my 2 year old macbook has 16gb of ram and was cheaper than the new 2016s

[MH01]

Totally agree.

My example from personal experience is based on a logic board failure and now on the new rMBP the SSD and RAM would be binned. But as you say if the SSD or RAM fails the whole logic board needs replacing as well.

I see this as incredibly wasteful by apple, with no positives for the end user.

Apple make a big deal about their eco friendly "green" server centres, stores, mothership etc.

Yet they are quite happy to bin RAM and SSDs that are may not be broken due to soldering the components, that shouldn't be soldered in the first place.

From all the computers I have owned in my many years, ram has failed the most, also why Apple has made it one of the last parts to be interchangeable.

These are soldered components that by their nature have limited lifespans......while they maybe long, we know for a fact they will die. I have a 2005 powerbook , works, replaced ram, replaced HDD..... lets see how reliable my 2016 machine is....first fault it gets replaced....

 

[gngan]

Just saying... I keep removing the new MBP from my cart on apple.com because of the RAM, CPU to price being so crap. How can anyone justify paying so much for something with so little ram?

Do you buy the new MBP for the RAM and CPU only? If yes then it doesn’t justify. You can just point out the things that suits your argument (RAM & CPU) and ignore other points (touch bar, faster SSD, USB-C, etc.).

I don’t plan to ditch my early 2011 MBP yet because of the price. Not because of the RAM and CPU.

 

[ixxx69]

The engineering 101 here is space saving actually.

Classic example of trying to make something look like a contradiction when the two facts are not mutually exclusive. Space savings would indeed be included in engineering 101 along with reliability.

Exactly. Computer engineers are not idiots, and there is a very good reason a motherboard has components that are interchangeable. CPU, GPU, RAM etc fail, they are replaced and you are back in business with little impact, many hot swappable. When everything is attached to the same logic board, its a disaster waiting to happen, one component fails and you have just lost everything, with no recovery. Imagine a data centre where you have to throw out a rack every time some thing goes wrong.....suppliers dream, owners nightmare.

Even servers are moving towards appliance-type non-serviceable devices. The storage in servers will be replaceable for the foreseeable future, but the "computer" itself is transitioning to "appliance" servers. And WTF are we now talking about servers... what does that have to do with laptops again?

Dude, seriously... you've got this all backwards and wrong... please, just learn something about the industry and market and where this is all headed. You don't have to like it (*I* don't always like it), but that doesn't change reality, and bottom line, it's just sucks to have the same people day after day endlessly hating on these products and spreading FUD, and just bringing everyone down.

 

[Mr. Bean]

A large number of people said apple would NEVER give a FREE adapter away.
I think its an excellent example of apple reversing course.

There's something wrong with this logic here. Unless Apple official announced/said that they'd never give away free adapter and then did the opposite later on, you cannot really say they're reversing course. Just because a large number of random people said something based on speculation, you shouldn't be attributing it to the company.

Using a more extreme example to illustrate the point, imagine if that same large number of people said that Apple is giving away $1000 for every MBP sold, and Apple is doing the opposite by not giving away the money for every MBP sold, would you say that Apple is reversing course?

 

[iizmoo]

Just saying... I keep removing the new MBP from my cart on apple.com because of the RAM, CPU to price being so crap. How can anyone justify paying so much for something with so little ram?

I have 16GB of RAM on a 2 core 13" machine, that's not little. I GOT the upgrade (along with better SSD, Screen, Trackpad, keyboard, speaker, and iGPU and slightly faster CPU) It's just the 15" peep that didn't, but if you were a 13" person, it was a big upgrade and borderline on a debate of how much RAM per core does one need.

 

[cult hero]

If you don't want to lose your data in the event of drive failure, have a backup plan. That's how you take care of your data.

Furthermore, with full drive encryption being a single checkbox these days, you check it and don't have worry about the device your data is on falling into the wrong hands.

 

[deany]

There's something wrong with this logic here. Unless Apple official announced/said that they'd never give away free adapter and then did the opposite later on, you cannot really say they're reversing course. Just because a large number of random people said something based on speculation, you shouldn't be attributing it to the company.

Using a more extreme example to illustrate the point, imagine if that same large number of people said that Apple is giving away $1000 for every MBP sold, and Apple is doing the opposite by not giving away the money for every MBP sold, would you say that Apple is reversing course?

