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More semantics ... the expression is to 'have your cake and eat it'.

Not as you wrote to 'eat your cake and have it' ...

And regardless, it's fundamentally a stupid expression because why would anyone want to have a cake and purposely 'not' eat it ? Cake has one sole purpose, to be eaten ....

"Eat your cake and have it too" is actually a more logically correct version. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_can't_have_your_cake_and_eat_it :

Paul Brians, Professor of English at Washington State University, points out that perhaps a more logical or easier to understand version of this saying is, "You can’t eat your cake and have it too." Professor Brians writes that a common source of confusion about this idiom stems from the verb to have which in this case indicates that once eaten, keeping possession of the cake is no longer possible, seeing that it is in your stomach (and no longer exists as a cake)
 
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"Eat your cake and have it too" is actually a more logically correct version. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_can't_have_your_cake_and_eat_it :

Paul Brians, Professor of English at Washington State University, points out that perhaps a more logical or easier to understand version of this saying is, "You can’t eat your cake and have it too." Professor Brians writes that a common source of confusion about this idiom stems from the verb to have which in this case indicates that once eaten, keeping possession of the cake is no longer possible, seeing that it is in your stomach (and no longer exists as a cake)


It might be more logically correct but that isn't the expression.

The expression is "someone/they want to have their cake and eat it too ...."
 
And regardless, it's fundamentally a stupid expression because why would anyone want to have a cake and purposely 'not' eat it ? Cake has one sole purpose, to be eaten ....

Tell that to my Peruvian Fighting Cake. All it wants to do is choke me.
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"Eat your cake and have it too" is actually a more logically correct version. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_can't_have_your_cake_and_eat_it :

Paul Brians, Professor of English at Washington State University, points out that perhaps a more logical or easier to understand version of this saying is, "You can’t eat your cake and have it too." Professor Brians writes that a common source of confusion about this idiom stems from the verb to have which in this case indicates that once eaten, keeping possession of the cake is no longer possible, seeing that it is in your stomach (and no longer exists as a cake)

Wow. Did that just happen?
 
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I believe they claim it to be water "resistant" not waterproof. There is a difference.
That's true. But they claim it has an ingress protection for liquids rating of 7, which should allow submersion up to 1m for 30 minutes. If it is really only capable of handling rain as the ad shows, then it really should only have a rating of 3 or 4.

IPX3=Water falling as a spray at any angle up to 60° from the vertical shall have no harmful effect.
IPX4= Water splashing against the enclosure from any direction shall have no harmful effect.
 
Well in this situation the manufacturer said the car was safe in a crash but instead it blows up.





IP67... Apple said the phone is rated IP67. Per Apple, "tested under controlled laboratory conditions with a rating of IP67 under IEC standard 60529." If it can't be submerged for 30 minutes at 1M depth then it isn't IP67. Plain and simple.

Like I said earlier, Apple can easily resolve this by either removing the IP67 rating or honoring water damaged if its within the IP67 parameters. Otherwise it is false advertising. They're promoting IP67 and selling phones based this rating. They're touting this feature as an advantage over their competitors' phones so of course consumers are going to expect to be able to submerge their phones.

It's not false advertising. Barring any defects, it can probably survive 1M under water for 30min granted that the phone isn't moving or being in use.
 
No, IPX4 is rated for splashes. IPX7 is immersion up to 1m depth. They really should have marketed it as IPX4.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Code
Sorry...I mean real world, not in a lab.

Here's a more realistic guide from Garmin:
http://www.garmin.com/en-CA/legal/waterrating

People need to keep in mind that IPX7, that's static water - non-moving. If you have the phone in 2 feet of water and you're moving, chances are that exceeds the IPX7 water pressure for non-moving at 1m.
 
How about enjoying an activity without having to have your device? And for all you shower users, how does youporn work out for you? (C:=
 
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Also pay attention to how the iPhone was marketed, compared to the S2 Watch.

