My new MacBook Air m2 - 8gb is great

[eltoslightfoot]

Static apps aren't "performance based," so it isn't really going to slow down so much as refresh maybe, but even that depends on what you're swapping to and swapping from, and by how much. Since macOS can basically pause those apps by using a combination of swap and compression, you're clearly fine using 8 GB RAM. Your workflow and working habits define how much RAM you need; not strangers on forums.

That being said, macOS needs 2 GB of RAM leaving only 6 GB for apps. Surely it would be better for Apple to have moved to 12 GB RAM for base models (which leaves 10 GB for apps). I though they were going to do that with the M3 MacBook Pro but they stuck to 8 GB.

Did they solve all the weird issues that were coming up with the M3 and the weird RAM pools? Honestly asking, I haven't heard it complained about it a while. If so, then that would be fine. Then again, at the cost, if they were going to raise it, they may as well just go to 16...

 

[Agincourt]

Yes, going up to 16 GB RAM would make the most sense... but that would mean Apple couldn't gouge customers for that all important 8 - 16 upgrade. The most popular upgrades amongst customers is 512 GB storage and 16 GB RAM... it's almost as though they sets the specs artificially low and reminding us that we can't upgrade later. If you expect to keep this computer for five years will 8 GB be enough then? In 10 years do you think 8 GB will still be viable even for the most casual users?

 

[6749974]

Did they solve all the weird issues that were coming up with the M3 and the weird RAM pools? Honestly asking, I haven't heard it complained about it a while. If so, then that would be fine. Then again, at the cost, if they were going to raise it, they may as well just go to 16...

Apple is using new 6 GB and 12 GB memory chips that would allow 12 GB, 24 GB, 48 GB and so on on M-chips. Instead they used it only on the MacBook Pro models that has, I think, 3 channels of 6 GB, making the odd 18 GB RAM defaults. Please Correct me if I’m wrong. But that’s why the M3 models were rumored to start at 12 GB and not 16 GB.

I haven’t heard about any complaints.

 

[Agincourt]

^^^

This

12 GB as base specs would make the most sense because after deducting the OS and graphics memory usage, you may end up with as little as 4 GB of your initial 8 GB. Just adding a critical 4 GB would go long way towards future proofing the computer and having the 12 to 24 GB upgrade for $200 is easier to swallow for customers than $400. More sales means more profit for Apple, everyone wins.

 

[Corefile]

Exactly how much CPU is consumed reading, or composing email? How much CPU is consumed writing a document when the overwhelming majority of time the system is waiting for key presses? Is it really important to calculate a spreadsheet 1.8 milliseconds faster?

You can do all those things on a mid-80s Mac. You don't need an Apple Silicon machine, do you?

 

[Corefile]

How about we change direction if people are growing bored?

I brought up the cost to the customer vs. what it costs Apple to manufacture, and that's mostly not been addressed. I absolutely agree that it makes no sense to pay $200 USD extra for 8 GB RAM if you're mostly web surfing or other tasks comparable to what can be done on a tablet/phone. With Swapping you have the option of running 'heavier' programs if only done once in a while. Even a game like Balder's Gate III can run on an M series machine with only 8 GB RAM, whereas the optimal specs for Windows is 16 GB RAM and 8 GB graphics memory... albeit at significant reduction in performance.

Now how about we discuss the cost to upgrade and whether you think it's reasonable or not. Thus far no one has provided a valid argument over why we shouldn't complain over Apple charging >8x the market value for RAM and Storage. By designing these machines to be non upgradable Apple can pretty much set whatever price they want. And just because it doesn't affect you, it makes absolutely no sense why people would defend a trillion-dollar company and fight tooth and nail to pay them more for less.

No, I don't want to hear the 'switch to Windows' argument again. I will eventually have to do so, but I would much prefer that Apple hear and adhere to customer complaints.

A lot of folk who buy the base Mac don't really grasp that prices from 8GB to 16GB is negligible. They have bought into the marketing speak from the Apple PR dept and only know how to regurgitate such utterances. That is, they don't get that if the cost of two widgets is the same then you should always give the consumer the higher specification widget. It doesn't help when Apple PR dept has daft things like an 8GB Mac is the same as the 16GB PC. That is just the silliest thing imaginable yet Mac owners swallow it constantly. Apple shouldn't be shipping 8GB garbage in 2024.

