Multi-Core ARM (iPhone) Chips Due in 2010

[Fenix85]

All this thread is (and ever will be) are people who bought the 3Gs saying multi-core isn't going to make it into the 2010 iPhone and people who are waiting for the 2010 iPhone saying its going to blow the 3Gs out of the water. Plus a sprinkling of people saying the 3Gs isn't a huge upgrade and the people who just bought one getting all uppity. How predictable the Apple world is....

I think you hit the nail on the head. I'll even prove you right and say it's very possible this processor wont make it into the iPhone till 2011. Apple isn't really known for incorporating cutting edge technology. They like spreading out upgrades such as GPS, 3G, ARM Cortex8, etc. I doubt next year they'll come out with something revolutionary such as multi-core, OLED, front facing camera, etc. They can easily spread this out over 2 years and still people will buy the phones every year. Why put all your apples in one basket.

I did buy a 3G S but only because my 1st gen is on its last leg. I don't upgrade out of the need for newest and greatest. I buy when my devices become unusable. Whatever comes out next year I'll be excited for, but it doesn't mean I'll act anywhere as immature and irrational as the some of the people around here have been.

 

[MacSlut]

Personally, I don't recall Apple doing a refresh or capacity bump before WWDC. However, there's a first time for everything.

The original iPhone had a 16GB bump on the high end before the 3G came out. This was in February 2008. I remember because I really wanted to upgrade to it, but decided to be patient and wait for the 3G.

I'm upgrading to the 32GB 3G S, and see it as a slightly bigger bump up from the 3G than the 3G was from the original.

And yes, I'll most likely be upgrading yet again a year from now.

 

[HiRez]

they won't feel pressured to put out an A-9 phone in 2010 because it will alienate 3GS buyers and quickly segment iphone users into 3 hardware categories. A much more sensible upgrade scheme has them pushing out an A-9 iphone in 2011, about the time we can expect to see the first A-9 devices from competitors.

I agree that it'll likely be 2011 before we see a multicore iPhone, but how will going multicore segment iPhone users? Multicore capable apps should still run on single core iPhones, they just won't run potentially as fast or as efficiently. Likewise, multitasking is certainly still possible on the current single core iPhones, it's just not ideal. So I don't think developers (including Apple) need to break anything existing to support multicore.

 

[OriginalMasta]

right.....when you wait for this coretex A9 processor to come for the iPhone 3Gs2, the A10 will be out the year after.

If you want to keep up with thelatest and greatest, fork over the money plain and simple. You keep holding off on these high tech devices, you are just going to be missing out.

Who knows, a meteor could end the world a month from now. I'd rather enjoy what I can now. Technology is way too fast to hold on too.

And what the hell do you want your iPhone to do that it doesn't already do very well even with the 2G model????

 

[nuckinfutz]

I agree that it'll likely be 2011 before we see a multicore iPhone, but how will going multicore segment iPhone users? Multicore capable apps should still run on single core iPhones, they just won't run potentially as fast or as efficiently. Likewise, multitasking is certainly still possible on the current single core iPhones, it's just not ideal. So I don't think developers (including Apple) need to break anything existing to support multicore.

You guys act like Apple's in a smartphone vacuum or something. If an ARM Cortex A9 is available for a phone in 2010 then there's going to be a vendor using it. Apple doesn't have the luxury of resting on its laurels here.

Just like Core Data started out in Mac OS X and then migrated to the iphone, I wouldn't be surprised to see Grand Central Dispatch migrate to the iPhone once there's a need to manage more than one core.

also the the premise in your quoted response is absurd. With 2 contracts folks should know what they're getting into. You got a subsidy on your phone if the new hotness comes out the next year you contact your provider to see how much an upgrade. Apple doesn't have to give a **** about alienating you as they cannot help that some people have fragile psyche and get offended by forward progress.

 

[chrmjenkins]

You guys act like Apple's in a smartphone vacuum or something. If an ARM Cortex A9 is available for a phone in 2010 then there's going to be a vendor using it. Apple doesn't have the luxury of resting on its laurels here.

Just like Core Data started out in Mac OS X and then migrated to the iphone, I wouldn't be surprised to see Grand Central Dispatch migrate to the iPhone once there's a need to manage more than one core.

also the the premise in your quoted response is absurd. With 2 contracts folks should know what they're getting into. You got a subsidy on your phone if the new hotness comes out the next year you contact your provider to see how much an upgrade. Apple doesn't have to give a **** about alienating you as they cannot help that some people have fragile psyche and get offended by forward progress.

Of course there's going to be a vendor using it, which we've acknowledged (for instance, TI has already announced OMAP4xxx), but that doesn't mean those SoCs are going to be tested and ready to go in phones by then.