Why didn't apple include a FREE 30 pin to lightning adapter in September 2012 with their game changing new tech.

Yet they did include a FREE adapter with their game changing new tech for the iPhone 7.

Apple are known to NOT give anything away FREE (except Sim Card Ejector keys), that was the point I was making.

Perhaps this is a better example of apple U turning: from 2012

Phil Schiller on "Wireless charging"

http://www.geekwire.com/2012/apple-wireless-charging/

"After unveiling the new iPhone 5 yesterday, Apple marketing boss Phil Schiller told AllThingsD that the company doesn’t see much use for the type of wireless charging that Nokia showed, because it still requires the use of a wireless charging unit."

Roll the clock 4 years:

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...n-order-to-support-wireless-charging.2017119/

= apple U turn

 

[MH01]

Classic example of trying to make something look like a contradiction when the two facts are not mutually exclusive. Space savings would indeed be included in engineering 101 along with reliability.


Even servers are moving towards appliance-type non-serviceable devices. The storage in servers will be replaceable for the foreseeable future, but the "computer" itself is transitioning to "appliance" servers. And WTF are we now talking about servers... what does that have to do with laptops again?

Dude, seriously... you've got this all backwards and wrong... please, just learn something about the industry and market and where this is all headed. You don't have to like it (*I* don't always like it), but that doesn't change reality, and bottom line, it's just sucks to have the same people day after day endlessly hating on these products and spreading FUD, and just bringing everyone down.

I will ask you a third time , provide evidence soldered components are more reliable .

FYI servers are reliable . Do you see the link here?

I have no idea what your industry is , nor do I care frankly, but in mine we have a major problem with the new MacBooks pros, cause our researchers spend a lot of time in remote locations , so when their machines fail and have regularly in the past, we could remove the SSD and recover the valuable data . And loosing a days research before you get back to base camp is a major issue!!!!

Is there something wrong with you, are you are unable to have a civilised debate without insulting the other poster ?? Take the personal out of it. Happens thread after thread. Chill out, remove the insults .

 

[MH01]

Without spending too much time researching it, my 2012 retina macbook pro top spec cost $3000 - $3500 , I remember a nice price from 2013 onwards. Early adopters are paying a premium.

 

[zhenya]

Roll the clock 4 years:

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...n-order-to-support-wireless-charging.2017119/

= apple U turn

Wireless charging where you have to place the device on a dedicated pad is not an improvement. Every indication has been that Apple will adopt that technology when they can allow wireless charging in the same proximity, which would be something worth doing.

 

[maflynn]

Just saying... I keep removing the new MBP from my cart on apple.com because of the RAM, CPU to price being so crap. How can anyone justify paying so much for something with so little ram?

Yep, my 2012 rMBP is still going strong (though the battery is showing its age).

From what I've read the SSD, is significantly faster on the new MBPs, so tasks will complete faster

 

[Mr. Bean]

Why didn't apple include a FREE 30 pin to lightning adapter in September 2012 with their game changing new tech.

Yet they did include a FREE adapter with their game changing new tech for the iPhone 7.

Apple are known to NOT give anything away FREE (except Sim Card Ejector keys), that was the point I was making.

That's not really what you were saying based on what I've quoted, but let's assume I've misunderstood what you were saying the first time.

So why should Apple include a 30-pin-to-lightning adaptor with the i-devices in 2012 when those new devices already shipped with a lightning charging cable? In other words, the new device works right out of the box with what's already included. If the user wants to use the old 30-pin cables they already have in addition to the lightning cable Apple has already included, then they need to buy an adaptor. In other words, you did not need an adaptor to use the new device right out of the box.

Why did Apple included a free adaptor with the iPhone 7? Because they did not included a pair of wireless earphones in the box. What they've given you is a set of wired earphones, which require the adaptor in order to work with the iPhone 7 right out of the box. If Apple did not include an adaptor with the iPhone 7, there is a possibility of facing a consumer lawsuit.

In both cases, Apple made sure that your devices would work with whatever's included, right out of the box.

