time ago when Logitech were the king of the hill, I unsuprisingly were a Logitech "fan". And as Logitech started to shape their mice more and more for them to fit better one's hand to reduce wrist/hand pain, I started to believe that that is the way to go, buying Logitech mouse after another.

    But then for reasons I can't remember anymore, I went and bought a Razer Copperhead. I think because my wrist/hand hurt constantly even though the Logitech mouse I had was very much shaped for right hand and thus was supposed to minimize wrist/hand pain. Anyways, Copperhead is ambidextrous (fits equally well for both hands), and is thus exactly what I believed a mouse should not be. Well, got it in my hand, and immediately I noticed that it was many times better shaped mouse than the "super shaped" Logitech it replaced. And wrist pain went away too. Really good mouse too, btw.

    That mouse broke though, the left button started to work funny. Common issue with Razer mice: the buttons break.

    So bought another mouse: Razer Deathadder. This time around right handed mouse, but not as "super shaped" as Logitech mice usually are. Really fantastic mouse, especially with white QT Qpad mousemat (color matters too).

    But a button broke from it too.

    (For the lefties out there, Razer released left hand edition of Deathadder a while ago)

    So I yet again needed a new mouse, and looked for a Bluetooth mouse this time around. The common "problem" with them all were, and still is, that they are "laptop mice", that is, they are small and not necessarily very accurate. And I though that my hand would need to rest on the mouse for better ergonomics, but small mouse would obviously make that impossible. But as I wanted Bluetooth mouse to go with my MacBook Pro (which I use mainly as a desktop machine), Razer Orochi was the best option out there.

    [A review-like part of this Text Wall starts from here about Razer Orochi]

    When I opened the box and got it in my hand, my first impression of it was that it was small. Too small. Way too small. It would be a pain to use in a long run - literally. But few days of use, and I found that it's really handy mouse. Only my fingertips touches it, which makes using it very accurate. I can do small movements by just moving my fingers (finger muscles are very accurate), for little longer moves, I can turn my wrist (less accurate muscles there) and for long moves I have to move my whole arm (inaccurate muscles). It makes for very accurate mousing, and because most moves are done with just fingers or wrist, my hand can rest on the mousemat instead (wrist support might be a good idea too).

    Though I have noticed that if I have to move the mouse from one edge of the mat to the other a lot, like during a long game session (though not all games require long moves), it is little "taxing" for my hand. But as they say, you should take breaks every hour or so when using computer and/or playing games. But then, I haven't had any pains in my right hand, it just gets a bit tired when I need to keep it in the air a lot (can't rest my hand during long moves and a lot of them = tired hand).

    It also tracks my QT Qpad like a dream, never missing even the smallest move I make, never jumping over even a single pixel on the screen (except when it's waking up from sleep, when it does both) and to top it all off, the cursor doesn't move at all (some times one, max two pixels) when lifting it off the surface and lowering it back. (This is called lift-off distance: how high the mouse needs to be lifted off before it stops tracking the surface. The higher, the more random movement happens on the screen during lift-off, so low lift-off distance is preferred for better accuracy)

    Also to make it even more perfect, the DPI can be adjusted in 125DPI increments, which means I can adjust the speed of 1:1 tracking precisely for my needs. Also it has the so called Razer Synapse memory, which means that your mouse settings are stored on the mouse itself, so you can attach it to another computer and button configurations and DPI settings are like on your computer. It must be noted though that mouse speed is a software setting in the Operating System, and it will affect your mouse speed independent from any DPI setting. But you can for example use Windows machine to set macros for the buttons, and then use it on your Mac. You can also define 5 different DPI values and switch between them using two of the mouse buttons, no software required for that.


    So will Orochi work for you? I don't know. But unless you have had bad experience with small mice, you could give it a try. Although a try that will set you back about 60-80 euros/dollars in case you didn't like it. But if Bluetooth mouse is what you want, I don't think there's better choice than Razer Orochi. It's small, very very small, but because of it, it's very accurate too. The downsides are the sleep issue and the not-so-good Mac drivers. But there's the promise for better drivers, and the firmware of the mouse is flashable, so it might be possible to fix the sleep issue with firmware update. Though it's currently bot possible to update the firmware on Mac, you need Windows for that. But maybe that issue too will be remedied in the hopefully-not-too-far-far-away future.


    I actually used a Logitech trackball a long time ago. I also found it very accurate to use my thumb to use the ball, but that mouse had the problem that while it tracked slow movement with very good accuracy, the same couldn't be said for fast moves. If I turned the ball fast enough the cursor started to move the opposite direction. >_> A sign of inaccurate sensor, and after getting sick of that "feature" I bought a normal mouse. One problem with trackball mice is that you can't have as many buttons as in normal mice. But for ergonomics they are good. But then again, I don't consider having had problems with ergonomics after moving away from Logitech mice.


    The hunt for the Perfect Mouse is never ending though. And as I said earlier, what is perfect mouse for one, might be the most horrible for another.



    PS: If any of you have pain in your wrists/hands/arms, consider giving NSD Powerball a try. Could be a huge help.
     
  24. Libertine Lush macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    #24
    I woke up this morning thinking maybe I'll just go for the Deathadder--looks ergonomically perfect, no lag concerns. Then I read your post and now I'm leaning back to Orochi again. Thanks for contributing to my indecision, but mostly thanks for such thorough and informative insight, teidon.
     
  25. JackAxe macrumors 68000

    JackAxe

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2004
    Location:
    In a cup of orange juice.
    #25
    LOL Libertine! Just buy the mouse already. :D

    Do you live near a retail location that sells them? if so, there's always a return if you're not happy. :)

    The only thing I'm not used to on this mouse, is that the scroll-wheel doesn't tilt right or left. It's no big deal though, since I use the glass-trackpad for this task.
     

Share This Page