Just because the premise of people being alienated is absurd is predicated on their own ignorance doesn't render it untrue. Moreover, when you tout something as a gaming platform, rapidly upgrading the hardware is not going to please anyone. It would be like microsoft or sony releasing a new console every year where the new games are never guaranteed to work on old systems. They need to space out the upgrades a little more.

Besides, Apple has already demonstrated they are content to wait, as better technology was available when they released the 3G.

 

[Goona]

everybody that bought a first generation iphone and skipped the 3g to get a 3gs is going to cry when the 4th generation iphone comes out. 3g was a big upgrade to the first generation. 3gs isn't as big of an upgrade to the 3g

You must be joking, 3gs is a better upgrade. All they added for the 3g was a gps chip and a 3g chip, big deal.

 

[buccsmf1]

You must be joking, 3gs is a better upgrade. All they added for the 3g was a gps chip and a 3g chip, big deal.

agreed. the 2nd gen upgrade was the joke. 3G was added and it wasn't even usable for many people until the last 6 months. GPS was added but they didn't have a turn-by-turn app.... making it virtually worthless. and that was about it.

3G is strong in most areas now. the processor and camera get a significant boost. turn-by-turn coming, mms coming. IMO, this is a much bigger upgrade than the 2nd gen was.

 

[nuckinfutz]

Of course there's going to be a vendor using it, which we've acknowledged (for instance, TI has already announced OMAP4xxx), but that doesn't mean those SoCs are going to be tested and ready to go in phones by then.

Just because the premise of people being alienated is absurd is predicated on their own ignorance doesn't render it untrue. Moreover, when you tout something as a gaming platform, rapidly upgrading the hardware is not going to please anyone. It would be like microsoft or sony releasing a new console every year where the new games are never guaranteed to work on old systems. They need to space out the upgrades a little more.

Besides, Apple has already demonstrated they are content to wait, as better technology was available when they released the 3G.

You kind of think that this statement from page 1

"You'll definitely see handsets shipping with a dual-core A9 in 2010," James Bruce, wireless segment manager for ARM, said in a phone interview earlier this week, referring to the next-generation Cortex-A9 processor from ARM.

Now 2010 could mean Jan 1st or December 31st we don't know but ARM has had the specification up for the MPcore A9 for a while. It's likely taped out and undergoing testing now.

As for Apple waiting. Don't believe the hype

http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/05/21/apple.arm.cortex.job/

They wouldn't be looking for engineers savvy in Cortex programming. We can all be doubting thomases with just about anything we have to discuss but I tend to follow the technical trend which in smartphones is anything but conservative.

 

[thouts]

I'm still getting the 3GS *First iPhone for me* THEN when my contract is up in 2011, we'll have 4G networks, AT&T's contract will be up with Apple, and I'll be able to get a Verizon iPhone.

Right?

 

[stevejobbers]

The next iPhone isn't going to have multi-core processors, because the 3gS was being tested back in Oct/Nov 2008. And with the multi core coming out in 2010 that won't be enough time to test it. I'm guessing they will start testing the next iPhone later this year.

i'm sure if Apple wanted they could get their hands on a big ol' batch of these to test with. in fact, i'm sure of it.

 

[Phil A.]

agreed. the 2nd gen upgrade was the joke. 3G was added and it wasn't even usable for many people until the last 6 months. GPS was added but they didn't have a turn-by-turn app.... making it virtually worthless. and that was about it.

3G is strong in most areas now. the processor and camera get a significant boost. turn-by-turn coming, mms coming. IMO, this is a much bigger upgrade than the 2nd gen was.

Ah, but you're forgetting that it also added a plastic back, and by virtue of the fact it looked different, it was a much bigger upgrade than one which keeps the same appearance and changes the entire internals

I had pretty much decided to skip this generation because of the upgrade costs mid contract and the fact that I can't really justify / afford over £500 on a cell phone right now but the more I read about the 3GS the more I realise what a big upgrade it really is and I'll probably get one next month...

 

[Jonny75]

ok, no 3GS for me

Every year the next best thing will come out.

If you need a new phone and fancy the iPhone get a 3GS. Otherwise stick with what you've got.

It's the same for desktops and laptops. Or any technology for that matter.

 

[Jonny75]

I think you hit the nail on the head. I'll even prove you right and say it's very possible this processor wont make it into the iPhone till 2011. Apple isn't really known for incorporating cutting edge technology.

Considering some of the "new" iPhone features are those in every phone since 2005, I think you're bang on.

 

[chrmjenkins]

You kind of think that this statement from page 1

"You'll definitely see handsets shipping with a dual-core A9 in 2010," James Bruce, wireless segment manager for ARM, said in a phone interview earlier this week, referring to the next-generation Cortex-A9 processor from ARM.

Now 2010 could mean Jan 1st or December 31st we don't know but ARM has had the specification up for the MPcore A9 for a while. It's likely taped out and undergoing testing now.