The iPhone was marketed with a guy riding his bike in the rain. The watch was marketed with a person swimming laps, and a shot where the watch was held under water.

The Watch has a newly developed mechanism to eject water from the speaker ports. The iPhone does not.

These are all deliberate decisions by the marketing team. Apple has in no way deceived or misled anyone about the iphone's water resistance capabilities. If they wanted to market the phone as an underwater camera, they would have done so.

Like I posted earlier, another company actually did show marketing photos for their IP68 device where people used the phone underwater to take photos. It was later retracted.

I have yet to see any credible article which says IP67 means: "Being able to use your phone under water for up to 1 meter up to 30 minutes." There is ZERO (I mean ABSOLUTELY ZERO) literature to support this interpretation of what the IP67 rating means.

This is only ONE THING: Again, people who have misinterpreted the results of the IP 67 rating, and what it supports. According to CNET, even IP68 does not mean you can use your phone as an underwater camera.

https://www.cnet.com/how-to/water-dust-resistance-ratings-in-gadgets-explained/

  • Unless otherwise stated by the manufacturer, you should avoid pressing buttons on the device while it is underwater. This could allow water to enter into the casing and damage the device.
 
People shouldn't be treating their phones any differently than they did the prior revision (just have greater confidence that if something DOES happen, you have a greater likelihood of the phone surviving).

Why not? It has a feature previous phones did not have, namely IP67 water resistance. Why would you not use it?
 
Also pay attention to how the iPhone was marketed, compared to the S2 Watch.

The iPhone was marketed with a guy riding his bike in the rain. The watch was marketed with a person swimming laps, and a shot where the watch was held under water.

The Watch has a newly developed mechanism to eject water from the speaker ports. The iPhone does not.

These are all deliberate decisions by the marketing team. Apple has in no way deceived or misled anyone about the iphone's water resistance capabilities. If they wanted to market the phone as an underwater camera, they would have done so.

Additionally, they did absolutely no marketing with the IPX7-rated original Apple Watch and the current Series 1 when it comes to water resistance. It's funny how they're willing to swap out water damaged IPX7-rated Apple Watch under the standard warranty despite having never touted its water resistance capability, yet they marketed the IP67-rated iPhone with a guy riding his bike in the rain and a guy falling into a pool and are refusing to cover water-damaged iPhone 7 under any condition.
 
Why not? It has a feature previous phones did not have, namely IP67 water resistance. Why would you not use it?
Because the spec isn't actually that rigorous? Did you at least read 3 posts up before posting? (the Garmin explanations of what the specs mean).

I think one way in which Apple err'd was with AW0. People (inherently) take how robust that was with its IPX7 rating and think that the iPhone will be as durable as the AW0. Obviously, the original Apple Watch was engineered to have a much higher durability for water resistance than the iPhone 7's.

That's no indication that the iPhone 7 doesn't meet the IPX7 standard.

People ignore that these specs are proven in labs. The phone is in a tube of static water, which is increased in depth to prove the standard metric.

So many people exceeded the rating of the Apple Watch, that so many others feel they can just run out and perform similar measures with their 2016 iPhones.

They were given hints that this isn't the case. That Apple stated explicitly that water damage wouldn't be covered under warranty was certainly one to not be ignored. They didn't do this with the Apple Watch.

There were threads on this site where we discussed this at length previously. Many of us postulated how long it would be before people (not understanding the rating) would try their hand at underwater photography.

I think this is also part of the culture that Apple has created. That they would extend goodwill to lengths that no-one else would and cover off the idiocy of their customers.

Well, we've seen in recent days that trend has come to an end. (myself, I've been told at our local Apple store that "We treat all customers the same, regardless of whether they're long-time or brand new customers).

Take that with whatever grain of salt you will. Anyone pushing the envelope of coverage, regardless of the fact that they've been warned, does so at their own peril.

