Much Smaller Mac Mini Coming?

[Teh Don Ditty]

<snip>

You're banking on the fact that Apple will drop the price of the Mac mini and ditch the optical drive, highly unlikely IMHO.

When people are shopping for computers they want a computer that has everything included. They think why can I buy a Dell or HP with a DVD (or CD) drive in it, but when I buy a Mac it costs an extra $100? (These people are shopping for cheaper computers, and have limited funds). The Mac mini is for all intesive purposes a desktop computer and should remain that way.

 

[Yvan256]

So you assume that they sell the external superdrive for the exact amount it costs to make the drive without the enclosure? I doubt it costs them more than 40 bucks for the internal one

You're banking on the fact that Apple will drop the price of the Mac mini and ditch the optical drive, highly unlikely IMHO.

Yes, of course it doesn't cost 100$ to make the drive if they're selling it 100$. But they'd need to lower the price by 100$ in order to make it the same price if you had to buy it. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

A lot of things have been "highly unlikely" (make a computer without a floppy drive, switch to Unix, switch to Intel, make a laptop with no optical drive). We never know what might happen.

If the Mac mini is targeted at switchers, dropping the optical drive would make sense. They already have the software to borrow the drive from another computer (Windows or Mac).

New computer buyers need to look at the iMac or the MacBook, not the Mac mini. Besides, what's the difference between a 600$ computer with the DVD drive built-in, or a 500$ computer that needs a 100$ external DVD drive? It's still 600$ in the end. And it also allows people to get a 500$ Mac mini and buy a cheaper 30$-special-of-the-week external USB drive at BestBuy or something.


edit: yeah I finally learned how to use multi-quote.

 

[Gurnatronic]

OSX on a thumbdrive?

OK, so what if, the mac mini becomes SIGNIFICANTLY smaller, think of OSX on a thumb-drive.

All the thumb-drive would contain is a smaller, stripped down OSX framework and kernel, apps would be downloaded via iTunes on windows, self installing virtualization would be on the thumb-drive, user data on a virtualized hard-drive on the host computer

£100.

I know it would be perfect for students/potential switchers.

This would hopefully be offered alongside a speedbumped mini.

Although it may bastardize sales too much

Opinions?

 

[Plymouthbreezer]

Just. Drop. The. Price.

 

[Yvan256]

OK, so what if, the mac mini becomes SIGNIFICANTLY smaller, think of OSX on a thumb-drive. [...]
Opinions?

It's called an iPod touch.

Besides, if they go that route, I'd bet it would be a "DVI dongle" with ethernet/802.11n and USB ports. A lot of monitors have more than one port in the back.

I'm quite sure we won't see such a thing in 2008. But I bet there's already something in the prototype stage in Apple's labs.

I'm with Plymouthbreezer though. Whatever they do, it would be nice if they brought back the prices they had when it was introduced.

 

[sleepingworker]

I am actually shocked that people think taking out the optical drive is a good idea. I mean what the hell do you need the mac mini smaller for?

Although I'm not in the market for a Mac Mini, I totally agree with you. Why would a desktop not have an optical drive? If anything, many people want to see Blue Ray incorporated into their PC's. I understand the lack of one in an MBA because it can always use a desktop's OD, but not in a primary PC. Not at this time anyway.

 

[balamw]

Although I'm not in the market for a Mac Mini, I totally agree with you. Why would a desktop not have an optical drive? If anything, many people want to see Blue Ray incorporated into their PC's. I understand the lack of one in an MBA because it can always use a desktop's OD, but not in a primary PC. Not at this time anyway.

Desktops are not the only market for the mini. You're ignoring one of the other markets for the mini, Embedded PCs for cars home theaters, etc... Imagine the new mini as being the same form factor as the MBA SuperDrive, if you need the optical drive, get it and stack it with the mini, or remote it to somewhere more convenient.

What would seal the deal for me is if Apple would simply embrace eSATA once and for all so you could use the new mini with any large external hard drives. I'd buy one instantly to replace my Dell iTunes server.

