My 2 cents on Lion

Discussion in 'Mac OS X Lion (10.7)' started by gurbinav, Aug 16, 2011.

  1. gurbinav macrumors newbie

    Aug 16, 2011
    Ok, so after some soul-searching, debating, thinking, and pretty much losing hope in mankind, I decided to write a little post reviewing my experience with Mac OS X 10.7 Lion.

    This OS update is certainly moderately priced at €25 (on the other side of the pond, people probably paid around $30). This was certainly a bold move by Apple. Surely, they must've been trying to keep people from pirating the OS since, well, the whole argument about it being priced beyond its actual value doesn't seem to hold up at such a price. Alas, after some critical analysis, it's become clear to me that I would've been better off spending those €25 on pretty much ANYTHING ELSE.

    So, let's get down to what made Mac OS X great and the beginning of my love affair with the Apple computer. I drank the Kool-Aid when I bought my first Mac, an iBook G4, in 2003. Back then, I had only been familiar with Panther (10.3) and Tiger (10.4) and my impressions of the OS were that:

    - I had never seen a more stable computer. I could go for months without rebooting.

    - I had never seen such a clean interface with so many different ways to make my time at the computer more productive.

    - I had never realized how incredibly efficient it is for the OS not to have an option to maximize the window.

    - As if that weren't enough, the thing came with a built-in media center which I could use to hook up to my TV and watch my iTunes movies right on the screen. Once I got the MacBook with the remote, I was surprised at how GREAT that user experience was.

    Eight years later, someone at Apple seems to have decided to destroy everything that was good about my computer and its OS and turn it into nothing more than a heavier iPad with a bigger screen.

    - The browser crashes. My OCR software won't work. My old apps won't work. Rosetta is gone.

    - The interface is incoherent. I miss the Apple philosophy of "consistency is more important than innovation" which they seem to have forgotten is what has made so many of us stick to Apple products.

    - Full-screen apps? Seriously? After so many years of touting the uniqueness of not being able to maximize and how, after the learning curve, you'd find that it actually increases your productivity they introduce full-screen apps? Well, at least this can be turned off.

    - No more media center. Front Row is gone and my remote is now useless.

    - Now I have a bunch of ways to access my apps, none of which are convenient and none of which gives me the productivity boost that I got from Exposé. I hate Launch Pad and, honestly, double clicking on the Applications folder was just perfect for me.

    - As if that weren't enough, they also decided to take away the restore DVD and put the OS in the cloud, so I can't even have something to throw around every time I'm reminded of how much I HATE this stupid OS.

    So, in the end, I upgraded to Lion only to lose features and make my user experience much less intuitive! I'm sorry to say this but I think Lion will be Apple's Vista. Too iPad-like to give you desktop productivity and versatility and... well, if I wanted a tablet I would've bought one!

    I'm going back to Snow Leopard as soon as I figure out how to get my computer to let me. I never believed Apple could let me down like this but they truly took something that was part of my identity and made it "just another device".
  2. englishman macrumors 6502a


    Nov 6, 2006
    Not just Lion my friend...

    There are many interfaces/apps which suffer because of "fiddling".

    I guess there are developers around who need something to do.
  3. ssn637 macrumors 6502

    Feb 12, 2009
    When perusing the list of 250 additional features provided by Lion there are certainly some exciting improvements. Unfortunately, they come at the cost of others that I'd prefer not to take advantage of if I had the choice. Why can't we have the best of both (Snow Leopard vs. Lion) worlds by selecting alternative options in System Preferences? Spaces and Exposé rather than Mission Control? Colored sidebar icons rather than the iOS default grey? Save as... vs autosave and resume? And a Launchpad that allows us to select which applications are visible?

