My office wants a "legitimate" reason for buying Apple or Dell

Stuntcar

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Apr 21, 2010
5
0
Hi,
My employer is asking for reasons why I could possibly want to use an iMac in the office and MacBook Pro for international travel. I have to provide the reasons in writing by Tuesday or am being "migrated" back to Dell! WTF! :eek:

I was thinking this is easy. I've been using Apple gear for years, have an iMac at home, have been using a G4 MBP (it has just died - God bless its silicon heart) for over 5 years. So why are they even asking such a stupid question. I guess new IT manager has to prove herself somehow. Anyway ...

I have to provide reasons why the current Dell standard desktop model is not appropriate. Currently I have - use of Keynote, experience with MacSpeech Dictate.

Can anyone think of anything else? My brain is melting over this as I can not even comprehend why this question would be asked. Issue could be that IT Support has never had to do anything for me before the "Mac Laptop" died.

Any help out there?

Sc
 

macguy78

macrumors member
Apr 15, 2010
50
3
Chicago
Hi,
My employer is asking for reasons why I could possibly want to use an iMac in the office and MacBook Pro for international travel. I have to provide the reasons in writing by Tuesday or am being "migrated" back to Dell! WTF! :eek:

I was thinking this is easy. I've been using Apple gear for years, have an iMac at home, have been using a G4 MBP (it has just died - God bless its silicon heart) for over 5 years. So why are they even asking such a stupid question. I guess new IT manager has to prove herself somehow. Anyway ...

I have to provide reasons why the current Dell standard desktop model is not appropriate. Currently I have - use of Keynote, experience with MacSpeech Dictate.

Can anyone think of anything else? My brain is melting over this as I can not even comprehend why this question would be asked. Issue could be that IT Support has never had to do anything for me before the "Mac Laptop" died.

Any help out there?

Sc
good luck with this one. I am an IT manager and use a mac for personal use, but it can be a pain supporting them for others in our office. I realize this is somewhat hypocritical but fairly typical in the corporate community.

my 0.02
 

macguy78

macrumors member
Apr 15, 2010
50
3
Chicago
Hi,
My employer is asking for reasons why I could possibly want to use an iMac in the office and MacBook Pro for international travel. I have to provide the reasons in writing by Tuesday or am being "migrated" back to Dell! WTF! :eek:

I was thinking this is easy. I've been using Apple gear for years, have an iMac at home, have been using a G4 MBP (it has just died - God bless its silicon heart) for over 5 years. So why are they even asking such a stupid question. I guess new IT manager has to prove herself somehow. Anyway ...

I have to provide reasons why the current Dell standard desktop model is not appropriate. Currently I have - use of Keynote, experience with MacSpeech Dictate.

Can anyone think of anything else? My brain is melting over this as I can not even comprehend why this question would be asked. Issue could be that IT Support has never had to do anything for me before the "Mac Laptop" died.

Any help out there?

Sc
Since I have already given you my disclaimer, here is my advice for the IT manager. Just tell her that you have been using MAC OS for years and that if you had to learn a new OS (assuming windows), it is going to be really difficult for you. There are probably services that IT offers that is difficult to support for the mac. Just tell her that you understand that their standard dells are more compatible with the network and the IT staff can better support them. If you work remotely, you may be able to get away with it, but if your office is anything like mine, there are politics involved. She may be concerned if others see you with your yummy mac, then others may follow suite. If you can strike a deal, ensure her that you won't tell others if this is possible.
 

Hellhammer

Moderator emeritus
Dec 10, 2008
22,164
581
Finland
Just tell him that you're not familiar with Windows and don't really like it. You've been using Macs for years and are very familiar with them so you get your work done with Macs better than with PC.

Ask him why should you migrate to Windows
 

stridemat

Moderator
Staff member
Apr 2, 2008
11,212
639
UK
For a start OS X has 'less' that can go wrong with it. In a business environment it is much more robust, easy to maintain and secure.
 

macguy78

macrumors member
Apr 15, 2010
50
3
Chicago
For a start OS X has 'less' that can go wrong with it. In a business environment it is much more robust, easy to maintain and secure.
somewhat agree with you. However, in a business environment, easy to maintain and secure are relative terms - it is relative to the IT staff responsible for maintaining and securing them.
 

Stuntcar

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Apr 21, 2010
5
0
Speechless

I understand the issues with enterprise management but it is a purely political issue. I've never been on the IT radar. They've never seen me, even for application upgrades. I just pick up the disks and go. Strange thing is the enterprise standard mobile phone is the iPhone!
I am just boggled by why IT management wan to make my business theirs.
Give me my MacBook and go away.
Sc
 

Abstract

macrumors Penryn
Dec 27, 2002
24,418
124
Location Location Location
somewhat agree with you. However, in a business environment, easy to maintain and secure are relative terms - it is relative to the IT staff responsible for maintaining and securing them.
Exactly. The reasons will depend on the situation, which depends on your job.