Unfortunately the MBA points in the other direction. They are more likely to drop FW for the sake of size than to add eSATA.

B

 

[hiptobesquare]

Smaller is an un-needed compromise

What is the point of a "smaller" desktop system?

They are inherently immobile. They don't move much, unlike a laptop, tablet, or iphone.

Smallish is good to keep clutter and mass down, but really. The Mac Mini is down-right tiny as desktops go anyway. Dress up the form factor, if you want, but smaller isn't neccessary.

They need to go toward the internet terminal, second home computer, media-center capable, or other home-use non-mobile computer uses.

Like someone else's signature so aptly says... a Mac Pro as a home computer is like a Freightliner with a pickup bed being your everyday pickup truck.

But, conversely, a bicycle with a pull-wagon isn't exactly an everyday pickup truck, either.

I can understand folks saying that it should go with an external optical drive, but why? why have more parts and cables? An internal drive is fine, and space for it can be afforded.

What I would like to see, and think is appropriately possible:

-Penryn processors, with 4 to 8 GB of RAM Capacity. (future compatible)

-single high-cap 3.5" or 90-degree rotated dual 2.5" E-SATA hard drive configurability. (I wouldn't mind an SSD OS drive with a HDD storage drive, even if it is a future upgrade) Two 2.5 drives side by side are almost exactly the same footprint as a standard 3.5" drive.

-quality GPU, with an HDCP (or whatever it is called) hardware compliance for BluRay HD playback capability as an upgrade option, with a BluRay Drive. Soldered GPU chip works, but ZIF-chip socket for upgradeability would be better.

-Wireless-N, Bluetooth 2.0, Gigabit-Enet, USB2.0, and FW800 or (1600, if ready) all standard. Hopefully even an External SATA bus port, for external drive connection.

-dual monitor ports. dual-monitor configuration is more and more common, single is adequate, but can be a bit of a handicap if people want a dual monitor system, but don't need or can't afford a Mac Pro. If folks do want a single monitor machine, why would they not want a base iMac that is all-in-one? Even with dual ports, a single monitor plugged in would still work as normal, leaving the second unattached. Hard to add a second monitor, though if the second port doesn't exist. DVI can be converted to HDMI, anyway, for media-center, so dual screen output there might be useful, also.

Keep the analog+toslink audio ports. I just wish there were an aftermarket external sound processor and amplifier that would work with a mac. Simplifi's equipment doesn't appear mac compatible. An external sound processor, D/A converter, and Amplifier stage that outputs multi-channel audio to most people's existing home theater loudspeakers, with only Toslink optical in, and USB control interface, would complement the Mac Mini nicely. No controls except Mac OS interface.

That could be configured to be quite a media center, better (more expensive and complete than AppleTV), with the BluRay playback package, and being able to output HD signal to a 1080p monitor, and output digital audio to a processor/amp, and speakers... and the IR-Remote capable Front-Row interface, and an El-Gato HDTV-DVR reception and storage system, and Griffin SharkFin Radio receiver, which Griffin could upgrade to HD-radio reception, maybe even weather-band, in addition to internet-based streaming radio, or a USB-based XM/Sirius receiver and interface plug-in. All sorts of configurability with the hub being a mac computer with a streamlined FrontRow interface on screen, in front of a full-functioning computer, and even server.

I'd also love it to be able to serve as a network node for AirTunes/AppleTV-like functionality from portable macs like laptops or wifi/bluetooth iPodTouch/iPhone and future such devices. That would allow you to play music from another network source through the media center, not only just locally-stored media, or media fetched over the network by the media center. Media could be "pushed" to the media center by other nodes. That would be fantastic, if then my iphone could broadcast audio (or even video if processing is possible) to the media center via it's wifi connection, and do basic settings and small-demand data syncing via wifi or bluetooth to such a media hub.

That could replace, upgrade, and enhance every part of my home theater, except the speakers, and replace every box in the component stack with one computer system, that could also double as a home network file and media server and central data store, with a TimeMachine, or other external HD central backup, and be a central iPod and iPhone sync source, and accessible from other computers via screen-sharing. (iMacs all of the sudden become satellite audio and video displays, remote from the central hub)

That way, Apple could truly capitalize on "Digital lifestyle hub", as that is what it would truly be capable of, with a bit of aftermarket assistance that mostly already exists, or could exist pretty easily.