    I've also gone back to 10.6.8 with the satisfaction that 10K549 is the last version of Snow Leopard we're going to see. Let's just hope that future Lion releases allow users to gain control over this excellent operating system based on their preferences and the simple fact that we don't have touch screens on our laptops.
  4. okapi macrumors newbie

    Jul 25, 2008
    Bromont, Canada
    I wostly agree with you

    I am not against evolution at all.
    I kind of like trying new way of doing thing.
    What I don't like is beeing forced of using features that don't suite my needs.

    I don't really like the idea of having my Mac changed in a giant iPad.
    If i'd wanted an iPad I would have bought one.
  5. podsorcerer09 macrumors regular

    Sep 9, 2008
    My first question is when did you pick up a Mac with Panther or Tiger on it. Was it the very first release 10.3.0? Or was a little after. Stability always increases. Whether or not you stick around long enough to find out is your choice.

    I'll agree with you that the interface is inconsistent, but only in a few applications. Again something that will be addressed after .0

    Rosetta is going because Rosetta needed to be gone. At some point the support for legacy code needs to be dropped and Apple has giving plenty of notice that this was going to happen and that developers need to move their apps into the present instead of living in the past. You also knew that Rosetta would be gone, and if you didn't then you didn't do your research correctly. Plain and simple.

    I don't recall apple ever "touting" that their windows wouldn't go full screen, but I can't be sure. Now that full screen apps are available, you may learn to be productive with them as well. For applications that you don't need to reference anything, they're great. For applications that you do need another one open to do your work, well the green button works the same as it always has, no one is forcing you to use the full screen button.

    Switch away from Front Row and see the light. We have a bunch of great media centers available that can do more than Front Row could.

    Change the gesture for launchpad so you don't use it. Again it's not being rammed down your throat like you claim it is. Liked double clicking on the Applications folder? Do that then. It didn't go away. Launchpad is there for the people that want it. If it isn't for you that's great, its not for me either but I don't complain about a feature that I don't use.

    Make yourself a Lion DVD, there's thousands of tips about it by this point. Apple gave us a utility to make a restore usb drive, they started selling one if you're dumb enough to buy it. Just don't complain about not having a DVD if you don't really have a need for it other than to "throw around"

    If you can't figure out how to get your computer to go back to SL, well, maybe you shouldn't be complaining. It's about as easy as it could be so I'll give you the steps 1) make backup 2) insert old SL dvd 3) wipe drive 4) install SL 5) restore from backup.

    As for Lion being "Apple's Vista" I'm very glad that you're yet another person applying a poor metaphor. If you know what was wrong with Vista when it was release, then you also know that this is nothing like it. This is users being angry because some of their favorite features were changed, and they're to stubborn to adapt to the new way of doing things. Its really not that hard. You'll lose maybe 5 seconds worth of productivity a day using Mission control instead of the old cluttered Expose. Please go back to Snow Leopard and then you can stop complaining to us. Some of us are fine with the way things work in Lion or had no problems adapting to changes.
  6. deadlystriker macrumors regular


    Jan 15, 2011
    Totally agree with OP. I'm not sure if Lion is indeed Apple's vista at the moment, give it a few months and we will see. However, I feel that Lion is over hyped and just don't get all the positive reviews about it. Yes, there are new features, but all this comes at the cost of decreased productivity. I use my machine to do work and with 10.7 Lion, I feel that Apple's direction will soon lead to us having to jailbreak our macs. I do not want that day to come at all.

    Snow leopard 10.6.8 is the best OS, very stable and just works.
  7. TPadden, Aug 16, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2011

    TPadden macrumors 6502a

    Oct 28, 2010
    This also includes some users, with recent equipment (2010 MBA 4GB), not happy with an update that slows the machine down; I never saw beachballs prior to Lion, lockups never before seen, choppy scrolling where it used to be smooth, and a screen that occasionally goes funky.

