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They're right, Apple are playing crybaby -- in particular not allowing alternative browser engines on iPad because it's not 'iOS.' What a ridiculous move.

I've vacillated between supporting EU and Apple in this scenario because I understand both perspectives. Ultimately I think our devices should be as free and open as the end user sees fit.

If Apple were *motivated* to support more app stores and browser engines, they could figure out an elegant way to do so whilst remaining competitive. If this EU system seems clunky and disjointed, know that it's because Apple have intentionally made it so. We live in a world where you have to pick between Android or iOS. Period. Anyone claiming you can simply choose not to use those devices is not a serious person. Apple and Google cannot have a totalitarian say over what these devices can and cannot do.

Look at how many devs choose the Mac App Store when other app stores and independent release systems exist. They choose it because it's genuinely a good option on both the part of the developer and end user.

Also "security concerns" regarding alternative app stores sound mostly unfounded considering what makes iOS devices secure and private is the sandboxing and permissions system which works on a system level, Apple 'reviewing' each app that gets submitted to the App Store is mostly to check for content violations rather than malicious code I think. See macOS as an example and that's an even more difficult system to keep secure/private because software can optionally run helper processes at a root level.
Technically Firefox would be the one considered being the cry baby in this scenario. Since Apple updates based on the laws doing as little as possible just as Spotify Google or any company with an obligation to its share holders would do. And Firefox is whining that the positive outcome isn’t as positive as they had hoped. If EU wants the law to do more they can just update the law to be more explicit.
 
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Well, and Apple TV doesn't even have browser support, which makes it pretty much a useless device considering that many TV viewing apps only work over a browser.
 
And by forcing Apple to remove parts or all of the walled garden - making iOS the same as Android - effectives moves that choice to one!

I am not arguing the merits of keeping iOS closed or opening it up. I am saying that people wanting governments to force Apple to open iOS really seem to want an Android phone and its ecosystem, but want one with an apple logo on the back.

There is a lot more than just side loading vs no side loading in comparing Android to iOS. Wanting to opening it up to side loading has little to change on the underlying differences in the os and security (next to zero if not zero difference).

There thing about the UX and what people see as iOS being smoother which is really just iOS prioritization UI and UI animations above everything else at the sacrifice of other performance. Android UI thread as the same priority as everything else so in conflict or over load it might look jerky. Drawback to Apple methods is total process will take longer but it looks a lot smoother.

Either way huge difference between the 2. The cores are different.
 
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The whole business model of Apple is basically „keeping everything to ourselves“ in the name of „privacy“ when it’s actually just all about 💰💰💰 Apple doesn’t care about what is convenient to us as a end user really.

It’s also quite interesting how you hear so little from Alphabet and Meta, which have actually way more gatekeeper restrictions put upon themselves but they are not crying as much about it.

Is it just me or does the whole thing take away their buzz from the Vision Pro?
Since you mentioned Vision Pro, I wonder if the VisionOS is limited that way or you can install apps like on a Mac. It's an instant no-no for me if it's like iOS and simply can not be a "spatial computer" for me. That's a computer about as much as an iPad is. Whether it has that and has a Terminal app like a Mac is what makes or breaks the whole thing for me. The apps I need are not on the App Store and a lot of them are on github or a self-hosted .dmg, the developers would have 0 interest in developing stuff for the Vision Pro.
 
I blame devs for not having the courage to vote with their wallet by leaving en mass.

Agreed, if devs don't like it they should pull their apps and go Android/alt-store, but also:

I blame consumers that bought into the Apple ecosystem knowing full well it doesn't fit with what they want/need and then just complain about it.

If these consumers had voted with their wallets and bought into the Android system, that seems to suit them better, perhaps Apple would have lost enough market share for them to provide the flexibility these folks want/need. The issue is there are like 12 of them, not enough to move the needle.

So here we are, lobbyists and special interests coercing bureaucrats into slowly regulating away a unique and great ecosystem in favor of a bland vanilla one that IMHO only a few want.
 
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Agreed, if devs don't like it they should pull their apps and go Android/alt-store, but also:

I blame consumers that bought into the Apple ecosystem knowing full well it doesn't fit with what they want/need and then just complain about it.

If these consumers had voted with their wallets and bought into the Android system, that seems to suit them better, perhaps Apple would have lost enough market share for them to provide the flexibility these folks want/need. The issue is there are like 12 of them, not enough to move the needle.

So here we are, lobbyists and special interests coercing bureaucrats into slowly regulating away a unique and great ecosystem in favor of a bland vanilla one that IMHO only a few want.
TLDR, everyone is to blame to bring Apple where they are today, including Apple themselves.
This is exactly why We can never have nice things.
 
There is a lot more than just side loading vs no side loading in comparing Android to iOS. Wanting to opening it up to side loading has little to change on the underlying differences in the os and security (next to zero if not zero difference).

