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Multitouch on the MacBook Air and Beyond

tcoleman said:
USB touch pads already exist. Google knows.

I wouldn't want one myself, because I find mice more comfortable to use. I understand that's not for everyone, but I think that a lot of people would agree with me.
Click to expand...

"Google Knows" I like that, will have to use it myself :)

My friend has a wireless keyboard with track pad built in similar in layout to a laptop. It's nice to use for quick mousing operations when you are typing. No need to move your hand so much. However for extended mousing (games?) i prefer a real mouse!
 
TBi said:
You are a very negative person! Think positive! There is no evidence to show the mac can do it but why look at it this way!

Wouldn't it be better to say there is no evidence that it can't! Put a bit of hope back into your life!

Remember the glass is always half full :D
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Oh, no, my main underlying point is that if this feature doesn't become available as a software update for previous generation models then we don't have enough evidence to jump to get to the conclusion that Apple are trying to create an artificial barrier to make us upgrade.

I obviously accept that we don't have enough information to say that Apple couldn't or won't enable multitouch touchpads on previous generation technology.

If anything, I'm trying to pre-emptively talk people out of later negativity...
 
TBi said:
First you'd have to hack it to behave like a mouse and send the right signals over the cable for OSX to pick it up as a mouse, or also write a driver for OSX to make it think it's a mouse.

Then you'd have to hack it so the screen would send the right information to the mac.

They probably haven't done it because it's just hard. Though not impossible :)
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It can't be too hard. Someone did a similar thing for the DS. Control your PC with it's touchscreen over wifi.
 
TBi said:
You are a very negative person! Think positive! There is no evidence to show the mac can do it but why look at it this way!

Wouldn't it be better to say there is no evidence that it can't! Put a bit of hope back into your life!

Remember the glass is always half full :D
Click to expand...

it's great when someone get called negative for stating the facts :D if reality doesn't match your expectations, which one is more likely to change, hmmmm... :cool:
 
arn said:
Manic Mouse said:
They could be, as the current trackpad can tell the difference between one, two and three fingers (try it).
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Can it distinguish 3?
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Yes, it can. The linux driver for the touchpad supports three-finger clicks (quite useful for opening new tabs in browsers). There's also an alternate OS X driver for older Apple notebooks with three-finger support.
When the touchpad provides fine-grained information, it's mostly a software issue.
 
Ha... I feel like a doofus.
Had no idea my MacBook was capable of the Screen Zoom and/or the Secondary Click.
And I always wondered how to get right click on the track pad sans Control clicking.

Neat.

:rolleyes:
 
InSaNeCyAnUr said:
Maybe this is why we can't buy the MBA right now, because the full multi-touch and remote disk is in 10.5.2 and they'll have to release it at the same time.
Click to expand...

This is what I'm hoping. The Linux drivers show that the trackpads can, at least, register three fingers. So a lot of this stuff is possible on current hardware.

But we all know Apple. I suspect that remote disc and these gestures will be confined to new Macs, even though current ones could do it with a software update.
 
I will skip the Air now but think the technology will lead to a new and improved Macbook soon. Still would like a smaller footprint like the old 12" Powerbook.
 
Thomas Harte said:
Some numbered points, to make referencing this post more easy:
  1. There is no evidence that the touchpad on a MacBook or MacBook Pro can detect and reliably separate multiple simultaneous presses
  2. There is high quality evidence that some types of touchpad cannot detect and reliably separate presses, that evidence being datasheets from the touchpad manufacturers
  3. Even if the physical technology used by the MacBook and MacBook Pro can detect and reliably track multiple simultaneous presses, there is no evidence that the firmware that runs the touchpad processes this information in a way that allows it to be passed on to apps
  4. Even if the firmware that runs the touchpad does process this information, there is no evidence that there is any physical means to communicate it to the processor
  5. If the firmware doesn't track multiple presses but physically could, there is no evidence that lines are in place to allow Apple (or anyone else) to do a firmware upgrade without physically opening the computer
Click to expand...

linux has three finger tapping for the macbook

"The touchpad uses a specialized module (appletouch) to connect with the standard touchpad driver (synaptics). So it can be configured just as any other synaptic touchpad can"
 
[forgive me if this is a repeat]

Part of the reason a company won't make a feature available on version 10 of a product once it has been released on v11 is it cheapens the perceived value of v11 It isn't done to screw the v10 purchasers but to nudge those v5 owners to bust out the Amex cards. They don't expect v10 owners to upgrade.