    Back to SL and happy to wait for fixes like I did with Vista ..... :rolleyes:
  8. podsorcerer09 macrumors regular

    Sep 9, 2008
    I'll ask you the same question that I asked the OP, when did you pick up a computer with Leopard and or Snow Leopard? Was it 10.6.0 because it was pretty slow and buggy as well in comparison. Some of these slow down issues could be fixed (or at least try to fix) with a fresh install. Some people aren't triaging like they should and just complaining.
  9. TPadden macrumors 6502a

    Oct 28, 2010
    I listened to that the first 3 times I formatted and fresh installed; on the bright side it IS much easier to go back to SL than XP and no one is comparing Lion to Millenium (ME) ;).

    Yes, I entered SL late in the development but I don't consider it "just complaining" when the best advice Lion's supporters can give includes agreement that all new OS's are buggy. :eek:

    Some bugs can be triaged, sometimes it's better to take a step back and wait; but if no complaints are voiced nothing will change. :cool:
  10. nebo1ss macrumors 68030

    Jun 2, 2010
    Unfortunately the most likely response from Steve to the complaints will be similar to the "you are holding it the wrong way" statement. on the iphone 4.
  11. RedRaven571 macrumors 65816


    Mar 13, 2009
    I switched to macs and OS X about 2 years ago when I bought an iMac. I have had a lot of "fun" tinkering with windows and consider myself more knowlegable than the 'average' user (I decided I liked OS X by hackintoshing a HP laptop). That being said, my wife and kids are not into that sort of "fun", they want something that just works, hence we switched to macs and OS X.

    Judging from the noise level about Lion (and my own experiences, like Lion reporting that the previously healthy battery in my MBP needed to be replaced, which went away when I reverted to SL), I don't think it qualifies as 'just working' out of the box.

    I understand that dot zero releases may be buggy but lots of mac owners switched to mac because they 'just work' and don't expect to 'triage' anything. Lion just doesn't seem to be providing that kind of experience, at this point.
  12. PowerGamerX macrumors 6502a


    Aug 9, 2009
    Well to be fair 90% of the complaints are less about bugs and more just crying about how some things don't work exactly the same as they did in Snow Leopard.
  13. baryon macrumors 68040


    Oct 3, 2009
    I like most of the things in Lion, but I hate Mission Control so damn much that it pretty much compensates for every good aspect of the OS.

    I personally never used Front Row, though if I had a remote I would probably have used it. I don't like Full Screen apps, I think it's ridiculously clumsy and the the way Mission Control treats full screen apps is extremely disappointing. Launchpad is very annoying and fiddly, but fortunately I can simply not use it. It would be a good idea, but it's quite badly implemented, especially the incredibly crappy 4-finger-spread-but-be-sure-to-spread-your-fingers-so-that-they-are-always-moving-at-the-same-speed gesture.

    Most of the things that are new in Lion, I have just turned off or do not use them. The only thing I can't turn off is Mission Control, and it annoys the hell out of me.
  14. iGrouch macrumors member

    Jul 28, 2007
    Off Ramp M50
    Funnily enough I initially had grave reservations at the beginning at what Apple have done to OS X (and to some degree I still do). While the transformation of Expose/Spaces to Mission Control (with Exposé separated to just review the windows from the current app.) is less user friendly for power/pro users it does simplify matters for novice users and adopters coming from the iPod/IOS sphere. I ma not to sure I am happy about this.

    Leaving this divergence on Apple aside, after two week doing some research on how to workaround the changes in Lion, I have upgraded to it. My big change in adapting to Lion was to drop Expose/Spaces/Mission Control and use something completely different, namely: HyperDock.

    Having used this for the last three weeks (first on a trial in Snow Leopard to see if it would cut the mustard and laterally in Lion) I have concluded, from a personal point of view that Expose/Spaces really never was that great. It was some kind of bells & whistles effect to show of some core graphic/animation functionality of the OS.

    HyperDock has actually made Lion work very well for me. I did a clean install and moved all my files from backup manual and reinstalled all my apps fresh. I have to say it is running extremely well; it runs much quicker then the last two OS's installed on the same MacPro. I have encountered no real bugs. Where there has been some hiccups they have been related to permissions on files that I am using directly or indirectly by the app I am using. Being pretty proficient at spotting these causes I am quick to identify something that is caused by the user and not necessarily Lion and the way it is programmed.