I am hoping that the OP does get coverage for this failure of the phone. We'd have to see a video of what actually happened to have any idea of if he exceeded the coverage or not. And, perhaps, Apple will be able to tell from metrics in the device (again, this was discussed previously). Hopefully a fair resolution comes to play in the end.
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...yet they marketed the IP67-rated iPhone with a guy riding his bike in the rain and a guy falling into a pool and are refusing to cover water-damaged iPhone 7 under any condition.
Did they market the guy falling in the pool? I haven't seen that commercial. Only thing I saw was the slide at the Apple event. Considering it's only die-hards that tune in to those, I'd hardly call a slide in their deck mass marketing.

I really do hope they did what was suggested in other threads and gave additional water resistance to their internal barometer and key components, so they can get the water pressure rating at time of death of the device.
People really should pay for their own fallacy.
 
Did they market the guy falling in the pool? I haven't seen that commercial. Only thing I saw was the slide at the Apple event. Considering it's only die-hards that tune in to those, I'd hardly call a slide in their deck mass marketing.

The keynote is still a form of marketing, even if only die-hards watch it. Either way, it's false advertisement if they refuse to warranty water damaged iPhone 7 as a result of falling into the pool.
 
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Additionally, they did absolutely no marketing with the IPX7-rated original Apple Watch and the current Series 1 when it comes to water resistance. It's funny how they're willing to swap out water damaged IPX7-rated Apple Watch under the standard warranty despite having never touted its water resistance capability, yet they marketed the IP67-rated iPhone with a guy riding his bike in the rain and a guy falling into a pool and are refusing to cover water-damaged iPhone 7 under any condition.

Again. That's apple being generous. They are not under any obligation to do so.

Apple gave me a free pair of headphones because mine were coming undone. I was out of warranty. That doesn't mean Apple owed it to me.

You are mistaking what Apple does or does not do, as opposed to what they are obligated to do.
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The keynote is still a form of marketing, even if only die-hards watch it. Either way, it's false advertisement if they refuse to warranty water damaged iPhone 7 as a result of falling into the pool.

No it's not. You have no idea what false advertising is. They have in no way said you can take photos underwater with this phone. Or swim with it. Or shower with it. For the millionth time, the IP67 rating does not mean those things.


You. And a million others have misinterpreted it, and have not bothered to read a single article I have posted here for you saying precisely what I am telling you.
 
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Got our 7's release day. My wife spilled alcohol on her phone a couple of days after and rinsed it off in the sink. Yesterday, she spilled a full glass of water on it and water got in the case. no issues so far.. not quite submerged, but you get the idea....
Your wife seems a bit accident prone. I wonder how many previous versions of iPhones she destroyed :)
 
Why not? It has a feature previous phones did not have, namely IP67 water resistance. Why would you not use it?

Why not, indeed? Still, I think anyone who exposes their iPhone 7 to everyday use is using the feature - a feature that improves the chances of its survival in the case of accidental contact with liquids.

The question is whether you see this as a safety/protective feature like anodizing aluminum (which hardens the metal and prevents corrosion), or as an expansion of the ways in which you can use your phone (listening to music in the shower, shooting photos in the rain, etc.).

I know enough about IP67 to know that, unless I'm desperate to get a great shot, I'm not going to treat my phone like a waterproof camera. There's a substantial difference between IP67 and true waterproofing.

I'm not particularly shy about using my cameras in damp conditions. I wrecked my Nikon F about 25 years ago on a whitewater river trip, when I failed to properly close the lid of my "waterproof" camera case. I'd taken that camera on many river trips prior to that, taken (and sold) a fair number of river images... In more recent years, with other "good" cameras, I've planted my tripod in pools at the base of waterfalls and wiped off more than a little accumulated mist from those cascades. I've shot rainbows while the rain was still falling, brushed storm-driven snow off my lenses. I've taken my iPhone 6 on river trips, in a variety of waterproof pouches, taken some nice shots with it, too.