 

[Agincourt]

A lot of folk who buy the base Mac don't really grasp that prices from 8GB to 16GB is negligible. They have bought into the marketing speak from the Apple PR dept and only know how to regurgitate such utterances. That is, they don't get that if the cost of two widgets is the same then you should always give the consumer the higher specification widget. It doesn't help when Apple PR dept has daft things like an 8GB Mac is the same as the 16GB PC. That is just the silliest thing imaginable yet Mac owners swallow it constantly. Apple shouldn't be shipping 8GB garbage in 2024.

I know, but the 'Pro 8 GB' crowd just seem perfectly comfortable or downright ready to fight in order to pay more for less.

That's exactly the reason why Apple designed out upgradability, so that it's impossible to repair or upgrade your computer without Apple's say so... and how ever much they decide to extort from you. Their upgrade prices are set artificially high... as high as they think people are willing to spend on upgrades. As such they sell fewer computers, but get the highest profit margin possible.

Our proposition is that Apple should simply increase the specs to 512 and 16 GB without raising the prices. With more favorable specs they'd win over more customers and still be profitable. Not by gouging but by having more sales to make up a higher share of the market.

 

[Corefile]

Our proposition is that Apple should simply increase the specs to 512 and 16 GB without raising the prices. With more favorable specs they'd win over more customers and still be profitable. Not by gouging but by having more sales to make up a higher share of the market.

I think this is all down to Tim Cook being a logistics guy. He only sees the $$$ in profit whereas you should be building goodwill with your customers by providing maximum flexibility in the product. Shafting customers at every opportunity is disgusting.

 

[ignatius345]

Apple shouldn't be shipping 8GB garbage in 2024.

My wife has been using her "8GB garbage" M1 Air to run her whole business for a few years now. We put the $200 we saved on an unnessary RAM upgrade to use on something else we wanted. But then again, I don't think she's ever opened Activity Monitor so she is totally unaware of the "problem" of her Mac using (gasp!) swap space. All she knows is it works smoothly for everything she does.

 

[Zest28]

No one stop you from switching over to Windows if you’re not happy with their model selections and their prices.

In 2024, there is no way in hell I would buy a M2 MBA.

In the same price range, you get similar Windows PC’s that have a superior OLED 90hz displays, 32GB RAM and 1 TB SSD.

Only die-hard Apple fans would buy a M2 MBA.

And yes, I actually own a M2 MBA myself, but I bought it in a different time when PC laptops were not competitive back then.

 

[Corefile]

My wife has been using her "8GB garbage" M1 Air to run her whole business for a few years now. We put the $200 we saved on an unnessary RAM upgrade to use on something else we wanted. But then again, I don't think she's ever opened Activity Monitor so she is totally unaware of the "problem" of her Mac using (gasp!) swap space. All she knows is it works smoothly for everything she does.

I think you disingenuously avoided the whole point being discussed.

 

[geta]

In 2024, there is no way in hell I would buy a M2 MBA.

In the same price range, you get similar Windows PC’s that have a superior OLED 90hz displays, 32GB RAM and 1 TB SSD.

Only die-hard Apple fans would buy a M2 MBA.

And yes, I actually own a M2 MBA myself, but I bought it in a different time when PC laptops were not competitive back then.

No one stopping you from replacing your crapy M2 MBA with state of the art Windows PC of your dreams.

 

[Agincourt]

My wife has been using her "8GB garbage" M1 Air to run her whole business for a few years now. We put the $200 we saved on an unnessary RAM upgrade to use on something else we wanted. But then again, I don't think she's ever opened Activity Monitor so she is totally unaware of the "problem" of her Mac using (gasp!) swap space. All she knows is it works smoothly for everything she does.

Sounds like you wasted a pile of money on a laptop way beyond your needs. If this is going to become an argument about how satisfied you are with 8 GB then how much more could you have saved going for a comparative Windows laptop for only $400 USD?

You clearly haven't been reading our complaints, because it's not that people can't get along with only 8 GB, it's that Apple is charging outrageous prices on cheap components. All Apple machines are top-notch in most everything, but when it comes to RAM and Storage... they decide to go it cheap. The question here isn't whether 8 GB extra is worth $200 USD to the customer, as it's obviously not to many people. It's whether a more reasonable $24 USD to increase the specs on a computer costing over $1k USD is worth it. This is a high-end estimate of what Apple spends towards a 16 GB upgrade.

THIS is our argument, that Apple should not be keeping their specs artificially low for the purpose of price gouging.

 

[Agincourt]

No one stopping you from replacing your crapy M2 MBA with state of the art Windows PC of your dreams.