Mac Mini has a place in the sub-iMac segment, but it also could survive and even thrive as an iMac headless alternative, or media center, or home file and media server, with just a few well done upgrades.

 

[Tomorrow]

Well, sort-of.

When people are shopping for computers they want a computer that has everything included.

I think to a certain extent you're right - many people ARE looking for a computer that has everything included.

I don't think, however, that those people are necessarily the ones that Apple is targeting with the Mini. After all, in its current incarnation it doesn't come with a monitor, keyboard, or mouse.

If someone is willing to accept the Mini without those items, is it really unreasonable to think that there are some shoppers out there who wouldn't mind not paying extra for a built-in optical drive?

Just a thought.

 

[elcid]

omg, just a speed bump. Penryn, SR and X3100. They arent going to do it any different.


If they sacrifice the specs of my new mini for the sake of size, I will but most unhappy.

 

[j26]

I think to a certain extent you're right - many people ARE looking for a computer that has everything included.

I don't think, however, that those people are necessarily the ones that Apple is targeting with the Mini. After all, in its current incarnation it doesn't come with a monitor, keyboard, or mouse.

If someone is willing to accept the Mini without those items, is it really unreasonable to think that there are some shoppers out there who wouldn't mind not paying extra for a built-in optical drive?

Just a thought.

Not really. There might be some attracted to the idea, but the number of people that would be alienated would be larger by several orders of magnitude.

The majority of households have a computer already. Therefore most households already have a monitor, keyboard and mouse. There are very few households with external dvd drives.

People will not consider replacing a machine that does everything with (what they will perceive to be) a half-arsed solution with boxes and cables everywhere.

Macs are supposed to be easy - buy it, take it home, plug it in and get to work. The idea of having to buy an additional box for such basic things as playing games and watching movies is not within the contemplation of most people.

 

[bigwig]

A Mini with the Atom could be an ok machine, if you had a GPU that could take over the HD video duties. High quality HD video decoding (and possibly encoding) is just about the only thing most home users do that would tax a Mini.

 

[!¡ V ¡!]

If it has not already been mentioned:

The AirPort Extreme, TV, Time Capsule and the Mac Mini all share the same form factor (minus height).

Chances are it will stay the same form factor and the Optical Drive will be removed thus reducing space. Apple is heading with the same idea as the MBAir in the sense that you can "borrow" another computers Optical Drive when require. This would cut weight, space, cost (though an Optical Drive doe not cost much these days) and power including cooling.

All this will result in why bother having the TV when you can have a Mac Mini that can "borrow" another Mac or PC Optical Drive.

IMHO, that TV seemed as a dead end product, since the Mac Mini is capable of the same functionality and much more.

 

[omni-impotent]

argh, I got sick of waiting for weeks & snapped. I bought a refurbished iMac 20" 2.4Ghz. They keep appearing & disappearing from the apple store. I really didn't want to miss out on the 20% discount.

If the new iMacs have no new graphics and only have Penryn processors and thinner then I think I made the right choice with the 20% discount. Penryns don't give that much extra performance, they only use less power. Since it's a desktop, power & thickness is not that much of an issue... if they upgraded the graphics however, I will be pissed off!

 

[Darkroom]

argh, I got sick of waiting for weeks & snapped. I bought a refurbished iMac 20" 2.4Ghz. They keep appearing & disappearing from the apple store. I really didn't want to miss out on the 20% discount.

If the new iMacs have no new graphics and only have Penryn processors and thinner then I think I made the right choice with the 20% discount. Penryns don't give that much extra performance, they only use less power. Since it's a desktop, power & thickness is not that much of an issue... if they upgraded the graphics however, I will be pissed off!

you made the right choice if you absolutely needed an iMac when you bought the refurb... if you didn't need a new iMac, then you've made the wrong choice.