But would I tell someone else, "Sure, you can do that with your camera?" No way. At least, not without also telling them that they risk destroying their equipment.

If you're going to take this risk, approach it in an adult manner. In whitewater river running, there's a saying, "You, and you alone, are responsible for your safety on the river." You, and you alone, are responsible for what happens to your iPhone if it gets wet. Don't hope that someone at Apple will come to your rescue.

I quoted Apple's iPhone 7 web page earlier (this time with emphasis added),
iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus are splash, water, and dust resistant and were tested under controlled laboratory conditions with a rating of IP67 under IEC standard 60529. Splash, water, and dust resistance are not permanent conditions and resistance might decrease as a result of normal wear. Do not attempt to charge a wet iPhone; refer to the user guide for cleaning and drying instructions. Liquid damage not covered under warranty.
 
No it's not. You have no idea what false advertising is. They have in no way said you can take photos underwater with this phone. Or swim with it. Or shower with it. For the millionth time, the IP67 rating does not mean those things.


You. And a million others have misinterpreted it, and have not bothered to read a single article I have posted here for you saying precisely what I am telling you.

Did you really read what I wrote? I never said anything about taking photos underwater or swim/shower with it. I'm saying it's false advertisement if they show a guy riding their bike through the rain or falling into the pool with the iPhone and they refuse to warranty water-damaged iPhone as a result of biking through the rain or falling into the pool.
 
Did you really read what I wrote? I never said anything about taking photos underwater or swim/shower with it. I'm saying it's false advertisement if they show a guy riding their bike through the rain or falling into the pool with the iPhone and they refuse to warranty water-damaged iPhone as a result of biking through the rain or falling into the pool.

Hahaha.

Then why are you quoting me in the first place. Maybe you didn't read that I've said that myself 100 times already in this thread. What I have been saying, is congruous with what you just said. And none of your other posts in this thread supporting OP don't make much sense. OP didn't fall into a pool or ride through a rain storm. He went underwater taking photos, which IP 67 does not cover.

If your last statement is true, then we are in agreement and there is nothing more to say.

OP, by his own admission, does not deserve or is not obligated to a warranty replacement. However, Apple will likely give him one anyways. Just because they are Apple, or if he lies. And that's my gripe with people like OP, people giving IP67 their own PERSONAL construction, and people who take their S0 watches and phones into the shower: when things break, they lie, and then they potentially ruin it for the rest of us who actually are reasonable with our electronic devices.
 
Did you really read what I wrote? I never said anything about taking photos underwater or swim/shower with it. I'm saying it's false advertisement if they show a guy riding their bike through the rain or falling into the pool with the iPhone and they refuse to warranty water-damaged iPhone as a result of biking through the rain or falling into the pool.

You're making your argument in the wrong court, in front of the wrong jury.

Find yourself an attorney who agrees with you and is willing to take on your case on a contingent basis. (I think contingent basis is a pretty good test - the lawyer agrees to pursue your case at no charge, in exchange for a large percentage of the award/settlement should you win. If they're not willing to take a case on a contingent basis, then they think the odds of winning are not very good.)

I'm not a lawyer, so my opinion doesn't count, but as you know from my previous posts, I don't think your chances would be very good. Apple has very good lawyers, and like any large company, every ad, every statement, is reviewed by Legal before it's released to the public.

There's a long history of court precedents in matters of this sort. You may as well take the auto industry to court because they show their cars doing all sorts of stunts and traveling faster than the speed limit.
 
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You're making your argument in the wrong court, in front of the wrong jury.

Find yourself an attorney who agrees with you and is willing to take on your case on a contingent basis. (I think contingent basis is a pretty good test - the lawyer agrees to pursue your case at no charge, in exchange for a large percentage of the award/settlement should you win. If they're not willing to take a case on a contingent basis, then they think the odds of winning are not very good.)

If they continue to deny warranty claims of water-damaged iPhones as a result of biking through the rain and the like, there will most certainly be a class action lawsuit.
 
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