MWSF: More Mini iPod Confirmation and Detail?

[sushi]

Originally posted by splashman
Because of the usability issue, I vote for keeping the current form factor, unless Apple has come up with a brand-new interface designed specifically for a smaller unit. As long as you can easily fit the thing in a pocket, a big investment to make it smaller wouldn't help the consumer much. I'd rather the battery life be improved.

For the Japanese market, the current form factor (H and W) would be okay as long as it is much thinner. Something like 40-50% thinner would be great!

As I mentioned earlier, initially (the first two weeks) the Apple Store in the Ginza was selling very few iPods.

I haven't been back to check since then. But initially, sales were very slow -- much less than Apple expected.

Sushi

 

[pkradd]

Capacity is relative. Hard core music people want more. Those who want to jog or just need 10 CDs on their machine don't need more. Apple is smart. They probably had focus groups asking what price/capacity ratio that the ordinary person wants. If we look at these things from a strictly geek perspective then there will never be enough capacity. Compromise needs to be taken into consideration. There are demographics that Apple needs and will appeal to.

 

[ThomasJefferson]

I imagine Apple will use the same colors for the mini-ipod that they have been using in their product ads.

I don't like the ads, nor do I like the colors, but they are identifiable with the product right now...

Regardless, the kids will inhale these things.

 

[sushi]

Originally posted by hokka
BUT then again...

I've heard horribe stories about Flash based storage solutions, a distributors (not reseller) friend of mine here in Oz stopped selling the 1GB version as it's basically 2 x 512MB soldered together (on top of each other - since there are no commercially/readily available 1GB or more at this time), and so much "leakage" occurs between the two cards have resulted so much data-loss almost all were returned... So I wouldn't trust anything more than 512MB at the moment (until there are a single 1GB+ version available at a reasonable price which is still a few years down the track, or until digital cameras go beyond 20Million pixels or something)

Uh, don't tell these guys!

http://www.pretec.com/

They have 1GB and up CF cards.

Sushi

 

[artmc]

Colors for for iPods

Originally posted by CrackedButter
Am i alone in thinking that Flower Power and Dalmation coloured iMacs were really cool and nice looking?

Having a Dalmation iPod would be sweet! But I would want a Blue one otherwise.

Not quite what your looking for, but....

http://www.colorwarepc.com/

Kinda interesting service. I'd *NEVER* do this to my iPod.
But there are people out there who must want this. It does make
your iPod a bit more "personal", i guess......


* art *

 

[happyadam]

Originally posted by hokka
It all start sounding TOO MUCH like a Sony's Mini Disk Player or their Memory Stick Network Walkmans (which is old tech) - I'm having doubts NOW as it offers no benifit (or can lure) people that have MD players at the moment (minus the recording) - though the top-of-the-line MD Recorder is the same price as a 40GB iPod.

The benefit is that it would work seamlessly with iTunes, and allow you to listen to your purchased iTMS music on a portable player.

Yeah btw, removable media suck! that's why I bought an iPod!

That's fine - a lot of people will agree with you and therefore buy the HD version.

Personally, I think Apple would be smart to offer the choice between the current iPod range, and a cheaper removable flash iPod range (iPod FX - Flash eXpandable?).

There are other reasons beyond capacity that give iPod the edge - if they can retain these in a cheaper version (ease of use, stylish design, extra features) then I can see this as being a huge hit for Apple.

 

[cr2sh]

Could it be a stunt just like last year.. where everyone who REALLY wanted a new powerbook ran out and bought one before Christmas. They were so happy with their nice, new, 15" Ti.. and then right after Christmas, WHAM! Alumibook.

Everyone who really wanted an iPod for Christmas got one already.. an after Christmas release is just an attempt to pick up the stragglers...

How about... No?

If Apple releases a minipod, cheaper and smaller.. and does so Jan. 5... it will have been one of the worst timed releases.. ever.

 

[humangod]

Originally posted by caveman_uk
Am I the only one who thinks $100 ipods are really unlikely? You only have to look at the price of RAM to know that 2GB costs more than $100. As another reader pointed out those IBM minidrives aren't exactly cheap either...

Maybe Apple has found a way of giving reasonably large storage and low price but given their love of margins I doubt it. Something has to give - either it ain't $100 or it ain't multi-GB

but you forget, >$100 for 2GB is when YOU as an individual buys the RAM from a dealer. don't you think if apple bought ram in quantity, and directly from the source, they could buy it cheap?

 

[Sonofhaig]

Could it be that Apple has given us a hint of the new mini ipod colors? I wonder if the colors will match the ad campaign for itunes?

 

[Macmaniac]

It seems the more speculation we have the more wild the ideas go. One reader mentioned that the original iPod HD cost the same as the original iPod. Now we know from what we have heard that Apple made a big profit margin off the original iPod. It probably cost Apple $220 to make the original iPod because the bought the 5GB HDs in bulk which brings the price down a lot. This principal could be applied to the new iPods with micro drives, if Apple buys in bulk they can still make a profit, don't rule out a $99 iPod it seems very possible. Hey and you can buy a DVD player for $39 so look how far we have come.