There thing about the UX and what people see as iOS being smoother which is really just iOS prioritization UI and UI animations above everything else at the sacrifice of other performance. Android UI thread as the same priority as everything else so in conflict or over load it might look jerky. Drawback to Apple methods is total process will take longer but it looks a lot smoother.

Either way huge difference between the 2. The cores are different.
Obviously. But the point of all these comments is functionality. People (EU, many here) want iOS to be functionally the same as Android. The stories, threads, and comments are about functionality, not core OS.
 
Obviously. But the point of all these comments is functionality. People (EU, many here) want iOS to be functionally the same as Android. The stories, threads, and comments are about functionality, not core OS.
I see the biggest thing people like you are hanging on those stories is they seem to think the only thing is side loading, RCS support instead of Apple intentionally gimping it.
Removing BS blockers like webkit only browser support.

Everything people are not asking for is removing BS blockers and limitation. Biggest thing they are asking for is removing the blocker the App store and yes opening up access to things like being able to replace the default messager app. That is not android but artificial limitation put in by Apple.
 
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And by forcing Apple to remove parts or all of the walled garden - making iOS the same as Android - effectives moves that choice to one!

I am not arguing the merits of keeping iOS closed or opening it up. I am saying that people wanting governments to force Apple to open iOS really seem to want an Android phone and its ecosystem, but want one with an apple logo on the back.
This is about as logical as saying that people who wanted IE detached from the core of windows wanted linux with a microsoft logo
 
particular not allowing alternative browser engines on iPad because it's not 'iOS.' What a ridiculous move.
haha, no, I think this is Apple showing EU the middle finger. For the stupid regulations, for the tax hunt. And I'm not saying it is morally legal, but they play ball by the rules. Its like you are soo good at the game, and no one can beat you, then player decides to change the rules to make you worse.

I've vacillated between supporting EU and Apple in this scenario because I understand both perspectives. Ultimately I think our devices should be as free and open as the end user sees fit.
Yes, I agree with you on this. But I think if you read the EULA, it probably states that the device you have bought does not belong to you :)

Also "security concerns" regarding alternative app stores sound mostly unfounded considering what makes iOS devices secure and private is the sandboxing and permissions system which works on a system level
Nope, do not agree. The iOS already has so many holes, and these new res opens so many new vectors of attack. I don't see how they ever get a better security.
 
Yes, I agree with you on this. But I think if you read the EULA, it probably states that the device you have bought does not belong to you :)
If that’s the case I’m surprised that nobody has brought it to the spotlight. And if the device sold to customer still remains Apple’s property, then what does customer pay for? Renting the device? But $2000 for a two year lease? Seriously? Even instalment doesn’t charge that much.

Besides, if Apple device we buy is still considered Apple’s property, does Apple have the right to own any and all contents produced by the user, including exclusive right to reproduce, distribute and commercialise such contents? Does Apple also own the right to own the content other companies not doing business with Apple generates? How about government officials? So Apple now has ownership of national secret of US and foreign countries? How’s all this make any sense?
Nope, do not agree. The iOS already has so many holes, and these new res opens so many new vectors of attack. I don't see how they ever get a better security.
iOS has so many holes? Who says that? Certainly not Apple. Open new vectors to attack? Oh yeah, malicious app install is now a brand new vector to attack rivals while Apple collecting commissions both ways without consequences.
Better security? Ramp up your OWN defence against cyber criminals first before expecting Apple to do better.
they play ball by the rules
By the rules they see fit, just like a dictatorship would do.
 
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If that’s the case I’m surprised that nobody has brought it to the spotlight. <...> How’s all this make any sense?
okey, maybe I was not completely clear. I meant that hardware is yours, because Apple is not changing batteries for us, it is our problem, but I don't think the software on the phone belong to us. We are only allowed to use it. Again, it was just a point I wanted to bring out, but I will not argue about it, as I have not read the agreement.
iOS has so many holes?
Haven't you heard about Pegasus and other tools like that? Notification exploits? and many more. Not to mention the holes we are not told about yet.
 
Haven't you heard about Pegasus and other tools like that? Notification exploits? and many more. Not to mention the holes we are not told about yet.
Those holes are high profile ones that worth a ton of money, compared to a security issue found inside a no name app. Yes, iOS is full of holes already, but locking it down even further would not close those holes, unless you want to use your $1400 iPhone as a dumb phone that can do phone call only.
 
unless you want to use your $1400 iPhone as a dumb phone that can do phone call only.
I guess I'm already considered as an older generation. I have bought hundreds of apps on my phone and iPad, but as years go by I use less and less of them. Just don't see the value in them. Now distilled to some core apps like banking, parking, and few niche apps and the rest is OG apple apps. Just can't buy in this subscription nonsense and would never pay more than 1k for a phone, unless it replaces my mac. Heck even 700+ bucks is too much for a phone for my needs. Anyway, I digress. But I do agree with some of your points. As long as people have different opinions, we will have different views on topics.. ;)
 
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