I work at a hospital. At the hospital, every single computer, on every desk, in every department has Win XP SP2 installed. Also, Office 2003 is loaded. Why? In order to guarantee compatibility between all departments at the hospital. Furthermore, if there's going to be a computer issue, IT have eliminated the possibility of the issue being related to incompatibility between the OS settings and the network, differences in drivers, etc etc, and will look elsewhere for problems. It's just easier to manage if there are a lot of employees and computers.

Furthermore, some of our software costs $100,000, and has received a guarantee that the software is certified for medical use by both the company itself, and the FDA equivalent here in Australia. This means that software dependability and performance is guaranteed for a specific OS and hardware configuration. In fact, the companies who provide us with critical software usually include the hardware to go with it. It's easier for them to provide technical support if they know every customer has identical hardware components and drivers.


You may work for a more typical business where things can be much more lax. However, from an IT point of view, I can't fault IT for HOPING to have every computer be similar to manage, as it's much easy for them to set up, trouble-shoot, etc.


If you want them to let you get a Mac for work, I think the best way is to argue:

- Your familiarity with Macs, including troubleshooting (embellish your mad skills if you must).

- Far superior battery life, screen size and resolution, and size and weight for working on the road when compared to nearly all other laptops on the market.

- Bootcamp allows you to run Windows natively if you need to.


I can't think of any other good reasons.
 

telecomm

macrumors 65816
Nov 30, 2003
1,372
8
Rome
I've also worked in environments where this came up, and one coworker (who had already dealt with this question) replied with "I'm x% more productive using a Mac."

I think this is better than going with (the seemingly equivalent) "I don't know how to Windows." It just isn't that difficult to work with a different OS. :D
 

inkswamp

macrumors 68030
Jan 26, 2003
2,740
709
somewhat agree with you. However, in a business environment, easy to maintain and secure are relative terms - it is relative to the IT staff responsible for maintaining and securing them.
I'm a system admin for a mixed Mac and PC environment (running on a Windows 2003 network) and I've found there's no substantive difference in managing the security and maintenance of either platform. I've found that most IT personnel use that excuse to shield themselves from learning how to admin a Mac. In fact, I could make some compelling arguments for both security and maintenance as to why the Dells should be thrown out.

To the OP remember this: the IT staff is not there to dictate to you what you can use. They are there to support you and the tools you need to get your work done. 90% of the time, when an IT staffer argues that something is not appropriate for the workplace, they are being lazy and trying to force you into what they're comfortable with. There's no excuse for that. Make a reasonable case to them first. Ask to see policies about what kind of workstations can or cannot be used. If the policy doesn't exist, they have no reason to argue against it. If they refuse still then go above them and make your case to whomever up the management chain needs to hear it. If your productivity would be improved on a Mac, they have no reason to deny your request.
 

mac8867

macrumors 6502
Apr 5, 2010
457
22
Saint Augustine, FL
I am a former CIO and had an end user client install base of over 2500 desktops, with 4 dedicated help desk/support personnel. The only macs I allowed (and I am a personal mac lover) were for the marketing department.

Here is the problem: training and operating a company with a large number of clients can only work if there are standards in place. The Mac OS is non-standard, and your director is looking at doubling her training costs (for example) just to support you, 1 user. It doesn't make sense. The list of reasons goes on an on forever.

My advice: Do not Argue the merits of Mac OS with her, do not even try to argue the supportability angle - you will lose the argument. Not because you would be wrong, but she already has the answers to anything you come up with.

Here is your only hope: Offer to run a "Standard" desktop install as a virtual machine in VM Ware. Do NOT offer parallels, not that there is anything wrong with parallels, it's just VM Ware is wide spread outside the Mac World and will give her comfort. This has worked for others at very large fortune 500 companies.
 

gnasher729

macrumors P6
Nov 25, 2005
16,957
3,855
good luck with this one. I am an IT manager and use a mac for personal use, but it can be a pain supporting them for others in our office. I realize this is somewhat hypocritical but fairly typical in the corporate community.
The usual way supporting them is: No support given, no support needed. Saves the company a lot of money.

I am a former CIO and had an end user client install base of over 2500 desktops, with 4 dedicated help desk/support personnel. The only macs I allowed (and I am a personal mac lover) were for the marketing department.