Lots of couch sitters (Aeron chair?) wait to buy something revolutionary.
 
Knowing Apple, the current MacBooks won't have this feature, even if they are technically capable of it. At least, it would surprise me if Apple incorporated the feature in 10.5.2. It would be a major Leopard selling point though.

Upgrade to Leopard and make your MacBook multi-touch!
 
Trackpad abrasion

In my experience, Apple trackpads suffer from abrasion when heavily used: The surface becomes glossy which makes it hard to glide with your fingers on it. Eventually it becomes nearly unusable.
As it is not easy to exchange the trackpad surface I always try to use a mouse instead of the trackpad in order to preserve the surface as long as possible.

Apple should improve the surface or offer a cheaper way to exchange it.

Graefe
 
MultiTouch tracking and viewing.

In the tray of several laptop pcs I have used there is a little icon that tracks your finger presses, where they are, and how hard you are pressing. It doesn't seem like a program like this would be too hard to code for a knowledgeable programmer. Or maybe there is one out there already that shows this information. It would be neat to have a little program that showed all the touches that are registered and what the computer sees. And color them different colors if they are recognized as different touches, etc. Anyone know of anything like that? Anyone up to the challenge?

The MBA trackpad is larger so maybe Apple doesn't think there is enough room for true multitouch. Even if Apple doesn't do it, if it is possible, the hacking community will "fix" it.
 
Since I've got a MBP, I find this discussion over whether MBs and MBPs have the ability to perform the gestures of the MBA very interesting. After watching that YouTube video, I'm now left with that lame feeling new technology leaves you, that my MBP is deficient now. :(

But I'm also interested in the new gestures themselves, and was wondering if others had suggestions as to what other kinds of gestures might be possible. (perhaps this has already appeared in another thread, and I missed it; if so, my apologies).

My idea is to have the rotation of a thumb and two fingers function as something like a volume control; now, I recognize this is basically redundant as there are already the volume buttons on the keyboard, but anyway I think the movement seems to correspond intuitively with turning a physical dial. Perhaps it could be used in some other program where a virtual dial would make sense as part of the interface.

Or, perhaps, Apple went through a number of possibilities and chose only the ones they thought would be most useful, so as not to confuse people.
 
Considering how advanced the trackpads are getting, I wish Apple could find some way of making them more durable. One of the reasons I dislike trackpads is that unless you have something like an Invisible Shield on them, it only takes a few weeks of normal usage for them to start wearing out, turning all shiny, etc. And once it's shiny, it's permanent, you can't just clean it away or something.
 
yeah I'm waiting too

kilick said:
When are these impending MacBook pro revisions? I really want to buy one, and if it is going to be June, I will just get one now. If it is feb...
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yeah I've been waiting too - and my old powerbook G4 (with a touchpad which doesn't do multi-anything, but hasn't gone shiny) is getting longer and longer in the tooth. It doesn't even have enough memory to try out Aperture.

I think I started waiting for new MBPs in August. Now I feel there's a chance the next revision will have the new chipsets and perhaps some of the features from the Air, I really can't bring myself to buy one yet until I find out..

I love the Air by the way - it's just not powerful enough for me and I'm too used to my 15" screen. I'd love to see that shape and design with a larger screen and more pro features one day, but I don't expect to see that for a while. The MBP now looks rather boxy
 
tgildred said:
I've been using a laptop as my primary computer for quite a few years now, and I have to say that I think I may actually be more productive/comfortable using a trackpad than a mouse at this point. Perhaps especially with these new gesture inputs. I'm constantly finding the mouse to be clunky, and less accurate than just pointing and moving my finger around. I would be ecstatic if Apple, or anyone, released a really good, large USB trackpad (similar to a Wacom tablet, minus the pen).