I grew up around Apples all my life and detest the idea of switching over to Windows, but recently Apple has been pushing me in that direction. Back in the days when their computers used upgradable modules like storage and RAM, it was easy enough getting what you needed because you always had the option later if you so chose. Now that Apple has made virtually everything function on their terms and at their prices, this whole 10x the cost for basic items which can't be changed later...

When Apple does finally upgrade the specs to something reasonable they're just going to repeat this process. Now that everything's built in to their entire computer line, it's clear this isn't the end... it's the new norm. I personally don't want to switch to Windows, but staying with Apple has become increasingly stressful. Even something so basic as leaving us the OPTION to upgrade later through them would have more appeal than guessing as to how long I intend to keep a computer and buying a bit more than needed for the peace of mind.

 

[raythompsontn]

Apple should not be keeping their specs artificially low for the purpose of price gouging

Look up the definition of price gouging. What Apple is doing is not even close.

Apple can, and does, charge what they want and what the market will bear. You may not like it but I seriously doubt Apple cares how you feel about pricing. Apple has been charging what they charge for upgrades for years and it is apparently working. Microsoft charges the same for upgrades to their Surface products.

Apple is a publicly traded company. They have a fiduciary responsibility to their stockholders. Apple charges what they charge to make money for them, and for the stockholders. It seems to be working in spite of people complaining about the prices.

I don't like the cost for upgrades when purchasing a vehicle. I don't like the cost for upgrades to prescription lenses. I don't like the cost for premium hearing aids as there are cheaper, and inferior, alternatives. I don't like the cost to get a a soft drink at a restaurant when the same drink can be purchased for $0.50 at a grocery store. But it is what it is and all those are companies are free to charge what they want and what they think the market will support.

If you don't like the prices, purchase elsewhere. That is how free enterprise works. No one is forcing you to purchase Apple products. Beyond that all you are doing is complaining to yourself.

 

[raythompsontn]

I personally don't want to switch to Windows, but staying with Apple has become increasingly stressful

So why are you subjecting yourself to this level of stress when it is unnecessary? Move on to another platform and be happy. Buy a Windows desktop. Buy your own components and build your own. I did. Yet I still have a Mac. Paid for upgrades. I find no stress at all in my decisions.

 

[colonelbutt]

I'm curious why.

just because I think it takes resources. I prefer to have apps that are natively programmed

 

[ignatius345]

I think you disingenuously avoided the whole point being discussed.

Not really.

 

[ignatius345]

Sounds like you wasted a pile of money on a laptop way beyond your needs. If this is going to become an argument about how satisfied you are with 8 GB then how much more could you have saved going for a comparative Windows laptop for only $400 USD?

You're completely full of ****. Windows is terrible and doesn't integrate with the other Apple products I own. I've been buying Macs since the early 1990s, my man.

You clearly haven't been reading our complaints, because it's not that people can't get along with only 8 GB, it's that Apple is charging outrageous prices on cheap components. All Apple machines are top-notch in most everything, but when it comes to RAM and Storage... they decide to go it cheap. The question here isn't whether 8 GB extra is worth $200 USD to the customer, as it's obviously not to many people. It's whether a more reasonable $24 USD to increase the specs on a computer costing over $1k USD is worth it. This is a high-end estimate of what Apple spends towards a 16 GB upgrade.

THIS is our argument, that Apple should not be keeping their specs artificially low for the purpose of price gouging.

Yeah, at the same time the entry level MacBook has been about $1000 for well over a decade. Mac prices have basically plummeted when you factor in inflation. The $200 you're all whinging endlessly about is really not very much money for RAM that's integrated right onto the SOC, but that's not going to stop your whining, I'm sure The entry-level 8GB configuration is very very usable for a lot of people. The rest of this is just noise.

 

[6749974]

Yeah, at the same time the entry level MacBook has been about $1000 for well over a decade. Mac prices have basically plummeted when you factor in inflation. The $200 you're all whinging endlessly about is really not very much money for RAM that's integrated right onto the SOC, but that's not going to stop your whining, I'm sure The entry-level 8GB configuration is very very usable for a lot of people. The rest of this is just noise.

RAM is even cheaper for Apple because its integrated (less electronics to pay for). Apple likely pays $3-$4 and then charges $200. But thats not the end of the problem. Apple doesn't provide 16 GB options as defaults—you have to customize at Apple.com for the most part—so people who want to buy 16 GB are really paying $400 more because the 8 GB models are $200 off. It makes people feel foolish for paying $400 for something that really costs $3.