Here is the problem: training and operating a company with a large number of clients can only work if there are standards in place. The Mac OS is non-standard, and your director is looking at doubling her training costs (for example) just to support you, 1 user. It doesn't make sense. The list of reasons goes on an on forever.
Your kind is dying out. Today, your attitude will count against you in most organisations. In five or ten years time, it will make you unemployable. Your customers are not there to support you, you are there to support your customers.
 

gnasher729

macrumors P6
Nov 25, 2005
16,957
3,855
I work at a hospital. At the hospital, every single computer, on every desk, in every department has Win XP SP2 installed. Also, Office 2003 is loaded. Why? In order to guarantee compatibility between all departments at the hospital. Furthermore, if there's going to be a computer issue, IT have eliminated the possibility of the issue being related to incompatibility between the OS settings and the network, differences in drivers, etc etc, and will look elsewhere for problems. It's just easier to manage if there are a lot of employees and computers.
Headline at theregister: "NHS computers hit by voracious, data-stealing worm".

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/23/nhs_worm_infection/

I have to provide reasons why the current Dell standard desktop model is not appropriate.
You are using a Macintosh already? In that case there is substantial training cost, there is substantial cost for replacing all your software, there is substantial cost buying the Dell computer, installing it and replace the Macintosh, and there will be continued loss of productivity.

Write these items down, put a dollar value at each item. Add up the numbers and that is how much switching to the standard Dell desktop model would cost.
 

Xenophon

macrumors regular
Apr 8, 2010
131
0
New Delhi, India
Your kind is dying out. Today, your attitude will count against you in most organisations. In five or ten years time, it will make you unemployable. Your customers are not there to support you, you are there to support your customers.
Don't agree with you there. Unless there's a compelling business need to make an exception or if you're working in a really small company it makes no sense to allow different platforms, the bottom line just doesn't work. Imagine an entire company working with MS office business (including access) and a couple of lone rangers wanting to do things on a mac and asking for filemaker.
 

mikes63737

macrumors 65816
Jul 26, 2005
1,133
310
- Far superior battery life, screen size and resolution, and size and weight for working on the road when compared to nearly all other laptops on the market.
Screen size and resolution on Mac laptops is superior to everything? I can get 1920x1200 on a Dell 15" laptop. It's only available on the 17" MBP

You are using a Macintosh already? In that case there is substantial training cost, there is substantial cost for replacing all your software, there is substantial cost buying the Dell computer, installing it and replace the Macintosh, and there will be continued loss of productivity.
If the OP is working for a large company, there is probably very little cost for the machine, if any, because they could already have spares sitting around. Also, software fees could be very low because of site licensing, etc.

Honestly though, the IT department might have already made up their minds but just want to make it look like they are considering your needs.
 

thejadedmonkey

macrumors G3
May 28, 2005
8,146
1,108
Pennsylvania
Your best bet is to explain that you're already using one. Having tried to integrate OS X into a business network, I can personally attest to how messy and unstable it is.

I would just want to ad, that from an IT perspective, I would choose Dell over Apple any day, as Dell provides next-day on site service, and MS provides some of the fastest security updates of any software company. Additionally, if your company is quite large, they probably have a contract with Dell that gives them added perks that Apple does not provide.
 

macsmurf

macrumors 65816
Aug 3, 2007
1,199
769
As others have mentioned it is in no way unreasonable for the company to demand this of you. It is simply not good business to support yet another OS for the sake of one guy. The only reasonable way for the company is to provide no support.

A compromise could be to run a managed Windows VM.

At my company, the accepted choices are Windows and Linux. I bought my macbook myself and am not allowed to connect it to the company network due to security reasons. Failure to comply with the company policy is grounds for dismissal, which I happily ignore. However, if something were to go wrong I run some risk of being fired.

As a software developer I feel I can support my own system and that the rules don't apply to me which is, of course, rather arrogant. That's programmers for you. :)
 

chrono1081

macrumors 604
Jan 26, 2008
7,675
1,823
Isla Nublar
I didn't read the whole thread so this may have already been said but...(and this is all coming from someone (me) who works in IT).

1. Dells are unreliable and require lots of maintenance. There are 6 on my desk I received in the past hour. No clue where people get the idea dells are good but they are brand new and are requiring more maintenance then the 6 - 8 year old HP NC600's!

2. Dell will not honor repair work if the need for repairs occur internationally (like your traveling and your videocard goes bad). Trust me I know all about that one too! They wont even fix it under warranty, in another country that is counted as US soil (like a military base). Trust me I know ALL about that.

3. Macs will run everything, including windows.

4. Macs require much less maintenance.

5. Macs are generally faster. I know ours are.

6. Im not sure what programs you use but you may be able to use that as leverage.

I may be a little bitter at dell at the moment after the warranty issues (as stated above) as well as the stream of broken dells that flood my office daily, but that is my take on it.
 

nefan65

macrumors 65816
Apr 15, 2009
1,354
14
Your best bet is to explain that you're already using one. Having tried to integrate OS X into a business network, I can personally attest to how messy and unstable it is.