 

[gwuMACaddict]

i used to think a minipod was a dumb idea... but i guess i could use it for running... arn seems to have a little insider info on this one... any word on the interface? same scroll wheel type deal?

just as long as it doesn't look like the dell dj...

 

[dongmin]

Calm down people; we still have long ways to go before MWSF. The only thing that's 'confirmed' is that Apple WILL be releasing new iPods. The details seem sketchy.

Yes they'll be smaller, but how much smaller? Smaller form factor could simply mean slightly thinner as some have pointed out. Personally I think the dimensions of the existing iPods can shrink a bit without making the screen and buttons smaller. Mini iPods will probably be trageted to kids so smaller size could actually work better with the smaller hands.

Yes they'll be smaller in capacity, but how much smaller? The smaller form factor seems to rule out using the current 1.8" drives. So Apple will go with either a) 1" HDD drives that are emerging or b) flash media of some sort. As was the case with the 1.8" drives, Apple may have struck a deal with someone like Toshiba for a mass run of 1" drives. If indeed, as Appleinsider has reported, the miniPods sport 2GB and 4GB drives, then most likely they'll use the new 1" drives, NOT flash media.

Yes they'll be cheaper, but how much cheaper? As many have noted, price will largely be determined by what the storage media will be. My guesses depending on the media:

-128MB flash with slot for another stick: $99
-256MB flash: $99 - $129
-512MB flash: ~$150
-1.0GB flash: $200-250
-1GB HDD: $150-200 (The price of the 1" HDD seems to be the major wildcard here.)
-2GB HDD: $150-200 (I'm assuming the HDD prices aren't that different between 2GB and 4GB versions.)
-4GB HDD: $200-250
-5GB HDD: $200-250

 

[kwajo.com]

the low price pretty much possible using ram not flash memory. the iPod keeps power to the memory right now, and if some of the sleep technology from OS X were put in to use extremely low power to maintain memory, then RAM becomes a possibility. the price difference between flash and ram is huge and this could very well be the solution.

or i am insane and less informed than i thought. oh well. still hoping for stripes!

 

[edgar_is_good]

How about... yes?

Originally posted by cr2sh
Could it be a stunt just like last year.. where everyone who REALLY wanted a new powerbook ran out and bought one before Christmas. They were so happy with their nice, new, 15" Ti.. and then right after Christmas, WHAM! Alumibook.

Everyone who really wanted an iPod for Christmas got one already.. an after Christmas release is just an attempt to pick up the stragglers...

How about... No?

If Apple releases a minipod, cheaper and smaller.. and does so Jan. 5... it will have been one of the worst timed releases.. ever.

Let's think about many, many previous apple releases. The MO is this: announce mega-cool product, not immediately available. When it is available, supply incapable of meeting demand because, e.g., the components aren't available in sufficient quantity yet that they've had a large enough production run (think: LCD's for iMac, G5's for G5's, etc., etc.). People get pissed off, retailers get pissed off, people like us read about how everyone's pissed off. If it were before xmas, you can guess these problems would be x10. I think even with a January announce (available in quantity who knows when) we will still see them as failing to meet demand.

 

[Stewdy]

how about this name?

shorten mini ipod down to "mipod" (pronounced "my pod"). yeah, probably not but i kinda like it. 4GB for around $150-$175 with my education discount... if they come out i'll definitely buy regardless of what it's called.

 

[cr2sh]

Re: How about... yes?

Originally posted by edgar_is_good
we will still see them as failing to meet demand.

I think that was the way of the old apple... look at the newest powerbooks. No demand/supply issues there.

 

[edgar_is_good]

Re: Re: How about... yes?

Originally posted by cr2sh
I think that was the way of the old apple... look at the newest powerbooks. No demand/supply issues there.

Of course those things came like 6 mos later than they should have, so I don't know if that's good "new apple".

 

[zapp]

How about volatile memory

RAM is much cheaper than flash, what if apple used ram instead of CF or HD. The battery is built in, so you don't have to worry about losing the storage switching batteries. I am sure with buying in bulk apple could put together 2-4 storage gb easy. Power consumption would be very low even when playing music( no hard drive to spin). It would ruin it for a backup device, but it is workable as a audio player. Also, no moving parts, fast data access, and fast loads. They can have the OS in ROM then all the music in ram. Kinda like the palm pilot. And it would fit into the smaller form factor rumor, and keep the price low.

 

[caveman_uk]

Originally posted by humangod
but you forget, >$100 for 2GB is when YOU as an individual buys the RAM from a dealer. don't you think if apple bought ram in quantity, and directly from the source, they could buy it cheap?

2GB costs about $300 retail. Sooooo Apple can source 2GB of memory, the rest of the internals of the machine, pay a third party to build the thing and make at least some profit on a price point of $100. Yeah right

Apple next trick will be the $50 G5 cube...

They'd have to get memory at around a tenth of the retail price. I very much doubt that. I think the removable memory option is the most likely. Then you could do it for a $100 easy...