Perhaps this is a better example of apple U turning: from 2012

Phil Schiller on "Wireless charging"

http://www.geekwire.com/2012/apple-wireless-charging/

"After unveiling the new iPhone 5 yesterday, Apple marketing boss Phil Schiller told AllThingsD that the company doesn’t see much use for the type of wireless charging that Nokia showed, because it still requires the use of a wireless charging unit."

View attachment 674454

Roll the clock 4 years:

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...n-order-to-support-wireless-charging.2017119/

= apple U turn

I'm sorry, but I don't see that as a U-Turn either. You should note that Phil Schiller is not dismissing wireless charging. He's dismissing Nokia's style of so-called wireless charging, which you even highlighted. Putting your phone on a pad that is wired and connected to the wall is not particularly any more useful than wired charging. If anything, it's more annoying than wired charging because you might have less freedom or room to move about with your phone whilst it is being charged. It's pseudo-wireless, if I can put it like that. When one talks about wireless charging, I'm pretty sure most people visualise having the ability to move around with their phone more freely whilst it is being charged without connecting to any wire/cable.

 

[deany]

That's not really what you were saying based on what I've quoted, but let's assume I've misunderstood what you were saying the first time.

So why should Apple include a 30-pin-to-lightning adaptor with the i-devices in 2012 when those new devices already shipped with a lightning charging cable? In other words, the new device works right out of the box with what's already included. If the user wants to use the old 30-pin cables they already have in addition to the lightning cable Apple has already included, then they need to buy an adaptor. In other words, you did not need an adaptor to use the new device right out of the box.

Why did Apple included a free adaptor with the iPhone 7? Because they did not included a pair of wireless earphones in the box. What they've given you is a set of wired earphones, which require the adaptor in order to work with the iPhone 7 right out of the box. If Apple did not include an adaptor with the iPhone 7, there is a possibility of facing a consumer lawsuit.

In both cases, Apple made sure that your devices would work with whatever's included, right out of the box.


I'm sorry, but I don't see that as a U-Turn either. You should note that Phil Schiller is not dismissing wireless charging. He's dismissing Nokia's style of so-called wireless charging, which you even highlighted. Putting your phone on a pad that is wired and connected to the wall is not particularly any more useful than wired charging. If anything, it's more annoying than wired charging because you might have less freedom or room to move about with your phone whilst it is being charged. It's pseudo-wireless, if I can put it like that. When one talks about wireless charging, I'm pretty sure most people visualise having the ability to move around with their phone more freely whilst it is being charged without connecting to any wire/cable.

Thanks for clarifying.
[doublepost=1479994220][/doublepost]

Wireless charging where you have to place the device on a dedicated pad is not an improvement. Every indication has been that Apple will adopt that technology when they can allow wireless charging in the same proximity, which would be something worth doing.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Steve121178]

We had a Directors meeting at work today and we all agreed Apple will U turn on the soldering of the SSD in the rMBP approx first half of 2017.
When apple do, we will consider buying the rMBP, but definitely not before.
We dont like the P**s taken out of us.

Won't happen. MacBook Pro's come with up to 2TB storage options, so what's the problem?

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

Just wanted to chime in on 'Apple reversing decisions" and giving away free adapters part...

You seem to be fixed on the fact Apple gave away a 3.5mm - Lightning but not a 30pin - Lightning as proof they reverse course. However they are completely different use cases. When Apple dropped 30pin and went Lightning they were replacing a port which served the same purpose. When Apple removed the 3.5mm they were removing a port. Granted the Lightning can also serve as a headphone jack for that purpose. But they removed a port and included an adapter to provide functionality for headphones (They still sell/sold a lot of 3.5mm Beats...), compared to simply replacing a port with updated technology. Completely different use cases!

On top of that, the fact they still use Lightning kind of shows they really don't reverse decisions. All mobile phones went USB a number of years ago and they stuck to Lightning, and now everything is going USB-C and they're still sticking to Lightning. I'd imagine they'd switch at some point to USB-C but not anytime soon.

They're not going to suddenly allow for user replaceable RAM/SSD as there really isn't any point. They sell the with maxed sockets already, so the user being able to replace them really isn't adding anything, and is restricting size/functionality of the machine.

@deany why does your company specifically require MBP's with user replaceable SSD/RAM? Could you not just buy them already maxed, or invest in a better NAS?