I would just want to ad, that from an IT perspective, I would choose Dell over Apple any day, as Dell provides next-day on site service, and MS provides some of the fastest security updates of any software company. Additionally, if your company is quite large, they probably have a contract with Dell that gives them added perks that Apple does not provide.
How messy it can be? You must have network issues. Again, another OLD arguement. I'm an IT Manager for a medium sized Medical Group. There are NO oases using a Mac on a properly configured network, because I DO! Office documents are easily shared, I connect to the Domain, and easily access drives and applications.

Stop using 1990 Logic for incompatible systems in 2010; it's not true...
 

steviem

macrumors 68020
May 26, 2006
2,218
3
New York, Baby!
Maybe she is trying to get an idea of what is being used in the company and working on how to get her resources into a position of being able to support you.

Reasoning that Macs don't need support is utter bullcrap.

They'll need support, but even with Remote login, you can fix most problems (provided you have some UNIX knowledge).

But this is the problem.

Most companies get Dell machines because the 3 year on site support contract is at a really cheap price. Applecare is the thing that needs improvement.

Also IT Managers, whilst I wouldn't say are lazy, like to have as much simplicity in the procurement and management of their assets. Then the most important thing, is they have the Finance Director on their back and the bottom line is what matters for these people every time.

You could use the cost of argument, but remember to include EVERY little purchase you can think of.

-The initial cost of the hardware
-The RAM/HD upgrades if you didn't BTO
-Productivity software
-Antivirus software
-If they're using Exchange, if they're using 2003 they may be reluctant to upgrading to 2007 or 2010 just for macs. Remember that Entourage has MANY issues and is by no means a Mac version of Outlook

All that said. I'd much rather work in a Mac only (or Mac and Open Source) environment than Windows only. My only chance would be to get into a company very early when they don't have an infrastructure in place, or get into a media company already using Macs
 

mdatwood

macrumors 6502a
Mar 14, 2010
710
278
East Coast, USA
I've found that most IT personnel use that excuse to shield themselves from learning how to admin a Mac. In fact, I could make some compelling arguments for both security and maintenance as to why the Dells should be thrown out.
It's a cost issue. If a company has 30k PCs and the infrastructure to support them why do they need to train their admins in order to support a few Macs? It makes no sense from a business standpoint unless the Mac brings something to the table that the PC doesn't.

Your kind is dying out. Today, your attitude will count against you in most organisations. In five or ten years time, it will make you unemployable. Your customers are not there to support you, you are there to support your customers.
No, his kind are making smart business decisions. See above that it's mainly a cost issue.

If you really want to build out the proper way to manage Macs in a large enterprise environment then you're also looking at building out a lot of parallel infrastructure. SUS server for instance allows IT to manage which Windows updates get pushed to clients. This gives IT time to test updates and make sure they will not break critical programs. A parallel OSX server would also have to be setup and now managed in order to accomplish the same tasks for the Macs on the network.

In large companies it's not as simple as people think.
 

trip1ex

macrumors 68000
Jan 10, 2008
1,999
363
If viruses hit then your Mac isn't going to need support. That's an advantage.

If you run into an OSX compatibility problem you won't need immediate assistance because you can boot up into Windows worst case and use your Mac as any old Windows pc.

Keynote allows you to make unique presentations that stand out because everyone else is using PowerPoint.

Consumer Reports shows the reliability of Apple desktops to be best in class.
 

mingoglia

macrumors 6502
Dec 10, 2009
447
8
I too would steer clear of Mac's for corporate use, except in smaller departments such as marketing (like another poster said). The larger the corporation the more I'd steer clear. I too am a CTO and a relative long time (well, since OSX) Mac user myself. I'm really not going to get into the reasons on this forum as it's really not worth the effort and will likely turn into someone calling me a Windows Fanboy or something like that. Until you've supported very very large deployments of machines you'll never "get it".
 

miles01110

macrumors Core
Jul 24, 2006
19,261
31
The Ivory Tower (I'm not coming down)
If you run into an OSX compatibility problem you won't need immediate assistance because you can boot up into Windows worst case and use your Mac as any old Windows pc.
Hollow argument here. If you "can boot up into Windows" when there's a problem (????) you don't need a Mac in the first place.

I don't really see any compelling argument for using an Apple/OS X machine if you company is a Dell/Windows company. Browsing the internet, checking e-mail, making presentations, and typing up Word documents aren't that different on either platform. Deal with it.
 
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