 

[Globetrotter]

argh, I got sick of waiting for weeks & snapped. I bought a refurbished iMac 20" 2.4Ghz. They keep appearing & disappearing from the apple store. I really didn't want to miss out on the 20% discount.

If the new iMacs have no new graphics and only have Penryn processors and thinner then I think I made the right choice with the 20% discount. Penryns don't give that much extra performance, they only use less power. Since it's a desktop, power & thickness is not that much of an issue... if they upgraded the graphics however, I will be pissed off!

Which they will, I am afraid. The Radeon 2400 and 2600 'Pro' were released Q2 2007, and I can't see Apple sticking with a graphics card that 'old' (and I use the term old grudgingly) for another 3-6 months.

Part of the problem regarding this update for Apple is that GPU prices have come down a lot in the last couple of months.

For the same price as they used to pay for the 2600 and 2400, they could now pack a lot more power in.

But that means the Mac Pro would start to look like poor value, and the MBP would suddenly look weak in comparison.

Therefore, I think Apple have made the decision to delay upgrading the iMacs to the point at which they can refresh the MBP and MP without looking silly. Cue - WWDC, June.

Your iMac will still give you great performance, since the 2600 Pro (really an underpowered XT) is not a bad card at all. But, then, if you really wanted graphics power, you wouldn't be using an iMac, right?

In Jesus Christ,

GB,

 

[Occuvite]

argh, I got sick of waiting for weeks & snapped. I bought a refurbished iMac 20" 2.4Ghz. They keep appearing & disappearing from the apple store. I really didn't want to miss out on the 20% discount.

If the new iMacs have no new graphics and only have Penryn processors and thinner then I think I made the right choice with the 20% discount. Penryns don't give that much extra performance, they only use less power. Since it's a desktop, power & thickness is not that much of an issue... if they upgraded the graphics however, I will be pissed off!

From the trend of everything, I think they are going to upgrade the Graphics card on the new iMacs when they come out. They'll either put the 8600M GT Nvidia cards in them, or possibly just up the video RAM on the HD2600 Pro. It also may go to the HD2600 XT. IMO.

It's a good thing you can still send back the one you have, as long as you haven't opened it.

 

[Tallest Skil]

If it has not already been mentioned:

The AirPort Extreme, TV, Time Capsule and the Mac Mini all share the same form factor (minus height).

It's already been mentioned that they don't. Time Capsule is larger due to the HDD and internal PSU.

Time Capsule: 7.7"x7.7"x1.4"
AEBS & Mac Mini: 6.5"x6.5"x2"

If it's going to be smaller, I think that Apple would give it the same dimensions as Time Capsule and then make the next iteration of the AirPort Extreme have the same footprint but be ludicrously thin. AirPort Extreme should be the MacBook Air of routers at .45" tall.

7.7"x7.7"x.45"... that's weird.

 

[wallis.09]

Can i point out that there is one thing we are all missing ( i think ), which is that apple's prices are all WAY too high.

This, in itself, is not the problem. You certainly get your moneys worth. I believe the problem to be that ( including some others ) dell's prices are far better - over here in the UK they can be as much as 50% cheaper. Wow...

Now, if Apple get the mac mini the same size - perhaps slightly bigger - but improve the ram, processor and graphics, everyone's happy. As long as prices still drop.

To be honest, I'm looking for a $339/£200-£250 mac mini. Surely then everyone would buy macs, therefore making apple happy, and everyone would have a cheap, powerful mac, making the rest of the population happy.

As for Microsoft, I have nothing against them - it's just the drivers forcing the OS to full pelt and not enough support getting them fixed... not to mention prices...

Do we agree?

 

[sleepingworker]

Desktops are not the only market for the mini. You're ignoring one of the other markets for the mini, Embedded PCs for cars home theaters, etc... Imagine the new mini as being the same form factor as the MBA SuperDrive, if you need the optical drive, get it and stack it with the mini, or remote it to somewhere more convenient.

What would seal the deal for me is if Apple would simply embrace eSATA once and for all so you could use the new mini with any large external hard drives. I'd buy one instantly to replace my Dell iTunes server.