    The only graphical issue I have noticed is Windows not arranged as they should be in Mission Control, when I occasionally use it, but I am not expecting Apple to get it 100% correct in a .0 release. The fact that it is running so well for me and the Lion experience is good, is that perhaps my previous Snow Leopard install (installed over Leopard) which I have been using for the last few years was just a bad install.

    I am even using Launchpad (yes Apple needs to do a bit more work but don't be surprised if they introduce some extras on this in 10.7.1. They usually do respond to some of the main feedback issues in the first update). I am enjoying all the little extras all over the OS. The auto save feature is only present in apps I don't use that often so apps like Photoshop still have the Don't Save (Cmd + D) option. Want to bet that Adobe never buy into the Autosave api. especially after a lot of people shouting how they don'y like it. Apple do this all the time. They make big pronouncements about earth shattering developments and then everyone ignores them and they disappear. Don't get me wrong I am sure that I will find good use for versions when I use Pages at some time in the future.

    There are some small things like Time Machine is a bit choppy in Finder Window scrolling.
  15. aristobrat macrumors G5

    Oct 14, 2005
    Have you compared the noise level of the dot zero release of Lion to the noise level of the dot zero releases of Tiger, Leopard, and Snow Leopard? IMO, the noise level/posts are about the same.

    Based on forum posts initially following all of those launches, all of those dot zero OS X releases created issues on some Macs: upgrades failing, Macs running slower/hotter, notebooks getting less battery life, UI changes slowing people down (esp w/ Leopard), apps/drivers stop working, etc.

    Sounds just like Lion.

    Apple has a track record of taking Tiger, Leopard and Snow Leopard from "noisy" dot zero releases to stable OSs. Why would anyone think that they would do anything different with Lion?
  16. RedRaven571 macrumors 65816


    Mar 13, 2009
    I was around for the release of SL and you're right, there was noise that SL broke my mac, etc. While researching the battery issue I mentioned, I found references to the same situation with the release of SL from other users.

    I upgraded from Leopard to SL with the dot zero release and had no problems that I recall; maybe I am more sensitive this time because I am having issues with Lion and on 2 different MBPs.

    I guess the lesson learned is not to update with a dot zero ever....
  17. Steve's Barber macrumors 6502a

    Jul 5, 2011
    This ^

    MC and full screen apps screw me up. I have no idea how the desktop metaphor translates into what Apple deems should be a separate desktop.

    I just can't wrap my head around Mission Control. There's nothing intuitive about it. And my windows in Expose *still* swap places for reasons I don't understand. (Just like SL).

    Somebody explain it please.
  18. podsorcerer09 macrumors regular

    Sep 9, 2008
    The method behind the madness is less about desktops and more about tasks. The idea is that if you click the full screen button on an application in Lion, you want to only work on that, whether it's for 5 minutes or 5 hours. It gets its own space because when it's full screen, you can't work on anything else. You can't see anything else behind it so there's no point in having anything "behind" it on the "desktop". When you're done working on that task, you get out of full screen and it returns to a real desktop. Other than that I'm not sure what about MC is non-intuitive to you.

    IMHO, windows move around in expose for no apparent reason. There must be an algorithm based on where they are on the screen right now and how often they are being used (maybe). I think that's why I never liked it. If you have a lot of windows open, in the old expose, how do you find it? You hunt through each window trying to find the one that looks right? Now in MC you find the application you know the window is from by its icon which you can recognize, then you can either do another gesture to expand those windows a bit more, or just click on one and go to app expose. brilliant by my standards.

    Why anyone would want an old grid full of apps in no apparent order is beyond me.
  19. Lokheed macrumors regular

    Jun 10, 2009
    Nope. They have other ways they are controlling the installation of Lion on unqualified machines (taking a page from the iPhone). The pricing was for mass adoption. They want everyone moving to Lion. Apple has always historically quickly shed old software, but they are really stressing it with Lion.