 

[wizard]

Originally posted by happyadam
Assuming of course that Apple are supplying the memory. It may not be likely, but what if Apple were to supply just a cheap 128 or 256MB card, but allow you, the customer, to upgrade to any CFII memory you want.

Just what I'm thinking. Compact flash is the way to go with this sort of design, but I would not be surprised to find Apple choosing some odd memory card design that has little market share.

So 100-150$ buys you a (limited) iPod, but you're still likely to splash out some more cash for more memory (as is the case for digital cameras)

Yep the digital camera is the role model for a solid state iPod.

Now that may not be the most cost effective way for the customer, but you at least have a choice between a non-upgradeable HD version, or an upgradeable flash memory version. Some people may even be quite happy with carrying around 3 or 4 512MB cards (each with a different playlist).

I have to disagree a bit about cost effectiveness, many of us already have a whole bunch of Compact flash cards hanging around. Bring a little more competition to the compact flash marke tand we might be able to drive prices down quite a bit. The underlying technology should not be that expensive anyways, the actual flash chips can be had relatively cheaply.

It seems likely that a lot of potential iPod owners already have a digital camera and have already bought numerous memory cards.

Yep!!

Maybe they could even provide their own branded flash cards (of course they maybe more expensive than other 3rd party cards but might look cooler!)

Well I doubt that sometihng looking cooler will be at that much of an advantage. But what i do see is the potential for Apple to provide a little more competition to the Compact Flash Market. Compact Flash already leads the market in capacity and cost, anything that can drive the cost of the product closer to the cost of the underlying technology would be a good thing.

 

[-hh]

Originally posted by humangod
...you think if apple bought ram in quantity, and directly from the source, they could buy it cheap?

Yes, but there is a difference between Apple being able to buy RAM cheap in volume, and then choosing to pass along that savings to their customers.

I've been an Apple customer for a mere 20 years, but I cannot ever recall an Apple product where their RAM prices were what I'd consider a "Good Value"

For whatever their reason, Apple is not (and IMO has never been) market-competitive with their Retail prices for RAM. For example, Apple's current RAM prices for the 1.8 G5 vary from 148% to 162% of current "Reputable Retail" (eg, Crucial Tech.) prices.

For Mac fans, this is an extremely old rant. The only thing that I can figure is that it has been a big, fat profit center that exploits institutional customers who are willing to pay 'anything' to simplify their Purchase Orders down to a single contract. Unfortunately, this only perpetuates the "Apple=Expensive" paradigm and provides the financial incentives for schools to move from Mac --> PC, so Apple is effectively undermining themselves with their own price structure.


-hh

 

[-hh]

HappyAdam wrote:

Maybe they could even provide their own branded flash cards (of course they maybe more expensive than other 3rd party cards but might look cooler!)

Well, if Apple does go with a Flash Card, but uses a Proprietary form factor, I'm not buying one.

Even if their Flash Card is dirt cheap. Sorry.


-hh

 

[latergator116]

Sorry, gold is a really tacky color

 

[Foocha]

Trademark & marketing considerations

From a trademark perspective, Apple would have to think long and hard before creating an extension of the iPod trademark. The more that they play around with the name the more they undermine their claim over it - quite an issue when it's rapidly become a generic product category descriptor. For this reason, mPod, ePod, miniiPod etc are all, in my opinion, unlikely.

Smaller and cheaper is a smart post-Christmas move, since demand will be slackening off in the post-gift-purchasing season. Pre-Christmas, a smaller, cheaper iPod would undermine higher-margin sales. Post-Christmas, a smaller, cheaper iPod could boost slower sales.

Apple also needs to create a price-breakthrough in order to remain competative and maintain their market leadership - I anticipate that the new low-end iPods will be smaller in disk-space, not physical dimensions, and very price competative. They will feature a hard-drive and Firewire/USB2 since anything else would undermine iPod's simplicity.

I think the big annoucement will be the licensing of Apple's DRM Fairplay technology to third parties such as Napster, enabling 3rd party music download sites to provide iPod support. This way, Apple will leverage their market domiance to finally give Microsoft a kick in the teeth - if they licence Fairplay under the right terms, it could have enough industry support to give WMP a run for its money. Since iTMS is effectively a loss-leader, Apple need not be too concerned about allowing third parties to compete directly with iTMS, and since iTMS is currently the best-of-breed, it can doubtless handle the competition.

 

[vitrector]

"the limits of innovation"

Originally posted by pkradd
... Prices may be half of what they were two years ago. The original 5 Gig iPod was $500...

Let's try and keep the facts straight: the original iPod was $399.00.
----
Perhaps Apple is leaning about seeing things thru from a business perspective. There is no doubt that Apple is THE innovator in the industry, yet they have yet to truly profit from their inventions like others have.
See this article for an interesting read on "the limits of innovation." http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/78/jobs.html

So maybe Apple _will_ sell mini iPods at near break-even or below cost to build market share. I think this would be the only way for them to keep a grip on this market. Ultimately, price, esp. when coupled with good quality, rules the market place and cool only gives a short sprint (nothing stays cool forever); I think Dell has proven this nicely.