I know I'm probably in the minority with the trackpad preference though. To each his own, I guess...
Click to expand...

I prefer trackpads too. I've used a laptop for too long to go back. Desktop keyboards and mice just give me RSI. (Though possibly the new :apple: keyboards wouldn't be so bad since they're so low to the desk, but I haven't tried them yet.)

Graefe said:
In my experience, Apple trackpads suffer from abrasion when heavily used: The surface becomes glossy which makes it hard to glide with your fingers on it. Eventually it becomes nearly unusable.
As it is not easy to exchange the trackpad surface I always try to use a mouse instead of the trackpad in order to preserve the surface as long as possible.

Apple should improve the surface or offer a cheaper way to exchange it.

Graefe
Click to expand...

On my old laptop, the touchpad started wearing out after about three years, but I kept the machine for five. How I got around it was by sticking post-it flags (those transparent ones that are quite thin) over it. That gave the right amount of friction and was quite easy to replace when one wore through. Obviously not the most attractive option, but they were brightly coloured so at least my touchpad looked happy.
 
HirakuMakimura said:
Since I've got a MBP, I find this discussion over whether MBs and MBPs have the ability to perform the gestures of the MBA very interesting. After watching that YouTube video, I'm now left with that lame feeling new technology leaves you, that my MBP is deficient now. :(
Click to expand...

I think its interesting you find your MBP deficient, even though you forget the MBA leaves out some very important technological breakthroughs. For instance, Front Row, although it says it comes with it on the machine, it doesn't include a remote! They can use three fingers, but you can use a REMOTE! :cool:
 
If the 10.5.2 update does not endow current notebooks with more advanced multitouch, then there is likely a hardware reason why they will never "officially" get it. (Of course software can emulate some things, but probably not as good as with the "native" hardware.)

I'm surprised the Air touchpad even has a button (though they do seem to be on the way of phasing it out by shrinking it). Bring on the new MBP with more touchpad and less button!
 
the new MB and MBP can read multitouch
but i think apple will reason that the touch pad is
too small to offer the new touch functions.

"Touch pad on current MB & MBP are too small to justify a
software update to permit the new multitouch gestures."

i bet they will say this...
 
I'm no genius myself but...

I love how a lot of people in this thread who are probably not hardware/software designers, though someone possibly could be, throw out these wide sweeping remarks that they know beyond a shadow of a doubt that their iBook/Powerbook/Macbook/MacbookPro definitely has the ability to accommodate this new gestures ability.

Just because a trackpad has the ability to do one thing doesn't automatically give it the ability to do another. No matter how similar it is.

I have an iPod Video. It can play videos. The new iPod Classics, which also show videos, do that Coverflow deal. I could say that all Apple needs to do is just update my software to make my iPhone Video look like an iPod Classic. But I have no idea if my seemingly similar video screen or the guts inside it can do it or not. And without being an iPod hardware/software designer, how could I make such a grand statement?

That would be very presumptuous of me.
 
It may be presumptuous of me to say that if my touch pad can sense one finger, two fingers, and doesn't respond if I use three fingers, that just maybe I can presume that multi-touch is possible. Yeah, I'm a layman, but why not?

However, it can also be done on the iTouch (heck, they probably had it in mind when they first started designing that) and that is a much different hardware config. So if it can happen on two vastly different devices, why is it so impossible to think its just a software thing?

If it does happen, it will be AFTER the MBA has been on the market at least a little while. It would look pretty stupid to roll out a brand new MacBook line but give one of the key features to all MBs at the same time.

Also, since the iTouch upgrade costs $20 whats to say :apple: doesn't charge money for multi-touch upgrade on existing platforms.

Oh, and I can twirl my two fingers in a circle just fine on my macbook, so I think size of the track pad isn't as much an issue as some might want to believe - its just that the MBA touch-pad was 'optimized' with that in mind.

But isn't my 4.25" diagonal touchpad larger than the 3.5" iTouch anyway?

Its coming.... just give it a few months.
 
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