    This is because Lion brings with it the framework to handle a lot of their future offerings (iCloud being the biggest media hog) as well as some nifty new features.

    The new MAS delivery system also greatly helps reduce overheard, allowing for such a low price. In fact, you'll see that Apple's pricing model is really consumer driven. Where apps in the App Store used to be $9.99 in 2007, are now just $.99. In fact, most apps are set at insanely low price points compared to what they used to be, where you'd be hardpressed to sell things for anything more than $2.99. This trend has carried over to the MAS, where typically even large programs and games retail for around $10-20.

    Lion is almost more for Apple than it is for consumers... in a way.
  20. saberahul macrumors 68040

    Nov 6, 2008
    Personal pref. I guess. I like lion a lot more than SL but then again, I didn't see the need for the features you mentioned you used. Safari is very stable for me so I have no issues with that.
    What OCR app are you talking about?
  21. handel30 macrumors member

    Jul 25, 2011
    Miami, Florida
    1. What is so efficient about not having an option to maximize windows? I find full screen apps very efficient and well conceived in Lion. They really make a difference on a 13" macbook screen.

    2. My browser hasn't crashed even once since I switched to Lion almost a month ago.

    3. Why is the Lion interface incoherent?

    4. How does having full screen apps get in the way of productivity?

    5. Here I agree with you. There are a ton of redundant ways of launching apps: via launchpad, via the app folder on the doc, via finder, via hot corners, etc. Apple should at least add hot corners options for things you can't do otherwise -- maybe a hot corner to reveal all your tabs, or a hot corner to reveal all your open windows like the old expose. What's with all the redundancy?
  22. handel30 macrumors member

    Jul 25, 2011
    Miami, Florida
    What is HyperDock and where can I get it?
  23. aristobrat macrumors G5

    Oct 14, 2005
    For me, it's intuitive and a time saver.

    Before Mission Control, if I wanted to run an app (like Aperture) full-screen, I'd have to manually drag it over to its own Space, set the Dock to hide, then "full-screen" the app by manually expanding it to take up most of the screen.

    Typically I'd still want to use other apps, so I'd often switch back and forth between Space 1, which was a bit of a PITA to use with the Dock still hidden. I didn't have much luck with the Dock "auto-hide" feature, as I'd always be doing some to trigger it popping back up. But that's just me.

    When I was done with the full screen app, I'd have to set the Dock back to normal, manually resize the app window back to normal, and then drag it back to my Space 1.

    Now with Mission Control, I just hit the funky "full-screen" arrows, and it does all of that manual work ^^ for me automatically. Except it leaves the Dock present in the other Spaces. Oh, and Aperture knows when it's running in Lion full screen mode and displays a different user interface (that really makes use of the extra space you get in running really full screen). I expect other apps will start to do that, too. Hopefully iMovie soon!

    It also scales better for me. I always left an extra Space running in Leopard/Snow Leopard for the occasional app I wanted to run full-screen. To me, that seemed sloppy. And if there was a time when I wanted two full-screen apps, I wouldn't bother, because that'd require setting up a third Space manually. Not that it was "hard", but it was just a PITA for something temporary. With Lion taking care of all of that for me, it's cake now. I just wish Quicken Essentials and iMovie supported Lion full-screen mode.

    Never had a problems with apps jumping from one Space to another on their own. Nothing sure if that's what you meant.
  24. handel30 macrumors member

    Jul 25, 2011
    Miami, Florida
    You don't even have to get out of full screen. You can just swipe left/right to a different space.
  25. Young Spade macrumors 68020

    Mar 31, 2011
    Tallahassee, Florida
    That's exactly what I'm doing right now with switching from this window on Ubuntu in Parallels to Canary in Snow Leopard.

    Just a swipe or keyboard command away.

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