Just because you don't feel the same way, doesn't mean its wrong. You're both right. Its foolish paying $200 or $400 for an additional 8 GB of RAM—when it costs Apple only $3-$4 in component fees—but overall, once you get past the pain of payment, you'll enjoy the laptop, and the overall price is lower than it was a decade ago, if you account for inflation. So it all depends on how you look at it.

Why are we fighting about this anyway? Why can't we see all perspectives, instead of our own?

 

[Agincourt]

You're completely full of ****. Windows is terrible and doesn't integrate with the other Apple products I own. I've been buying Macs since the early 1990s, my man.


Yeah, at the same time the entry level MacBook has been about $1000 for well over a decade. Mac prices have basically plummeted when you factor in inflation. The $200 you're all whinging endlessly about is really not very much money for RAM that's integrated right onto the SOC, but that's not going to stop your whining, I'm sure The entry-level 8GB configuration is very very usable for a lot of people. The rest of this is just noise.

I don't appreciate you assuming to know my thoughts better than I do. You forget that price decreases apply to all tech companies, not just Apple. By the exact same logic Windows PC's have likewise plummeted when taking inflation into account, but many continue to use modular RAM and storage. Also it has been demonstrated countless times that Apple RAM costs at least 10x that of modules you buy off Amazon, thus we've every right to complain... and so should you.

If you're happy enough with only 8 GB for what you paid for... then I'm glad for you. However if you were to realize Apple deliberately withheld an upgrade costing them less than $10 USD on a non upgradable component they built in specifically for price gouging? You don't even realize how stunted your machine was made all so that Apple could save <$10 USD in manufacturing. And I'm baffled as to why customers fight so hard to defend a trillion dollar company all so that you end up paying more for less. Why would you desire your computer have only 8 GB instead of 16 for the same price?

 

[raythompsontn]

Apple doesn't provide 16 GB options as defaults—you have to customize at Apple.com for the most part

Yes, Apple does. I got my 16 GB Air at the Apple Store two hours after I ordered. It was in stock. Amazing!

 

[6749974]

Yes, Apple does. I got my 16 GB Air at the Apple Store two hours after I ordered. It was in stock. Amazing!

(I’m glad you got the model you wanted so quickly).

It's an open secret with us Mac nerdsl that Apple tends to have low stock of an “ultimate model” for every product line; which they do not advertise on the website, and often if you go into the store and ask, employees will deny it because they don't even know about it themselves.

In the case of the MacBook Air, the ultimate model they carry is a 10c GPU, 16 GB RAM, 1 TB model that costs $1800. But that is not the official models they provide retail partners, meaning if you go to Costco, Amazon, Best Buy, and other retail centers around the world—where a majority of Macs are sold—you're always going to find these two models:

• 8 GB RAM, 256 GB storage
• 8 GB RAM, 512 GB storage

And it's those two models that get discounted $200 off during sales, which are quite frequent.

(Sometimes Best Buy will have a 16 GB model and it will be on sale, but its rare and very specific, like only a 15-inch M2 Air with 16/1TB and it has to be Midnight Blue colored)

My point stands—you can get a base model M2 Air for $200 off but if you want to spec it up to 16 GB, you're usually going to have to visit Apple.com and pay an additional $200 which means you're paying $400 more than anyone else for a simple addition of 8 GB RAM that costs Apple only $3 or whatever; and that feels foolish to do.

 

[raythompsontn]

But that is not the official models they provide retail partners, meaning if you go to Costco, Amazon, Best Buy, and other retail centers around the world—where a majority of Macs are sold

Retailers order what sells, the most popular models. I doubt Apple is forcing those models on retailers. Retailers having sales are to move excess inventory and in the process take reduced profit. As for me I get a veteran discount from Apple which always exceeds sales from retailers.

B&H Photo has the 16 GB Air for $200.00 off. A person can find sales on configurations beyond the base configuration if they know where to look. No need to visit Apple.com.

 

[geta]

Retailers order what sells, the most popular models. I doubt Apple is forcing those models on retailers. Retailers having sales are to move excess inventory and in the process take reduced profit. As for me I get a veteran discount from Apple which always exceeds sales from retailers.

B&H Photo has the 16 GB Air for $200.00 off. A person can find sales on configurations beyond the base configuration if they know where to look. No need to visit Apple.com.

It’s very rare retailers having BTO options for sale on their shelf.