Unfortunately the MBA points in the other direction. They are more likely to drop FW for the sake of size than to add eSATA.

B

I hope the Mini update gives you what you need.

Surely then everyone would buy macs, therefore making apple happy, and everyone would have a cheap, powerful mac, making the rest of the population happy.

Not to disagree with your point of Apple having a less expensive computer (I agree), but Appleinsider just posted an article that stated "that roughly 40 percent of college students say their next computer purchase will be a Mac, well ahead of Apple's current 15 percent market share in the demographic."

http://www.appleinsider.com/article..._40_of_college_students_plan_to_buy_macs.html

So it seems that many college students are ready to buy MACS even at the higher cost.

 

[balamw]

I hope the Mini update gives you what you need.

I don't need much, the current mini would do the job for my iTunes server/PC replacement, but it seems like poor value right now. I'd be better off with a low end MacBook.

B

 

[Globetrotter]

I don't need much, the current mini would do the job for my iTunes server/PC replacement, but it seems like poor value right now. I'd be better off with a low end MacBook.

B

The only thing it is really missing is Wireless N and a HD update.

The processor upgrade will be negligible.

The new graphics chip will be technically better, but with worse drivers , and yup, you couldn't really game on it anyway (unless its WoW 800 * 600).

Ok, so you can put 4GB RAM, compared to the current 3GB RAM, but will it really make a difference? I'm guessing not.

If you can get a refurb mini, I say go for it now.

 

[gnasher729]

When people are shopping for computers they want a computer that has everything included. They think why can I buy a Dell or HP with a DVD (or CD) drive in it, but when I buy a Mac it costs an extra $100? (These people are shopping for cheaper computers, and have limited funds). The Mac mini is for all intesive purposes a desktop computer and should remain that way.

I think there are actually two directions where you could move from the current MacMini, and you would get two completely different results. Number one: Make it a bit bigger, so it can hold a cheaper 3.5" hard drive, a separate graphics card, maybe a faster (desktop) processor. The slowest quad core available would be fine by me Many people would like that.

And a completely different direction: Build a computer that is not a desktop, but a "second" computer in the home, that you can put into the kitchen, into the kids room, into the living room connected to the TV: A cheap processor and graphics card like the Apple TV. 2GB RAM, not upgradable. No CD drive. No hard drive, but 8 GB of cheap (slowish) flash memory. Wireless. Bluetooth to use wireless mouse and keyboard. Full MacOS X, but all the data is stored on the main computer or on your Time Capsule. And very cheap. The 8 GB of flash is enough to hold the core operating system and all the apps and data you have been using recently; everything else is transferred wireless from your main computer or time capsule. To install software via CD, same approach as the MacBook Air.

Apple is reaching the stage where many people have a Mac at home, and Apple could sell this as a second and a third computer into lots of homes.

 

[ditzy]

I think we are all missing one point here.


Anyway, if this Mac is supposed to be for switchers, then you should already have a CD/DVD drive in your Windows PC right? It also allows Apple to make the computer even smaller.

I live in a small flat believe me when I change computer the old one is gone. I can understand the MBA not having a optical drive as I would guess that apple never meant it to be a customers only computer. I believe that the mac mini is designed to be a persons only computer. As such it needs an optical drive.

 

[Occuvite]

I just see one really big flaw with everyone that thinks that a Mac Mini should be priced like a Dell or HP. Yes, Dell/HP's have everything on them. Yes, they are only $500 give or take. But the quality of parts used is horrible. I work at a PC Shop for a living, and fix Dell's and HP's all day. It seems it's almost all I work on. Most of the time, the PSU or MOBO go out and you have to tell them that they are SOL. I used to own a Mac Mini, and I never had any problems with it. It was a G4 and ran everything up to par. Those Dell's and HP's usually have really crappy processors in them also. The Mac Mini has the Core 2 Duo, and from the sounds of it, will soon have the Penryn. This is a great improvement over a Intel Celeron that's in most Low Cost Dell/HP's.