As for Apple waiting. Don't believe the hype

http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/05/21/apple.arm.cortex.job/

They wouldn't be looking for engineers savvy in Cortex programming. We can all be doubting thomases with just about anything we have to discuss but I tend to follow the technical trend which in smartphones is anything but conservative.

My skepticism is rooted in the fact that when talking dates, technology in this field is usually late. Nvidia promised tegra handsets late last year. We're still waiting. The OMAP3xxx was announced early 2006 , yet we're just now seeing it be delivered in handsets. Seeing as how Cortex-A9 was announced late 2007, and OMAP4xxx this February, I find a 2010 date for any A9 device to be very optimistic.

They are looking for engineers savvy in Cortex programming because their current 3GS has a cortex processor. You can't necessarily read anything further into that other than that they want to optimize to their new phone.

 

[nemaslov]

You must be joking, 3gs is a better upgrade. All they added for the 3g was a gps chip and a 3g chip, big deal.

And actually I was very happy to not upgrade to the 3G when it was released. My wife bought one and my original iPhone always lasted several more hours each day battery wise. And the 3G in San Francisco was not that much faster. Really.

 

[nuckinfutz]

My skepticism is rooted in the fact that when talking dates, technology in this field is usually late. Nvidia promised tegra handsets late last year. We're still waiting. The OMAP3xxx was announced early 2006 , yet we're just now seeing it be delivered in handsets. Seeing as how Cortex-A9 was announced late 2007, and OMAP4xxx this February, I find a 2010 date for any A9 device to be very optimistic.

They are looking for engineers savvy in Cortex programming because their current 3GS has a cortex processor. You can't necessarily read anything further into that other than that they want to optimize to their new phone.

I agree on parts of this. It'll be interesting to see if the MPcore A9 is able to be fast tracked or not. At any rate I'll remain optimistic but closer to neutral. Tegra's delays should be a hint to other vendors that it's not as easy to come in and eat ARM's lunch as it appears.

Thanks for the well reasoned rebuttal. We'll see soon enough what 2010 offers. I'm due for my first iphone regardless of whether it's single or dual core.

 

[chrmjenkins]

I agree on parts of this. It'll be interesting to see if the MPcore A9 is able to be fast tracked or not. At any rate I'll remain optimistic but closer to neutral. Tegra's delays should be a hint to other vendors that it's not as easy to come in and eat ARM's lunch as it appears.

Thanks for the well reasoned rebuttal. We'll see soon enough what 2010 offers. I'm due for my first iphone regardless of whether it's single or dual core.

As far as I can tell, the delay of Tegra being adopted is not due to the product not being ready, but simply handset manufacturers haven't picked up on it yet. I made that statement not to show that technology is delayed in being ready, but it was to show Nvidia's own predictions about when their SoC would be used were incorrect. Don't get me wrong, I think it would be neat to see A9 phones in 2010, but I don't think it makes sense for Apple in 2010.

 

[Glideslope]

everybody that bought a first generation iphone and skipped the 3g to get a 3gs is going to cry when the 4th generation iphone comes out. 3g was a big upgrade to the first generation. 3gs isn't as big of an upgrade to the 3g

Your persisting in delusion, simply for the satisfaction.

 

[iSee]

everybody that bought a first generation iphone and skipped the 3g to get a 3gs is going to cry when the 4th generation iphone comes out. 3g was a big upgrade to the first generation. 3gs isn't as big of an upgrade to the 3g

That does not compute!

We'll all still be happily enjoying our 3gs's, despite the arrival of the 4th gen iPhone. Remember, we're the ones that didn't feel we had to upgrade when the 3G came out -- we're the ones that are OK not always having the latest and greatest.

 

[flottenheimer]

Oh, this wont keep me away from a 3GS.

You know, in 2011, a chip twice as fast as the A9 will be released. The year after that - 2X again...

 

[mgsolidsnak3]

Cortex A8 was released 2 years ago and it was introduced this year on the iphone/pre. So if A9 is released in 2010 dont expect anything before 2011/2012.

This pattern seems to hold for ARM processors and phone manufacturers for some reason (most probably cost)

 

[wackymacky]

Just hope the battery in my 3G holds out another year.

 

[nuckinfutz]

Cortex A8 was released 2 years ago and it was introduced this year on the iphone/pre. So if A9 is released in 2010 dont expect anything before 2011/2012.

This pattern seems to hold for ARM processors and phone manufacturers for some reason (most probably cost)

I agree but it appears that Cortex A8 and A9 cores were developed concurrently rather than being more of a generational gap

http://news.thomasnet.com/companystory/533694

http://www.arm.com/news/19207.html

Making it a tad more feasible that a mid 2010 launch can happen IMO

 

[Justinf79]

I expect the possibility of this dual-core chip to debut in the rumored Mac tablet device.